Ray

Well then ask God about that. He can even tell you the truth about the truth. :)

Want some more good news, Desire'? You didn't lie. It's the church of Jesus Christ, and His saintS. :) Or in other words... It's not your Dad's church (even if he's a saint) because it belongs to our Lord and ALL His saints... ... or at least all that are in these latter days. :)

so in that sense you don't care about what he things or much about what he does.Or in other words, when I said I didn't (and I still don't) care about Josh's thoughts, or actions, I meant that I did not and do not and will not care enough to base any of my own thoughts, or actions, upon any thoughts or actions of Josh.Sure, I'll converse with him, and share what I think, and I'll listen if Josh shares what Josh thinks, but the only thoughts I'll choose to become my own thoughts are the thoughts that I know are from God. p.s. And btw, that means that if Josh tried to "hurt" me, or tried to "help" me, his thoughts or his actions wouldn't affect me, because I'd do what I knew God wanted from me, regardless of what he, or others, did. implying that he doesn't know what is true or false. And you have hope that someday he will. Heh, there you go getting all off again. I was NOT implying that thought... whatever you choose to think.Do you know "implications" are a lot like "assumptions"? And I'm not, but you are, well, you know what. Or in other words, I was simply asking some questions, some questions that I wanted Josh to think about, and if Josh had then thought of what I then had thought of, he would have then known who to learn from. By knowing when I know what God knows is true and false, and knowing what Josh knows about God. :)

Sorry to have to disagree with you, Sweetie Pie (I'm not flirting, just trying to be cute). All truth comes from God. We learn truth from God. Each and every thought that is true. And btw, I think you're pretty cute too. :) COOL! I AM CUTE! (I get that alot actually... but I love hearing it anyway!!!!) *thinking about your post* I think it depends on the view you look at it from. Like... we have a little more knowledge about how things are because of God, but someone maybe "Seeking truth" may think differently. Also, I took a psychology (sp?) class, and basically learned (not attached to religion, so I thought this one through ALOT, and still have no real conclusion.... so I am just throwing this out there) that truth is "what is accepted among a group of people". I would come up with an example, but my dad shot my only good one down by saying that it was a myth that people thought the earth was flat... and I feel under pressure. lol. I will get back with an example.. btw.. that was the point of view given by my teacher, not me. Okay. Thank you for the clarification. I guess I should take this up with your teacher. Or maybe you could just tell him/her for me, that truth is not: "what is accepted among a group of people" ...at least not if they don't accept the truth. Truth is simply what is, and what was, and what will be. That's it. That is truth. Truth does not depend on what people think. Truth is what it is regardless. I wonder who taught that teacher.

Thank you, Brother Dorsey. I like how you think. Now where did I put those gold stars. And btw, POEM day's over. Thanks to all who contributed. I'm going home now, to Mars.

I just wanted to say I love EVERYONE here... ... and I do enjoy learning ABOUT ALL OF YOU!!!

Sorry to have to disagree with you, Sweetie Pie (I'm not flirting, just trying to be cute).All truth comes from God. We learn truth from God. Each and every thought that is true. And btw, I think you're pretty cute too. :)

untrue statement Ray. There are a lot of truth that come from people that do not know God. "Water is wet" for example. God doesn't have to tell you that. Dr. T No, it's still true, you simply misunderstood what I meant... and what I know to be true.All of us know God to a certain extent... whether we realize that fact or not... and the extent to which we know Him is the extent to which we know truth... because ALL truth comes ONLY from God. And btw, whether you know it or not, you pray to God more than you realize. Anytime you want to know a truth, and accept what is true, you have accepted what God told you was truth. Or in other words, nobody knows a truth because they have chosen to believe what Satan and others through his influence told them. We only know truth by relying on God and the messages He gives us through His influence. Be still, and know who is God.

