Do non-mormons go to hell


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I agree to the extent that Christ will visit and minister to those in the Terrestrial Kingdom, but not the Telestial Kingdom. The Holy Ghost will visit and minister to those in all three kingdoms. I have yet to learn from any official source that we can progress from a lower kingdom to a higher after we are judged. This is our only probation here on earth. For this reason we have been warned by prophets since the time of Adam that this is the time to prepare to meet God. Those in a lower kingdom could not abide the glory, brightness or intelligence (light) of those in a higher kingdom. From my studies, each kingdom except the Celestial has a ceiling of progress. Only in the Celestial Kingdom can we progress indefinitely and have eternal increase.

It stands to reason that those in a higher kingdom could abide a lower kingdom. I find it interesting, though, that Father in Heaven will not visit the Terrestrial nor will Christ visit the Telestial, assuming I understand correct doctrine.

I think part of the reason that Christ won't take any (or many?) field trips to lower kingdoms is, as you say, the people in those kingdoms couldn't stand the light and glory of such a visitor; it'd almost seem mean, like a rich guy visiting a slum and shaking hands and then just walking away.

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what about Christians who were not Mormons? Which kingdom do they go to?

I’m not here to offend anybody, just speaking what we in the LDS church believe.

To add what I was talking about with different kingdoms we need to do what is required for that kingdom. Really to gain access to the Celestial Kingdom, we need to live a Celestial Law (or obey the commandments of the Celestial law). As the scriptures teach:

(Doctrine and Covenants 88:36-39.)

36 All kingdoms have a law given;

37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.

38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.

39 All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.

Next we need to move over to one other subject about Priesthood and God’s power. We believe that things need to be preformed by the proper priesthood power. We could go off and try to discuss about the priesthood (How does one get it? And so forth) but for the LDS church believes we have the priesthood power, to perform the works in his Name.

So, back to your question. We don’t believe that just anybody is going to make it to “heaven” we believe they have to do what is required (by the proper authority). Either that happens in this life, or they are taught the Gospel in the next. Either way they well have to obey the Law (commandments).

If they choose not to do this, then they would go to a lower kingdom. Which one I don’t know because we are speaking in pretty general terms.

And also what about people that have heard of Christianity and decided it was false yet still lived what could be considered a morally good life?

To the LDS this doesn’t really matter if we are talking about general Christian teachings (Christ died for us and atonement). Sense we believe everybody needs the chance to hear the gospel, these that reject the idea of Christian would have the chance to hear it again. If they again choose not to go a long with it, then they would be judged according. But more there sins wouldn’t be washed away through Christ, and probably would end up going to one of the lower kingdoms (most likely the Telestial kingdom)

But we do believe we are judged according to our works. And judged by the amount of Truth we follwed in our life. (truth about God, about his plan for us and so forth).

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As far as someone from say the Terrestial kingdom being able to progress into the Celestial kingdom, I've heard both sides of the story, but the general LDS culture suggests that this is not possible. My personal opinion is the opposite, that everyone (except sons of perdition) can progress eternally but for those in lower kingdoms it takes longer. A quick search on LDS.org doesn't elaborate, however I'm open to any revelatory references on the subject.

Section 76:112 seems pretty clear on the subject, at least for those in the Telestial Kingdom.

This is how Elder McConkie put it:

Heresy five: There are those who say that there is progression from one kingdom to another in the eternal worlds or that lower kingdoms eventually progress to where higher kingdoms once were.

This belief lulls men into a state of carnal security. It causes them to say, "God is so merciful; surely he will save us all eventually; if we do not gain the celestial kingdom now, eventually we will; so why worry?" It lets people live a life of sin here and now with the hope that they will be saved eventually.

The true doctrine is that all men will be resurrected, but they will come forth in the resurrection with different kinds of bodies--some celestial, others terrestrial, others telestial, and some with bodies incapable of standing any degree of glory. The body we receive in the resurrection determines the glory we receive in the kingdoms that are prepared.

Of those in the telestial world it is written: "And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end" (D&C 76:112).

Of those who had the opportunity to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage in this life and who did not do it, the revelation says:

Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven; which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever. [D&C 132:16­17]

They neither progress from one kingdom to another, nor does a lower kingdom ever get where a higher kingdom once was. Whatever eternal progression there is, it is within a sphere.

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13 January 1867, speaking as president of the Church in the Tabernacle, Brigham Young stated, "According to [some men's] theory, God can progress no further in knowledge and power, but the God that I serve is progressing eternally, and so are his children." Journal of Discourses 11:286.

