Anti-Depressants - do we really need them?

[Misshalfway]

Do we really need anti-depressants?

I'll tell you what.... After I talk to my MIL, I am sure I need them!

[MormonMama]

You are saying you would give medical advice to someone even though you are not a doctor?

Are you seriously saying that?

Do you have any idea how dangerous that could be?

Yet people do it all the time. If someone asks me if I know anything about a particular medication, I will tell them of my personal experiences, if any. It is up to them if they want to take this "advice" alone or (hopefully) do more research on their own and speak with their doctor.

Most people do ask friends and family first because they want to talk to others who have had experiences with whatever it is they are facing. Then, if they think something might work for them, they go on to ask a doctor for more information. It's simply called information gathering. It's really not that unusual, and people don't seem to be dropping like flies so I don't see how it's all that dangerous either.

I'm pretty sure Hemidakota was not talking about prescribing medications or advising people for or against any of them, just that he wanted to be able to provide some information from people who have used them as a starting point for those who might be considering them. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got from his posts anyway.

[Guest Username-Removed]

Do we really need anti-depressants?

I'll tell you what.... After I talk to my MIL, I am sure I need them!

I got rid of my MIL! Im not sure its the recommended method, but hey! LOL

[RachelleDrew]

There are some who can do meds and personality/behavior/family counseling...but I can't remember if it is psychologist? There might be a difference between a psychologist who can prescribe meds and one who can't. ????

Typically, Psychiatrists prescribe medication while Psychologists deal with therapy and counseling. Some people are certified in both areas, but it's often easier to work in conjunction with a partner to lighten the workload.

[Elphaba]

Thanks for your viewpoint and I do appreciate your candor remarks but I rather rely on the merits of the Spirit here Elph. Something I had learned to do in these situations.

You're welcome, Hemi.

However, I do not understand your comment about relying on the Spirit. You have no spiritual stewardship over these Marines; therefore, you would not be given inspiration about a soldier's mental health, or any other health issue.

It's my understanding the only people who have stewardship over them is their respective bishops; therefore, he would be the only person who would have the power of discernment, and who would receive spiritual inspiration about these men, regardless whether he/she was a member or not.

So how do you feel the Spirit would inspire you about anything regarding these Marines?

Elphaba

[Elphaba]

Most people do ask friends and family first because they want to talk to others who have had experiences with whatever it is they are facing. Then, if they think something might work for them, they go on to ask a doctor for more information.

And what if she doesn’t, based on what you’ve told her.

In fact, what if the medication is exactly what she needs, but she doesn’t pursue it because of your information?

Additionally, are you asking your friends and family about their experiences with a drug so you will know what to say if someone comes to you and asks about it? If not, then your example does not apply.

and people don't seem to be dropping like flies so I don't see how it's all that dangerous either.

Then you have never witnessed a person who is severely depressed, who takes one of these medications, like Prozac, and then has a dysphonic response. When this happens, the person is in danger of suicide or some other manner of hurting him/herself.

Even if the reaction is not that severe, if it is not the right medication, there will still be serious side effects.

No one should ever give advice about these drugs except a doctor, psychiatrist or pharmacist.

or advising people for or against any of them, just that he wanted to be able to provide some information from people who have used them as a starting point for those who might be considering them.

I see. So it would only be a coincidence that one or more of Hemi's Marines come up to him this weekend and ask about Prozac?

Again, Hemi would be seriously negligient if he were to give any advice about the medication.

Hemi should never say anything to someone asking about a medication excpt: “I am not qualified to tell you anything about the medication. However, I think you should see a doctor or psychiatrist right away to see if there is a medicine that will help you.”

Anything else would be irresponsible, negligent, and even dangerous.

Elphaba

[WANDERER]

I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing meds.