... or in other words, Dr. T. feels pretty sure that conversion does NOT happen to "on-fire believers" of various <religious> groups. Isn't that right, Dr. T? (no matter what he says, that is what he meant) And my response to that statement??? I know it's a lie. And now I'll share how I know that truth. I was "on-fire" before I joined this church, and I had already done lots of preaching, (that's what "on-fire believers" do, you know) and I attended all the services that I could. And I was getting prepared to follow the footsteps of my fathers (Dad and Granddad) into a full-time ministry of preaching for that church... to share the gospel of the Jesus Christ, of course. So there, I AM PROOF, that you what you just said is false... whether you know it now or ever will know it! Nah nah nah nah nah. p.s. Don't worry, Doc, you will recover. :)

That's because it is. I'm just stating facts. I've seen people answering you quite well, and watched you dance around the answers because they don't fit your agenda. You don't want any "answers"; your mind was made up before you came here. It's hard to avoid the fact that EricM's post on the first page contained links that answer every one of "your" questions. http://www.fairlds.org/apol Read the links on my site for your answers. There's more than enough there to satisfy you. B) Sometimes I think I should post a lot less to see what some others will say... there are lots of good posts on this website... and sometimes I think I should post what I think because nobody has posted what I think... only God knows who would if I didn't... and sometimes I think that I should just say that God is there to bare what is the truth... there is nobody here who can bear what is truth without love for God and what He tells them. It's a dilemna, sometimes, but it's still a lot of fun to see what gets posted when it's good. :)

YES.OH, do you want me to pay you? When I joined this church I was neither inactive inactive, nor disgruntled, nor going through a crisis for which my faith <from God> was somehow inadequate, and I've known LOTS of members who felt like I did before they became members of this church. Now, sure, you could make a pretty case that I haven't asked enough people, because all who I've known are only a few thousand of the 13+ million members that are in this church, but I feel pretty sure you're not right. I think most who joined this church from the other religions simply wanted more truth than they had before, and we have more truth because we have more of what God has now given to all the world.

NO. YES. Yes, that was amusing. Let's see how long you can keep it up. :) Although you are almost as good! So close I amost think you are the same people... you mean...from people who argee with you.... Josh yawn. Oh my. I must be getting tired. Good night. :)

Heh, you too, Desire'. You are tooooooo easy to love. :)And btw, Josh, before I say good night, I'll pray you'll seek knowledge from God. :)

Thanks Josh. I'll look into this... even more than I have already.I still think Hugh Nibley knew some truth about this, and I really liked reading his book :) I wasn't saying they didn't belong to him either, but they don't look like they were the right ones. :)

From page 8... Okay, let me get this straight.Some Egyptologists thought the rediscovered papyrus should like what they thought it should look like, they found a papyrus that didn't look like what they were expecting to find, and you're wondering why the Church still publishes Joseph Smith's translation of the papyrus as the Book of Abraham in light of the fact that the papyrus they found didn't look like what those Egyptologists thought it should look like? Is that right? First of all, how do they know it's the same papyrus??? And if the "rediscovered" papyrus doesn't look like what those Egyptologists thought it should look like, why do they think the papyrus they "rediscovered" was the same one Joseph translated? Oh. Here's a thought: maybe they didn't "rediscover" the right one? If it's not what they were expecting to find, maybe it's NOT the one they were expecting? That's it! I'm a genius! You can bow. I will stand. Where's my prize?

Yes, I'd like to see is the text itself from the "Book of Breathings". I'm not going to simply believe someone who suggests the idea that some text translated as "pool" by one person, or group of people, Joseph Smith translated as something other than "pool" without seeing that text for myself and understanding what it REALLY is saying, because for all I know, ALL OF YOU could be wrong. At this moment I have a simple testimony from God assuring me that what is written in the Book of Abraham is true... or in other words, that what is written did really happen and what's written was written by Abraham. And as I said, I heard that from God, Himself. And btw, instead of trying to reproduce the complete texts on this website, it would be fine with me if you would simply reference a specific source where I can find the information... preferable a source that is on the web with "helps" to interpret the evidence. Thank you. :)