This is kind of a tricky quote. Is God Progressing! Yes. Does he progress in Knowledge in Power NO! If he was, we couldn’t have perfect Faith in Him!

Again back to Elder McConkie.

Heresy one: There are those who say that God is progressing in knowledge and is learning new truths.

This is false--utterly, totally, and completely. There is not one sliver of truth in it. It grows out of a wholly twisted and incorrect view of the King Follett Sermon and of what is meant by eternal progression.

God progresses in the sense that his kingdoms increase and his dominions multiply--not in the sense that he learns new truths and discovers new laws. God is not a student. He is not a laboratory technician. He is not postulating new theories on the basis of past experiences. He has indeed graduated to that state of exaltation that consists of knowing all things and having all power.

Eternal progression consists of living the kind of life God lives and of increasing in kingdoms and dominions everlastingly. Why anyone should suppose that an infinite and eternal being who has presided in our universe for almost 2,555,000,000 years, who made the sidereal heavens, whose creations are more numerous than the particles of the earth, and who is aware of the fall of every sparrow--why anyone would suppose that such a being has more to learn and new truths to discover in the laboratories of eternity is totally beyond my comprehension.

Will he one day learn something that will destroy the plan of salvation and turn man and the universe into an uncreated nothingness? Will he discover a better plan of salvation than the one he has already given to men in worlds without number?

Joseph Smith also taught in the Lectures on Faith "that three things are necessary in order that any rational and intelligent being may exercise faith in God unto life and salvation." These he named as--

1. The idea that he actually exists;

2. A correct idea of his character, perfections, and attributes; and

3. An actual knowledge that the course of life which he is pursuing is according to the divine will.

The attributes of God are given as knowledge, faith or power, justice, judgment, mercy, and truth. The perfections of God are named as "the perfections which belong to all of the attributes of his nature," which is to say that God possesses and has all knowledge, all faith or power, all justice, all judgment, all mercy, and all truth. He is indeed the very embodiment and personification and source of all these attributes. Does anyone suppose that God can be more honest than he already is? Neither need any suppose there are truths he does not know or knowledge he does not possess.

Thus Joseph Smith taught, and these are his words:

Without the knowledge of all things, God would not be able to save any portion of his creatures; for it is by reason of the knowledge which he has of all things, from the beginning to the end, that enables him to give that understanding to his creatures by which they are made partakers of eternal life; and if it were not for the idea existing in the minds of men that God had all knowledge it would be impossible for them to exercise faith in him. [As quoted by Bruce R. McConkie in Mormon Doctrine (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), p.264]

If God is just dabbling with a few truths he has already chanced to learn or experimenting with a few facts he has already discovered, we have no idea as to the real end and purpose of creation.

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I'm open to any revelatory references on the subject.

Here is one from me. :eek:

If there was progression available to go between kingdoms.. and the Lord told us there was.. Don't you think that most people would probably do everything they wanted to do here on this earth.. and repent later? After all.. if you have all eternity to do it in..

Such is the nature of man. :(

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Here is one from me. :eek:

If there was progression available to go between kingdoms.. and the Lord told us there was.. Don't you think that most people would probably do everything they wanted to do here on this earth.. and repent later? After all.. if you have all eternity to do it in..

Such is the nature of man. :(

Men will be judged for what they know at the time of their mortal fall or time of death. They will be accountable for how much light they received in this life and the opportunities they had. But it is clear from the scriptures this is the time to repent and work on attaining truth, knowledge and the covenants of the kingdom as they have been revealed:

Alma 42: 4, 10, 13

1 Ne. 10: 21

1 Ne. 15: 32

2 Ne. 9: 27

Hel. 13: 38

Just like on the earth and inspite of much effort and sacrifice, some of our brothers and sisters seem unable to progress, such will be in the celestial kingdom.

D&C 130: 18-19

18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

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Hello, just a quick thought...

I feel that if there's anyone who should really worry about going to hell should be particularly the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints!

D&C 82: 3

3 For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation.

Edited by PapilioMemnon
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Originally Posted by MrNirom

Here is one from me.

If there was progression available to go between kingdoms.. and the Lord told us there was.. Don't you think that most people would probably do everything they wanted to do here on this earth.. and repent later? After all.. if you have all eternity to do it in..

Such is the nature of man.

D&C 130: 18-19

18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

I agree with you.. I was making the comment that IF there was progression allowed between Kingdoms.. (that means you are not stuck with the Kingdom you got because of what you did on Earth) Most people would do nothing here on this earth and expect to start at the lowest Kingdom... and then later work their way up.

Make sense?

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Mere membership in the Church, any Church, never guarantees anything.