If I'm having a general conversation with someone I don't say things like: I'd love to be able to give you the recipe for this, but sorry NO-CAN-DO, I'm not a chef. Although I'm happy to tell them that any recipe advice...oh truly...any advice... from me could be irresponsible, negligent and perhaps even dangerous ; )

Come to think of it: all responsibility, assistance, help or advice should be voided by a legal disclaimer whenever possible...including advice on whether people should talk about meds in conversations. I understand the need for caution..but again I really don't want to see people being afraid to talk about the subject like they were in the past. That's not going to help people.

Nope, I haven't taken any anti-depressants. But I'd hate for my friends and family to feel that they couldn't talk to me about something that was worrying them.

[Tough Grits]

I guess it is a very fine line. I can see both sides.

But coming from the side of almost doing the unthinkable...I would rather tell my story...in the event that it will prevent somebody else from doing the unthinkable.

But I try to only mention my situation and experience when prompted by the Spirit.

Also, I ALWAYS make sure to tell the person to consult with their doctor, and I tell them that just because a certain med works for one person, that does not mean that it will work for another. Some people find the right drug right away, others it takes several attempts before they find the right med and the right dose.

I am very diligent about telling people to talk to their own doctor and more importantly, to follow the Spirit.

But I think conversation is necessary.

Somebody that I love dearly went through a TEN-YEAR depression. From 1972 to 1982, this person suffered horribly. Nobody "talked" about mental illness and such back then. This person's marriage suffered, they suffered, and their children suffered. When circumstances came about that prompted them to come out of their depression...it was as if they were waking from a ten-year long nap.

I wish somebody had risked the consequences and talked to my relative about seeing a doctor or getting on medication or receiving therapy. Ten years is a lot to lose from your life.

I understand this is a sensitive subject.

I don't think anybody can argue with following the promptings of the Spirit. If a friend is in need, or if you simply feel prompted to share what you know or feel...then share! You never know whose life may depend on hearing that it is okay to seek help and treatment.

I was fortunate. I had a husband and family that prayed fervently on my behalf during my break-down, and I had a husband that stood right by my side and encouraged me to do whatever it took to get myself better.

Not everybody has a support system like that.

What if they only nudge they got to seek help or to consider medication came from listening to a friend or reading a post on a forum?

I am not advocating any drug in particular, nor am I telling anybody to avoid any specific drug.

All I am saying, is that if somebody is struggling, and they feel like there is always a black cloud hanging over them, or like they can't seem to find their happiness any more...then get on your knees and pray. Heavenly Father will guide you. It may be to your Bishop, it may be to a friend or to family, and it may be straight to a doctor. But the Spirit will not lead you astray. Just get help.

Don't wait until it is too late.

[RadioactiveWolfboy]

10 years is hard. feeling like you've lost 10 years is worse. Me being bipolar I not only had the mania but some pretty severe depression. When I got on the right meds and snapped out of it, it was like I woke up. I was unmedicated bipolar since I was in 2nd grade or so (early onset bipolar). No one back then knew what was wrong. I was diagnosed about a year after I joined the Church. For me it feels like I lost 30 years of my life. My mom was abusive to me as well so I only remember little bits and pieces of my youth. I finally stopped feeling sorry for myself and just started living and enjoying life. I'm happily married, have a great business, and finishing my degree from college. Sometimes I feel like where has time gone, but it doesn't last but a moment, because if I live up to my covenants, I'll have my family forever, and that is the most important thing to me. 30 years doesn't hold a candle to that. I say this to all out there who think they may be suffering from mental illness, Bipolar, depression, etc... Seek out help. Pray often. You can lead a normal life. Sometimes you have to work for it. Meds work, meds don't work, meds get switched for something you hope works. My daughter has been on almost every med for her bipolar. She's just barely it getting stabelized. She's 17 and been showing symptoms since she was 7 or so. She graduates today at 11 am. Living out of control or with depression can really be hard. You feel like a void is swallowing you up and you can't get out, you can't breath. Depression and mental illness is very real and hard for those with it. I know someone who has depression and is a member. He doesn't take is meds, doesn't come to Church and is very depressed. It's really hard to watch. Depression can pretty much make you helpless. I remember when I was 20, a girlfriend had broken up with me. Everyday for months I would just lay on my bed after work or on a day off and I couldn't function. The feeling that I was worthless, useless, feeling terribly sad, I felt lost and like the life was being siphoned from me. A normal person would've gotten over that break up faster. Mental illness is real, so if you know someone in need, pray for them, talk to them, get them help or get them to seek help. If a non member, try giving a book of Mormon. This Gospel saved me from that life and I'm sure it has others.

