Anti-Mormons

[CatchTheRedeye]

OK, I've got a question for you all. This has really puzzled me. Why are there Anti-Mormons and why do many of them fight against the LDS church? I google "Mormons" or "LDS" and it seems like half the sites are people, many who used to be Mormons, who make it their life's work to knock down the church. Why don't they give it a rest? I don't hear about anti-Lutherans or anti-Baptists or anti-Catholics. I went to Utah a while back and went to the temple square thingy and there were people handing out leaflets against the church and had rude signs. I asked one of them why they were wasting their time tearing down another religion and he just said that they loved Mormons but were afraid they were all lost and were trying to save them for Jesus. That is crap. I just told him to get a life and worry about himself.

Maybe I'm an anti-Baptist or anti-Jehovah Witness. I've had run-ins with them where they get real irate and almost violent when I tell them I'm agnostic. When I tell Mormons that they have always been nice and said that they respect my opinion, but don't share it. Cool

[VisionOfLehi]

Because, my friend, history will repeat itself, as prophesied.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.

15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.

16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—

17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.

[RachelleDrew]

There are a lot of reasons why someone would specifically move against the church when they had previously been members. I feel bad for them, because it takes a lot to go through the process of leaving the church officially. To go through all that just to disassociate with a religious group means somebody really feels wronged for some reason. If they just got bored with the church or just lost their testimony chances are they would just be inactive members, not antis.

I've spoken one on one with some adamant antis, and a lot of them have really sad experiences with the church. My heart breaks for them, because nobody should have to feel unsafe or unhappy in their church. But at the same time, it's no reason to blame the entire institution and the scripture it's based off.

There are also antis who have absolutely no experience or knowledge of the church. I don't feel so sorry for them, because it only makes you look stupid to berate the Book of Mormon when you haven't even read it. Maybe they are concerned for our salvation, but some are just there to feel pious.

Every church has to face criticism at some point in it's existence. It's best to just be loving to them and ignore their words.

[CatchTheRedeye]

Lehi,

Very interesting. I remember reading that. Is this "whore of all the earth" church it talks about one certain church or is it any church that isn't Mormon? What do you think it means when it says it sits on many waters? An island? Just curious.

[CatchTheRedeye]

Well said Rachelle. I agree with just about everything you said.

[VisionOfLehi]

Lehi,

Very interesting. I remember reading that. Is this "whore of all the earth" church it talks about one certain church or is it any church that isn't Mormon? What do you think it means when it says it sits on many waters? An island? Just curious.

As I recall, it shall be made up of many churches and "churches."

And the many waters thing, I think has a couple meanings.

One, it shows that the church of Babylon shall be everywhere. "Many waters" means "Many places." IMO

But water has important symbolism. Blood, baptism, water of life.

So the church of Babylon will sit upon many FALSE practices, ordinances... Those proclaiming to be the true church. Or just ordinances completely outside of true doctrine.

Sins will be taught as things that lead to God. In other words, lies will be proclaimed and believed.

This is strictly my opinion. I've not been taught anything specific on the subject.

The Church of the Lamb refers to all the believers in Christ. Those who follow Him shall be persecuted. Personally, I don't think this includes JUST LDS people, but those who actually obey His commandments and try to be like Him.

It does say they will be FEW in number. Right now we have something like 1 BILLION "proclaimed" Christians, and I just don't think most of them "truly" are.

[VisionOfLehi]

There are also antis who have absolutely no experience or knowledge of the church. I don't feel so sorry for them, because it only makes you look stupid to berate the Book of Mormon when you haven't even read it. Maybe they are concerned for our salvation, but some are just there to feel pious.

There are some antis who hide as wolves in sheep's clothing, and HAVE read tho BoM and actually quote it to back up their own non-doctrinal viewpoints, trying to prove us wrong or whatever. These are people who have never even been in the Church, and don't desire to be.

But, lucky us, we have modern prophets who guide us to the CORRECT interpretation.

[RachelleDrew]

There are some antis who hide as wolves in sheep's clothing, and HAVE read tho BoM and actually quote it to back up their own non-doctrinal viewpoints, trying to prove us wrong or whatever. These are people who have never even been in the Church, and don't desire to be.

But, lucky us, we have modern prophets who guide us to the CORRECT interpretation.

I've met one or two of those as well. I would give them credit for at least reading it, but anytime somebody picks up a book with the intention of finding fault with it, they will.

There is a big difference between someone who reads our scripture with a curious, open mind and still doesn't believe it is truth, and somebody who reads our scripture with the sole intent of picking it apart and twisting it to suit their agenda. The former are the ones that I find to be particularly offensive.

[VisionOfLehi]

I've met one or two of those as well. I would give them credit for at least reading it, but anytime somebody picks up a book with the intention of finding fault with it, they will.

Haha... I tried that, and look where I am now.

[thekolobkid]

Lehi,

Very interesting. I remember reading that. Is this "whore of all the earth" church it talks about one certain church or is it any church that isn't Mormon? What do you think it means when it says it sits on many waters? An island? Just curious.