Receiving temple ordinances means nothing if we do not keep the covenants.

Keeping covenants means nothing if we don't seek and cultivate the gift of Charity God gives us. If we don't have Charity, we are nothing.

It saddens me when people focus on CHURCH. "As long as I join the right CLUB I'll be okay." Church is a tool. What is taught from the pulpit, what we experience in Sunday School and Priesthood and Relief Society -- are tools. Means to an end.

In the case of the LDS Church, what distinguishes it from other Churches is actual Priesthood authority and Temple ordinances, which, when kept, qualify us for the GIFT of Eternal Life Christ is holding out for us to claim. But make no mistake. In the end it is a GIFT. Nothing we ever do, more or less than another person, will ever earn us what in the end is a GIFT.

The commandments have a purpose. To drive us to our knees, begging for the Lord's grace to change our hearts. Because we should all realize, if we don't already, that no unclean thing can enter His Kingdom. And yet to one degree or another, we all still sin. That puts us in quite a predicament.

It is that close relationship with Christ, hearing and obeying His Voice, that extends to us NEW CONDITIONS under which we can still personally be imperfect, but in the eyes of Heavenly Father, we will be perfect because of Christ's perfection.

Also, there need be no confusion on progression between Kingdoms. There will be none. NOW is the time of our testing. THIS is the final exam, folks. NOW is the time when we are showing God our true desires. NOW is the time where we are given the opportunity to strive for what we desire. One day judgement will come...and we will be placed in the Kingdom we desired. It will be the right choice...and we will be content. Just as we are content now in whatever level of striving and repentance we deem to be "enough."

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Progression between kingdoms...perhaps not.

What we do know is that progression from spirit prison to telestrial is not going be much fun. If it were possible to progress to other kingdoms I do not think it would be all that easy and much more of a trial than progression to telestial.

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all right, so someone is a genuinely good person, who has followed the teachings of christ even if they didn't know that they did--- for example, what about a nice guy atheist? would they go to heaven?

do you have to both proudly call yourself a mormon and be a "real" mormon in order to go to heaven?

sorry if this has been asked already!

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all right, so someone is a genuinely good person, who has followed the teachings of christ even if they didn't know that they did--- for example, what about a nice guy atheist? would they go to heaven?

do you have to both proudly call yourself a mormon and be a "real" mormon in order to go to heaven?

sorry if this has been asked already!

The simple answer is Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Imageto the first two questions.. and NO to the third[

Edited by MrNirom
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all right, so someone is a genuinely good person, who has followed the teachings of christ even if they didn't know that they did--- for example, what about a nice guy atheist? would they go to heaven?

do you have to both proudly call yourself a mormon and be a "real" mormon in order to go to heaven?

sorry if this has been asked already!

See for yourself:

Matt. 3: 15-16

Matt. 28: 19

Mark 16: 16

John 3: 5

Titus 3: 5

There is no righteousness away from God, for He is the ONE that called us to fulfill the covenant and promise made to the Fathers. That by grace we may avail ourselves of the Atonement of His Son Jesus Christ thru faith in Him and wash ALL our sins and be saved at the last day. There is NONE righteous or good. We become so and are declared clean and righteous/justified by the blood of the Lamb, our Savior, and thus become like Him heirs to the kingdom and all the Father has. There is NO other way to get to heaven/paradise/salvation.

There is no middle ground friends. It is what it is and God has spoken it. There are 3-4 different words in Hebrew and Greek that were translated hell and they all more of less mean/imply the same. To be away from God is Hell. It is sadness, isolation, loneliness, cold, obscurity, regret and emptiness. If you want to add a lake of fire and brim storm to that, help your self. It makes no real difference IMO.

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all right, so someone is a genuinely good person, who has followed the teachings of christ even if they didn't know that they did--- for example, what about a nice guy atheist? would they go to heaven?

do you have to both proudly call yourself a mormon and be a "real" mormon in order to go to heaven?

sorry if this has been asked already!

See for yourself:

Matt. 3: 15-16

Matt. 28: 19

Mark 16: 16

John 3: 5

Titus 3: 5

There is no righteousness away from God, for He is the ONE that called us to fulfill the covenant and promise made to the Fathers. That by grace we may avail ourselves of the Atonement of His Son Jesus Christ thru faith in Him and wash ALL our sins and be saved at the last day. There is NONE righteous or good. We become so and are declared clean and righteous/justified by the blood of the Lamb, our Savior, and thus become like Him heirs to the kingdom and all the Father has. There is NO other way to get to heaven/paradise/salvation.