Rich

[Tough Grits]

RadioactiveWolfboy,

Thank you so much for sharing such a personal account of your struggles with mental illness.

I consider myself lucky that I only lost two years. My relative lost ten, and if I read correctly, you lost 30. Wow. Indeed I was lucky to have found help so quick and turned around in a relatively quick amount of time. I still have my low days or low spots. There is no way to explain to those who do not understand. Thankfully my husband understands. So does my mother. They know that I do not lie and that I do not enjoy being sick or "low". So, they know that when I say that I am low, that it is bad and that I am doing my very best to cope and to endure.

I agree with you...if not for my faith, I wonder if I would have made it.

I am a convert. What would have held me together before I found the gospel? The gospel is the ONLY thing that kept me from crossing a certain line. The gospel is the only thing that kept me on this side of the veil. That is not trivial. That is huge. It is deep. It is more profound and more sacred to me than I could ever find words to express.

What if there is another who reads our words and feels a ray of hope? What if they can see where others have struggled too and are still fighting the good fight? I feel like I have much more to accomplish before leaving this earth, and if taking meds and seeing a doctor on a regular basis is going to help me do that...then that is exactly what I will do.

Again, thank you for your post. We are not victims...we are survivors. We are fighters. We are not fighting this fight alone. Not even for one minute.

~TG

[Tough Grits]

I have read the following book, and would like to recommend it to anybody suffering with mental illness, or to those who are friends or loved ones of those who do suffer with mental illness:

Valley of Sorrow: A Layman's Guide to Understanding Mental Illness

by Alexander B. Morrison

It can be purchased through Deseret.

Here is the product description located on DesertBook.com:

Writing from the perspective of a father with a close family member who has for many years been afflicted with a chronic mental illness, Alexander B. Morrison writes: "I assure you that Latter-day Saints are in no way exempt from the burden of mental illness, either as victim, caregiver, family member, or friend. In every ward and stake there are severely depressed men and women; elderly people with failing memories and reduced intellectual capacities; youth or adults struggling to escape the dark specter of suicide; persons of all ages, both sexes, and every walk of life, who exhibit aberrant, even bizarre behavior."

Despite such problems, there is hope. In this helpful book, Elder Morrison uses laymen's terms to explain the causes, course, effects, and treatment of such debilitating diseases as anxiety disorders, depression, schizophrenia, and eating disorders. In doing so, he lifts the stigma and dispels the myths and misconceptions so often associated with mental illness.

Recommending a balanced approach to treatment, including prayer, priesthood blessings, professional counseling, and prescribed medication, Elder Morrison offers hope and welcome encouragement to those who suffer from these painful, widely misunderstood, and destructive afflictions.

Published March 2003

Pages: 192

I noticed another book on Deseret Book (I have not read this one):

Matters of the Mind: Latter-day Saint Helps for Mental Illness

by Marleen S. Williams

Here is the product description located on DesertBook.com:

Early and appropriate treatment of mental illness can reduce much suffering for both those who are afflicted and those who love them. Edited by three notable LDS clinical psychologists, this comprehensive resource will help LDS families have a more accurate understanding of mental illness. It includes chapters on anxiety disorders, mood disorders, depression, ADHD, eating disorders, cognitive disorders, and dozens of other mental illnesses. You'll learn how to strengthen spiritual, social, and emotional coping skills, and find out how mental illnesses can be treated and where to find competent help. Also great for Church leaders and others in counseling roles.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW:

I found the following on WebMD:

Psychology vs. Psychiatry: Which Is Better?