Okay, I think you are saying:#1. Joseph Smith claimed the "Book of Abraham" was a translation of the papyrus that was preserved and passed down from first-century A.D. which is now known as the "Book of Breathings" #2. Some other people have now translated the papyrus Joseph once had, that same old papyrus, and they have translated it differently than the writings which are now known as the "Book of Abraham" And I think you are asking: HOW or WHY don't they both agree, and HOW do we know WHAT is true??? If that's not what you're asking, and it's not what you're saying, please feel free to be more specific. I'll now proceed to give you my thoughts about what I think you had in mind. First, let's back up a little and compare the writings themselves, shall we? I'd like to see how they are different. Pick one place to start, show both of the writings, and then show how ONE is the truth. Okay? :) And btw, please try to show how is this different than comparing what is taught from the Bible. There are HUNDREDS of religions that preach what is true, and they are all using the Bible. And each version of the Bible is a little different from the others. Are you thinking of something like this??? FYI, I know the Egyptians knew about a life after this life, and I also know their knowledge was corrupted, but I also know they were once taught by Abraham in Egypt, and he had true knowledge of the gospel.

So I sought what God has to say, through his Son, Jesus Christ, as recorded by his followers. Here is what I found: Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one. Matthew 7:37 NIV Do you think there's a limit to what YOU can say? Do YOU only say "Yes" and "No"? I know that you don't. You typed a whole sentence! Thank God you have some of His wisdom. :)

Are you asking me to explain WHY the papyrus that Joseph Smith claimed to have translated was once included in a first-century A.D. collection of writings known as "The Book of Breathings", or HOW it came to be given to Joseph???I'm not really sure if that's what you're asking, but I'm willing to answer those questions. I don't know the WHY of why that papyrus was once in the "Book of Breathings". I simply know that the Book of Abraham is a record of what actually happened. One can guess the papyrus was passed on to others, after Abraham wrote it originally, and once it was in the "Book of Breathings", and then later it once was with Joseph. And btw, if that wasn't what you were asking, please feel free to be more specific. :)

Yes. That is right. I never said I trusted Joseph Smith, at least not before I knew He was a prophet of God... and even then I only trusted Joseph Smith because I knew God had spoken through Joseph.Why is that hard to understand??? Do you trust that what the person named "Paul" wrote in the Bible was actually inspired by God, because your trust is in "Paul"??? When God inspires His servants, and they speak for Him, then those people are acting as God. Read D&C 1. There's a scripture in there where our Lord was saying it' the same, when His servants are speaking for Him.

Josh, If you want my help, you're going to have to work with me, and I asked you to avoid that question. I'm not interested in discussing what "anti-mormons" have said all along, and I'm not even interested in what "anti-mormons" said and continue to say about the Book of Abraham. I want to know what YOU think about that book, and I want ONE question at a time. Okay? Let's try this again. Pick one scroll, and one question you have about that scroll, to explain to me what you mean. And please be as specific as possible. Thank you. :)

Sorry to have to answer your question with a question, but:What do you mean??? I think the scrolls DO appear to say what Joseph Smith claimed they did. Why don't you think they do??? oops, nevermind that one... that last question, I mean. Let's try this approach... Pick one scroll, and one question you have about that scroll, to explain to me what you mean. And please be as specific as possible. Thank you. :)

I always do listen, and I always pay attention.And I know Who to hear, and believe. But if you expect me to think YOU are the one, I know I won't cry when you leave. :) Sing it:thump... thump... thump... another one bites the dust. ... and another one's gone... ... and another one's gone... ... another one bites the dust...

And I never did say that it meant that.But do you know who I know who I know knows everything? Why not talk with Him, to chit chat??? :)

Sheesh. Thanks Josh. I thought I'd been rhyming all day.Just ask ONE good question, and I'll give you a direct answer. But think carefully about what you will say. :)