It is not membership in the Church but what you do with it, it is how you live the Gospel, it is the weight of your testimony of the things God has revealed, the faithfulness and cleanliness of your heart and your willingness to do God's work day and night.

There is no middle ground, friends. It is what it is and God has spoken it. There are 3-4 different words in Hebrew and Greek that were translated hell and they all more of less mean/imply the same. To be away from God is Hell. It is sadness, isolation, loneliness, cold, obscurity, regret and emptiness. If you want to add a lake of fire and brim storm to that, help your self. It makes no real difference IMO.

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I would just say that willful disobedience (Going against the Lord's teachings/commandments/prophet's counsels) willfully (Knowing the will of God & choosing/doing the opposite) is hell! Disobedience can invites sadness, confusion, depression, feelings of low self-esteem, lack of confidence,... several emotional & physical issues as well... and those things can make us feel as if we were in hell... lose hope, faith, etc.. ... ... The torment of the soul...

I'm not saying that all ailments and illnesses are caused by disobedience; however, I have felt horrible feelings as I have slightly chosen to go against what I know. Once I repented, and choose the right, they were was gone! I think that a topic for another thread though.

Edited by PapilioMemnon
Just added something to clarify point
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I am an Catholic-here is my take on the question. It is not my official church position-just me an ordinary Catholic Christian

First Hell-the belief in "hell" is a developed concept-you will find few references to it in the OT for any of the possible words used for it mentioned below. Each of those have subtle different meanings.

Many Jews of today and yesterday-according to a survey- do not believe in an afterlife.

Source: Jewish Beliefs on the Afterlife - ReligionFacts

Here is another source with a little different view on the idea:

WikiAnswers - What type of afterlife do Jewish people believe in

Those that do-they leave such a decision of their final destiny up to God as they understand God in their faith tradition.

If you read the OT in it's entirity-you will find that many Hebrews/Jews believed in nothing after our death-or they left such a question up to God. Many used the term dust as their final state.

Hell or it's equivalent is mentioned in the NT as is mentioned.

Different sub-sets of Judaism believed different things-hence some heated discussions with Jesus and later his followers.

Many religious do not have a hell, some-do not have a Heaven or Heavens.

I see Hell as being eternally seperated from God-Whom I equate with Love.

That would be hell enough for me.

So what about those that believe in Islam, Budda or are Hindu's to name just a few.

What about those -through no fault of their own have never heard the Gospel? and who's Gospel? The Gospel of the LDS, Catholic, Lutheran, Jehovah Witness, Baptist, Etc.

We all have shades of different meanings on what is the Gospel is.

There are so many churches and denominations and sub-denominations and they all interpret things a bit differently. Some have different sacred texts than the other.

So-my answer is-to leave such questions and the destiny of someone ultimately to a loving and just God.

So-do we stop preaching our particular brand of our message-as we understand it-no we do not, but we should remember who our hearers may be and the best sermon is sometimes preached with few or no words. It is preached with our actions to a hurting world.

You may get a different answer from a Catholic theologian.

I am just an ordinary Catholic Christian here.

-Carol

See for yourself:

Matt. 3: 15-16

Matt. 28: 19

Mark 16: 16

John 3: 5

Titus 3: 5

There is no righteousness away from God, for He is the ONE that called us to fulfill the covenant and promise made to the Fathers. That by grace we may avail ourselves of the Atonement of His Son Jesus Christ thru faith in Him and wash ALL our sins and be saved at the last day. There is NONE righteous or good. We become so and are declared clean and righteous/justified by the blood of the Lamb, our Savior, and thus become like Him heirs to the kingdom and all the Father has. There is NO other way to get to heaven/paradise/salvation.

It is not membership in the Church but what you do with it, it is how you live the Gospel, it is the weight of your testimony of the things God has revealed, the faithfulness and cleanliness of your heart and your willingness to do God's work day and night.

There is no middle ground, friends. It is what it is and God has spoken it. There are 3-4 different words in Hebrew and Greek that were translated hell and they all more of less mean/imply the same. To be away from God is Hell. It is sadness, isolation, loneliness, cold, obscurity, regret and emptiness. If you want to add a lake of fire and brim storm to that, help your self. It makes no real difference IMO.

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I am an Catholic-here is my take on the question. It is not my official church position-just me an ordinary Catholic Christian

First Hell-the belief in "hell" is a developed concept-you will find few references to it in the OT for any of the possible words used for it mentioned below. Each of those have subtle different meanings.

Many Jews of today and yesterday-according to a survey- do not believe in an afterlife.