Psychology vs. Psychiatry: Which Is Better?

Confused by the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist? WebMD explains who does what and how that affects treatment.

By Martin F. Downs

WebMD Feature

It is a good article. Please click on the link if you do not know the difference between the different types of doctors available to treat those suffering with mental illness.

I would have posted the article here, but I did not want to violate any rules...so to be on the safe side just go to the link.

~TG

[jjrogers]

There are two kinds of depression. One is biochemical and the other is situational. With biochemical depression the medications are very effective. To say someone should eventually stop taking them is like telling me I should just stop wearing my glasses and I should be able to see. (without my glasses I would be considered blind.) There is something wrong with the way the body works. The meds help it work. Post partum falls under this catagory. People who have this kind should be on their meds their whole life. The depression will not go away if they are not on meds. And many people in this catagory are quite suprised at how much better they function on meds.

With Situational depression the meds aren't so helpful. This is the type of depression that people tend to have with divorce or death or other life events. These people could get off meds and not need to be on them after a bit. Usually what is needed here is time and changes in life.

[MormonMama]

Anything else would be irresponsible, negligent, and even dangerous.

So are you telling me that if someone ever asks you a question about a medication that you or someone you know has experience with, you say "No! I can't tell you anything because you might be irresponsible about it!" You NEVER discuss medication of any kind with anyone? That seems rather extreme to me.

I agree with Wanderer. If you can't discuss medications with someone for fear that they will be irresponsible with the information you share, then you can really apply that to anything. We're not talking about someone actually saying, "Yes, I used this and you should too." We're talking about someone saying, "I've had experience with this or know someone who has. Here are those experiences. Perhaps it will work for you, so maybe you should discuss it with your doctor," or "I've had/know people who've had bad experiences with that, so be careful." "Advice" does not mean "must/must no do".

Considering most serious medications must be prescribed by a physician or other medical professional, I don't see how just discussing medications with someone can cause as much harm as you seem to think it could.

[Tough Grits]

I might get pelted by rocks for this...but let me take a HUGE leap here...

Maybe Elphaba meant it in the sense that:

Suppose I had a bad experience with Effexor (I did, although it saved my life). Well, suppose that all a person heard me say was how awful it was..without hearing the positive part...that it saved my life. So, what if they took that information and/or fear of what Effexor would do to them and did not even try it. And what if the decision not to take the drug left them in a worse bind than if they had never heard me talk down on that particular drug.

Elphaba, did that hit the mark..or did I completely miss?

By the way, I have already said that I can see both sides. But I also know that I do share my feelings and experiences when moved by the Spirit to do so.

I believe that Heavenly Father has us go through ordeals sometimes, not just for our own benefit and growth, but maybe to assist and help others as they go through something similar.

Just a thought. Let me know if I need to duck out of the way of hurling rocks!!!!

[abeChristianson]

I had a horrible experience with effexor where I had overdosed on it. I have cyclothimia and it a difficult disease to live with. I also suffer from anxiety and have to take meds for that too. I am on mood stabilizers now and they make it so I am able to function.

[MormonMama]

Suppose I had a bad experience with Effexor (I did, although it saved my life). Well, suppose that all a person heard me say was how awful it was..without hearing the positive part...that it saved my life. So, what if they took that information and/or fear of what Effexor would do to them and did not even try it. And what if the decision not to take the drug left them in a worse bind than if they had never heard me talk down on that particular drug.

While I can see the point you're trying to make, if someone is going to refuse to try something because they overheard one person make a negative comment about it, then that's really that person's issue. Especially when it comes to medication. No one should ever make a final judgment about any medication or medical procedure without talking to a doctor (or maybe even more than one).

I don't think that we need to never, ever discuss anything with others just because someone might get the wrong impression or decide to draw a conclusion based on one snipet of conversation. If that were the case, we wouldn't be able to talk about much of anything. I wouldn't dare say anything about how someone at church treated me badly for fear of keeping someone from joining the church, nor would I dare to say anything good about the church for fear that someone would run out and join it without really investigating it, then become bitter later on because they didn't know what they were getting into. Do you see what I mean?

[Tough Grits]

Yes, and I agree, by the way.

I was just trying to see the other side too. But I am definitely not one to keep my mouth closed...LOL LOL

Especially when it comes to metal illness. I came way too close to a dangerous edge...and if there is anyway that a simple conversation or post can keep another person from getting to where I once was, then I am going to risk having that conversation.

But I still always try to understand other points of view, even if I do not necessarily agree.

But thank you for your post. I think that we are living in a time where it is much more acceptable to talk about mental illness and get help...but sadly, there are still too many who feel embarrassed, ashamed, or just plain scared to seek help.

I can only hope that open, honest, and healthy dialogues such as this thread can only help such people, rather than hurt.

But that is just my opinion!

[Elphaba]

Considering most serious medications must be prescribed by a physician or other medical professional, I don't see how just discussing medications with someone can cause as much harm as you seem to think it could.

Yes, I get that.

Strawmen and red herrings aside, this is not about Church, or any of the other circumstances you described.

This is about Hemi, in an official capacity, giving advice to people under his command about Prozac. Hemi knows absolutely nothing about Prozac; in fact, Hemi knows nothing about anti-depressants period.

Prozac can be a life saving drug. It can also kill.

Depressed people do not think clearly. If Hemi tells his Marines that he knows Prozac is not a good drug, one of them may be severely depressed but convinced by Hemi that anti-depressants don't work.

Is that extreme? Yes, for people who are well. For someone who is genuinely depressed? No, it is not.

Is it worth it to take that chance? I suppose so as long as that Marine is not one of your Marines.

I suspect part of the problem is that you really don't buy that Prozac is THAT dangerous. If so, you are wrong.

Do me a favor. The next time you:

• can't get out of bed for no reason
• feel like you're being sucked under into a terrifying abyss
• are going to hurt yourself
• feel like someone is going to hurt you
• are hearing voices telling you to hurt someone else
• are having hallucinations
• want to die NOW

. . . give Hemi a call. Don't worry, you can wait until someone who really knows what he's talking about can get to you. Except if you can't.

Of course I'm being ridiculous. I'm sure you have people who care about you and would recognize you are ill, even if you couldn't.

Is the true for Hemi's Marines? Who knows, but Hemi should NEVER take that chance.

Elphaba

[Guest Username-Removed]

So are you telling me that if someone ever asks you a question about a medication that you or someone you know has experience with, you say "No! I can't tell you anything because you might be irresponsible about it!" You NEVER discuss medication of any kind with anyone? That seems rather extreme to me.

I agree with Wanderer. If you can't discuss medications with someone for fear that they will be irresponsible with the information you share, then you can really apply that to anything. We're not talking about someone actually saying, "Yes, I used this and you should too." We're talking about someone saying, "I've had experience with this or know someone who has. Here are those experiences. Perhaps it will work for you, so maybe you should discuss it with your doctor," or "I've had/know people who've had bad experiences with that, so be careful." "Advice" does not mean "must/must no do".

Considering most serious medications must be prescribed by a physician or other medical professional, I don't see how just discussing medications with someone can cause as much harm as you seem to think it could.

MormonMama,

I agree with you as well. Most meds, especially these, are indeed prescribed by a physician. Talk about depression and what meds we take, even with their diverse reactions & successes, are usefull.

One thing I have noticed on this thread is that there is one person on this thread, HEMI, that started out saying perhaps they shouldnt be handed out at all. Now, after reading many of our posts, he is actually embracing the benefits that these meds can do for people returning from war. That shows he has an open mind. Open minds allow for inspiration. Just as you have also shown.

This is, afterall, what forums are for. You and I are in agreement for sure!

[Guest Username-Removed]

Back to the subject at hand ...

Here is some interesting articles regarding anti-depressants...