Source: Jewish Beliefs on the Afterlife - ReligionFacts

-Carol

Carol - Again, this is where LDS doctrines restores and re-state doctrine that was previoulsy known, accepted and taught in ancient times but more or less deleted later. The same happened with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Suddenly the Rabis decided no more Temple was required? I think it was learned helplessness that precipitated that position rather than doctrine.

Carol - The OT makes clear and unambiguous references to the resurrection and thus an afterlife:

"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead" (Isaiah 26:19).

"I know that my redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And . . . in my flesh shall I see God" (Job 19:25-26)

Even years after the time of Isaiah, the promise was still known. "Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2). Such promises were not referring to some vague "immortality of the soul," as taught in pagan religions, but to the resurrection of the body!

This was literally fulfilled when "the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many" (Matthew 27:52-53). Then, when Jesus first ascended to heaven (John 20:17), He led those who had been in "captivity" in the grave with Him into heaven (Ephesians 4:8). All who have trusted Christ in the Christian era will likewise be raised from the dead when He comes again. He has defeated death and has promised, "because I live, ye shall live also" (John 14:19).

Again, Christian theology today has been "filtered" and reinterpreted by theologian and other experts in divinity thru the last 2000 years. The same way that Martin Luther in his thesis pointed to instances where, in his opinion, the church had gone astray, modern Christianity seem ignorant of doctrines that were clearly understood in ancient times. If you look at the Torah and the Law of Moses, at most you will find about 60 commandments. Now the Rabis increased it to about 1000 in the Sefer Hamitzvot. Thus we see it is the hand of men that altered the simple and meaningful.

"The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant." Isa 24:5

I suggest the prophet was right

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Many religious do not have a hell, some-do not have a Heaven or Heavens.

I see Hell as being eternally seperated from God-Whom I equate with Love. That would be hell enough for me.

So what about those that believe in Islam, Budda or are Hindu's to name just a few.

What about those -through no fault of their own have never heard the Gospel?

You know.. I thought about that a lot. And I have come to the realization that there is "a" truth out there.

In other words.. it does not matter what you believe.

Let me give you an example. For this.. we must actually define what the Truth is. So for this example.. we will say that everyone goes to heaven. The only ones who go to hell are those that deny the Holy Ghost. It that OK for this example?

So.. if the above is the truth.. then does it matter if some church is teaching that everyone is going to hell? Or another church says that only some are going to hell? Or another one says.. only those rich enough to pay will go to heaven?

All of what people "believe" does not change "the Truth". Because people believed the earth was flat.. did not make the earth flat! All those who died believing the earth was flat.. found out the "truth" later.

So where does that leave us?

We all are searching for "the Truth". And how do we find that?

What does your Church teach about those that believe in Islam, Budda or are Hindu's? Or through no fault of their own have never heard the Gospel?

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I am an Catholic-here is my take on the question. It is not my official church position-just me an ordinary Catholic Christian

First Hell-the belief in "hell" is a developed concept-you will find few references to it in the OT for any of the possible words used for it mentioned below.

Word Search: hell

26 hits for the word "Hell" in the OT.

As opposed to 16 for the NT. (This does not include "perdition" "damnation" "lake of fire")

However, according to Strong's Concordance, the word from which Hell is translated, Sheol, appears more often, having 65 occurrences.

1) sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit

a) the underworld

b) Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead

1) place of no return

2) without praise of God

3) wicked sent there for punishment

4) righteous not abandoned to it

5) of the place of exile (fig)

6) of extreme degradation in sin

They definitely believed in an afterlife.

An English translation of the Hebrew word Shoel, hell signifies an abode of departed spirits and corresponds to the Greek Hades. In common speech it generally denotes the place of torment for the wicked, although it has been often held, both in the Jewish and the Christian churches, that Hades (meaning broadly the place of all departed spirits) consists of two parts, paradise and Gehenna, one the abode of the righteous and the other of the disobedient. “Gehenna,” or “Gehenna of fire,” is the Greek equivalent of the “valley of Hinnom,” a deep glen of Jerusalem where the idolatrous Jews offered their children to Moloch (2 Chr. 28: 3; 2 Chr. 33: 6; Jer. 7: 31; Jer. 19: 2-6). It was afterwards used as a place for burning the refuse of the city (2 Kgs. 23: 10), and in that way became symbolical of the place of torment (Matt. 5: 22, 29-30; Matt. 10: 28; Matt. 18: 9; Matt. 23: 15, 33; Mark 9: 43, 45, 47; Luke 12: 5; James 3: 6). Expressions about “hell-fire” are probably due to the impression produced on men’s minds by the sight of this ceaseless burning, and are figurative of the torment of those who willfully disobey God.

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