MedicineNET.com "Commonly prescribed antidepressants may not work as well as published studies suggest, according to new research. "Selective" reporting of study results inflates the effectiveness of antidepressants, researchers found."

Mindfully.com "Numerous unpublished studies submitted to the Food and Drug Administration by pharmaceutical companies have found that many popular antidepressants have little or no effect on patients, according to a new review of the previously hidden findings."

[MormonMama]

This is about Hemi, in an official capacity, giving advice to people under his command about Prozac. Hemi knows absolutely nothing about Prozac; in fact, Hemi knows nothing about anti-depressants period.

If Hemi tells his Marines that he knows Prozac is not a good drug, one of them may be severely depressed but convinced by Hemi that anti-depressants don't work.

Is that what he is doing though? I have not seen anything in his posts that indicates that. From what I have seen, he is trying to learn how to handle his responsibility as a commanding officer in getting help for those who come to him seeking it.

Do me a favor. The next time you:

• can't get out of bed for no reason
• feel like you're being sucked under into a terrifying abyss
• are going to hurt yourself
• feel like someone is going to hurt you
• are hearing voices telling you to hurt someone else
• are having hallucinations
• want to die NOW

. . . give Hemi a call. Don't worry, you can wait until someone who really knows what he's talking about can get to you. Except if you can't.

I have felt all of those things. I've tried to commit suicide twice in the past. I used to slash my arms to release pain. I have a family history of depression and other mental and emotional disorders, as well as suicide. So don't act as if I don't know what I'm talking about. That's pretty darn presumptuous of you, considering you don't know me or anything about me. Next time, before you jump to conclusions that make you look foolish, you might want to stop and think first.

Of course I'm being ridiculous.

You said it, I didn't.

I'm sure you have people who care about you and would recognize you are ill, even if you couldn't.

Is the true for Hemi's Marines? Who knows, but Hemi should NEVER take that chance.

As their commanding officer, Hemi IS responsible for looking out for them and trying to recognize if they need help. It seems to me, from what I have read on here, that he is trying to gather information that will help him do that. I never saw anything that indicates that he wants to diagnose anyone or give "expert" advice, just that he is trying to learn what he can do to help his troops and get them the help they need, the same that ANY of us wants to do for those we care about. I say bravo to him!

I think you're going way off-base with your accusations against him.

One thing I have noticed on this thread is that there is one person on this thread, HEMI, that started out saying perhaps they shouldnt be handed out at all. Now, after reading many of our posts, he is actually embracing the benefits that these meds can do for people returning from war. That shows he has an open mind. Open minds allow for inspiration. Just as you have also shown.

This is, afterall, what forums are for. You and I are in agreement for sure!

I agree. I just feel like Elphaba is accusing him of something I have simply not seem him do, and I don't like that at all.

Edited June 14, 2008 by MormonMama

[Elphaba]

One thing I have noticed on this thread is that there is one person on this thread, HEMI, that started out saying perhaps they shouldn’t be handed out at all. >snip<That shows he has an open mind. Open minds allow for inspiration. Just as you have also shown.

I agree Hemi's position has evolved, and am glad to see it.

This is, after all, what forums are for. You and I are in agreement for sure!

There is no one thing “forums are for.“ They are not here so that everyone who agrees with each other writes posts, but those who disagree must keep quiet. We are all entitled to post our opinion, including those that disagree with yours.

I have felt all of those things. I've tried to commit suicide twice in the past. >snip< Next time, before you jump to conclusions that make you look foolish, you might want to stop and think first.

You prove my point.

The next time you are seriously a danger to yourself, are you going to call someone who knows absolutely nothing about serious mental health disorders, except for one anti-depressant rarely used by professionals anymore?

That would be foolish.

With the exception of cutting, I share your mental health problems, so much so that I am on disability. I am genuinely sad to hear you live with the anguish of mental health disease. No one understands them unless they have experienced them. I do not take your experiences lightly.

However, I jumped to my conclusions because you seemed to be unaware of how dangerous Prozac can be. In fact, I am more confused now, because, with your experiences, I would think you would better understand how dangerous it could be for Hemi to impart information about an anti-depressant that he learned from a message board.

You said it, I didn't.

Yes I did, but it was not meant to be taken literally, which is pretty obvious. Rather, it was a play on the word “ridiculous.”

It is people’s belief, including a few on this thread, that it is ridiculous to think discussing Prozac with his Marines could be dangerous.

Except that it could. Because while it is ridiculous in the vast majority of cases, there is always that one case where it is not. What if that one case was one of Hemi’s Marines?

Thus, to assume it could not happen is what is “ridiculous.”

I agree with you as well. Most meds, especially these, are indeed prescribed by a physician. Talk about depression and what meds we take, even with their diverse reactions & successes, are useful.

Is that what he is doing though? I have not seen anything in his posts that indicates that. From what I have seen, he is trying to learn how to handle his responsibility as a commanding officer in getting help for those who come to him seeking it.

As their commanding officer, Hemi IS responsible for looking out for them and trying to recognize if they need help.

It seems to me, from what I have read on here, that he is trying to gather information that will help him do that.

I never saw anything that indicates that he wants to diagnose anyone or give "expert" advice, just that he is trying to learn what he can do to help his troops and get them the help they need, the same that ANY of us wants to do for those we care about. I say bravo to him!

Hemi is in a position of authority.* Thus, he should never give information about anything not outlined in his job description. To do so would be to put the organization at risk.

His “information gathering,“ should be to discover every possible way to get his Marines to mental health professionals if needed. This includes the process Hemi would follow if he has a Marine who is a danger to himself.

Beyond that, Hemi should not discuss any medications, or treatment, with his Marines, although it is ridiculous to think anything bad could happen.

Except that it could.

Elphaba

*I could be wrong that Hemi is in a position of authority. I don't think he stated he was; therefore, if I am wrong I apologize to Hemi. E.

[Hemidakota]

You're welcome, Hemi.

However, I do not understand your comment about relying on the Spirit. You have no spiritual stewardship over these Marines; therefore, you would not be given inspiration about a soldier's mental health, or any other health issue.

It's my understanding the only people who have stewardship over them is their respective bishops; therefore, he would be the only person who would have the power of discernment, and who would receive spiritual inspiration about these men, regardless whether he/she was a member or not.

So how do you feel the Spirit would inspire you about anything regarding these Marines?

Elphaba

I have stewardship over them...is that good enough? :)

It is a case-by-case when they request a personal interview to listen to the member and what is given by the Spirit for an answer. One must be that atuned to the Spirit Elph.

[Hemidakota]

I agree Hemi's position has evolved, and am glad to see it.

There is no one thing “forums are for.“ They are not here so that everyone who agrees with each other writes posts, but those who disagree must keep quiet. We are all entitled to post our opinion, including those that disagree with yours.

You prove my point.

The next time you are seriously a danger to yourself, are you going to call someone who knows absolutely nothing about serious mental health disorders, except for one anti-depressant rarely used by professionals anymore?

That would be foolish.

With the exception of cutting, I share your mental health problems, so much so that I am on disability. I am genuinely sad to hear you live with the anguish of mental health disease. No one understands them unless they have experienced them. I do not take your experiences lightly.

However, I jumped to my conclusions because you seemed to be unaware of how dangerous Prozac can be. In fact, I am more confused now, because, with your experiences, I would think you would better understand how dangerous it could be for Hemi to impart information about an anti-depressant that he learned from a message board.

Yes I did, but it was not meant to be taken literally, which is pretty obvious. Rather, it was a play on the word “ridiculous.”

It is people’s belief, including a few on this thread, that it is ridiculous to think discussing Prozac with his Marines could be dangerous.

Except that it could. Because while it is ridiculous in the vast majority of cases, there is always that one case where it is not. What if that one case was one of Hemi’s Marines?

Thus, to assume it could not happen is what is “ridiculous.”

Hemi is in a position of authority.* Thus, he should never give information about anything not outlined in his job description. To do so would be to put the organization at risk.

His “information gathering,“ should be to discover every possible way to get his Marines to mental health professionals if needed. This includes the process Hemi would follow if he has a Marine who is a danger to himself.

Beyond that, Hemi should not discuss any medications, or treatment, with his Marines, although it is ridiculous to think anything bad could happen.

Except that it could.

Elphaba

*I could be wrong that Hemi is in a position of authority. I don't think he stated he was; therefore, if I am wrong I apologize to Hemi. E.

I usually don't, since it is not needful for many here to know.

No problem....

[MormonMama]

The next time you are seriously a danger to yourself, are you going to call someone who knows absolutely nothing about serious mental health disorders, except for one anti-depressant rarely used by professionals anymore?

Actually, I got help from my friends, because those in my family who could have helped me refused to believe I had a problem. The mental health professional I saw said it was "normal teenage angst" and that I would be fine. Thanks to my uneducated, unprofessional friends, I was, at least at that time.

Later, as an adult, my doctor felt I was just "under stress". No help there either.

Most recently I got through a horrible bout of depression thanks, once again, to friends. I did not have health insurance and could not afford to seek out medical help in any way, so I was forced to trudge through it with the help of friends, some of whom have gone through it themselves, others who have not.

So yes, I know from personal experience that uneducated advice can be of great help. However, the advice I have received has always included getting professional help as soon as possible (which was simply not always of help or even available). I'm currently just hoping that my current good mood lasts until DH's new insurance kicks in later this summer. But if it doesn't, I know I have friends I can call who will help me get through it as best they can.

I am genuinely sad to hear you live with the anguish of mental health disease. No one understands them unless they have experienced them. I do not take your experiences lightly.

Thank you. I manage as best I can. I'm sorry to hear that you are going through it as well.

However, I jumped to my conclusions because you seemed to be unaware of how dangerous Prozac can be. In fact, I am more confused now, because, with your experiences, I would think you would better understand how dangerous it could be for Hemi to impart information about an anti-depressant that he learned from a message board.

I think I've already explained why I have the position I do above. However, if you're still unsure why I feel the way I do, please ask and I will try and explain it better.

Because while it is ridiculous in the vast majority of cases, there is always that one case where it is not. What if that one case was one of Hemi’s Marines?

I understand your point, however I don't think we can go through life refusing to discuss anything because one unstable person might take it the wrong way. If Hemi is saying, "Here, try some Prozac," then yes, that would be dangerous and incredibly irresponsible of him. But if he is saying, "I know some people who have been helped by Prozac. Perhaps you should discuss it with your doctor," then I think that is good advice and he is well within his rights and even responsibility to discuss it.

Thus, to assume it could not happen is what is “ridiculous.”

Keep in mind, I never said it couldn't happen, I said that we cannot go through life pussyfooting around every subject because of what might happen.

His “information gathering,“ should be to discover every possible way to get his Marines to mental health professionals if needed. This includes the process Hemi would follow if he has a Marine who is a danger to himself.

I agree, and as I said, that is what I feel Hemi is trying to do, just based on what has been posted here. If he has said something to the contrary in another thread, I have not seen it, so perhaps I am mistaken.

Also, keep in mind that from what Hemi has said, my understanding is that he is only referring to members of the church who come to him for spiritual advice (if I'm wrong Hemi, please let me know). In that, he is within his rights to give them that advice. Similarly, I might go to my bishop, home teacher, husband, or many other church members for spiritual advice, and they are within their rights to offer that advice as well. And that advice should include prayer to God Himself. Those of us who are members of the church truly believe we receive divine guidance. I'm sorry if that is not something you can accept, but it does not change the fact that we live our lives by the spirit. In that respect, we are coming at this from a different perspective, and possibly even with a different understanding, than you.

Edited June 16, 2008 by MormonMama