I am sure that I will get into trouble for saying this but the "whore of all the earth" is believed by many to be the Catholic Church specifically. In the LDS Church we don't believe that it is that simple. We believe that the "whore of all the earth/Church of the devil" is any organization that seeks to lead people away from Christ. Technically by this definition even members of Christs true Church can actually be members of the Church of the devil if they are leading people away from Christ. Like those idiot Return Missionaries who are posing for the topless missionary calendar. They are trying to merge Zion and Babylon together and history and the scriptures make it clear that when you attempt to mix Zion with Babylon you end up with only Babylon, hence the scriptures saying that "Zion is fled"

Elder Bruce R. McConkie who was the Apostle that wrote Mormon Doctrine, said in the first edition of that volume that the "church of the devil" was specifically the Catholic Church. The Prophet and the other Apostles told him that he couldn't single out another religion like that because it will lead to contention and make it difficult to build relationships with other people. However if you look at the scriptural descriptions of the "whore of all the earth/Church of the devil" they tend to describe the Catholic Church who have taken on most of the trappings of the ancient Babylonian religion. This is not to say that the Catholocs are in any way bad people. I myself have many friends who are Catholics, some devout and some not and they are all great people. The problem is that if you look at the history of the Catholic Church it has engaged in a lot more than simple proselytizing. They have subjugated kingdoms and republics, tortured and murdered, They practically invented the modern intelligence network. Not the least of these horrors was the Inquisition. Certainly other religions have committed the same crimes as the Catholics but the Catholics just seem to be more masterful at it, so they have gotten most of the prophetic spotlight when it comes to the "whore of all the earth/Church of the devil".

I would specifically point the finger at the Jesuit Society which is a military order of priests within the Catholic Church which is apparently sworn by oath to bring the whole world under the subjugation of the Pope. The Jesuits are truly the masters of intelligence and espionage. When Hitler gave the job of setting up the NAZI SS to Himmler he said "In Himmler I have my own Ignatius de Loyola" Ignatius de Loyola was the founder of the society of the Jesuits. Himmler then modeled the SS on the Jesuits and after WWII thanks to Operation Paperclip our CIA was modeled on the SS.

During the 1800's the Jesuits were kicked out of most of the nations of Europe because they had been working political intrigues behind the scenes. In fact the dislike of the Jesuits by Europe was so intense that the Pope had to officially condemn the Jesuits. When he did this he acknowledge verbally that he was signing his own death warrant, and that losing the Jesuits was like cutting off his own right hand because they were so useful. If I recall correctly he was dead within a year of signing the order to disband the Jesuits. They went underground in Europe for a few decades then they came back into prominence and began setting up schools in all the nations so that they could control the education of the children of these nations. Here in America we have several Jesuit schools where they supposedly are able to manipulate the students into their line of thinking. I say supposedly because I try to look at these things with a grain of salt always, but there are just way too many historical acts of willful contention to dismiss the claims against the Jesuits. They are a hardcore bunch.

So when we speak of the "whore of all the earth/Church of the devil" Mormons are quick to not point the finger at anyone particularly to avoid contention, but that doesn't mean that no body out there fits the bill. We just don't want to become Anti-anybody because then doors/ears/minds/hearts close to us and we are unable to share the restored gospel with our individual brothers and sisters that might belong to an organization that we have pitted ourselves against. This is not Christs Doctrine, because the Savior has taught us to Love one another, even as he has loved us, and that the worth of souls is great, therefore we should not esteem someone as "children of the devil" or anything like that which will alienate people. Which is what happens when Anti Mormons try to protest Mormonism. They claim that they love us but they insult and make fun of our faith and claim that it is out of love so that they won't look like monsters. This is the same mentality that cause abusive men to tell their battered wives that they hurt them because the love them so much.

Actually there are anti-Catholics (because of many of the reasons I stated above) and anti-Jehovah's Witnesses. Actually many of the same "Christian" groups that are anti-Mormon are also anti-anything else that doesn't fit into their mental image of what is right and wrong. I think they like to focus on us because they feel threatened by both our active proselytizing and our incredibly rapid growth.

[jimuk]

Funny thing is, all this ante/lds persecution, makes the spirit in me stronger, it in no way makes me doubt my beliefs one little bit.

I look at it like this, if the church is wrong, then wouldent Satan just leave us alone and let us get on with it, of course he would, we would have fallen into his plan of things.

Why do you think that whenever a member of the church commits a serious crime the media always states that that person is a "Mormon" to me it is obvious, they never mention any other church.

This is my view anyway, simple words i know but i am not very good with words sorry.

[hordak]

OK, I've got a question for you all. This has really puzzled me. Why are there Anti-Mormons and why do many of them fight against the LDS church? I google "Mormons" or "LDS" and it seems like half the sites are people, many who used to be Mormons, who make it their life's work to knock down the church. Why don't they give it a rest? I don't hear about anti-Lutherans or anti-Baptists or anti-Catholics. I went to Utah a while back and went to the temple square thingy and there were people handing out leaflets against the church and had rude signs. I asked one of them why they were wasting their time tearing down another religion and he just said that they loved Mormons but were afraid they were all lost and were trying to save them for Jesus. That is crap. I just told him to get a life and worry about himself.

Maybe I'm an anti-Baptist or anti-Jehovah Witness. I've had run-ins with them where they get real irate and almost violent when I tell them I'm agnostic. When I tell Mormons that they have always been nice and said that they respect my opinion, but don't share it. Cool

It's human nature to want to be right IMO. If people leave the church it means either they are wrong,or the the church is and it's much easier to believe the latter.

[Soulsearcher]

Just my 2 cents worth. While i find Anti's very distasteful, members have to remember there is a certain amount of members that draw the fire down upon the church. Vocal over judgment and hypocrisy, while not of the church it's self does affect the public's view of the church via it's membership. I was raised around only members like this and i have no problem stating that for a long time i figured that was the church and it could go burn for all i cared.

[djschroeder]

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith

here you can read examples from the early history of the church, Joseph Smith talks about the reasons why they persecute our faith, this will give you a better understanding, i suggest that you read the whole chapter it explains the subject in a wonderful inspired way. just click the link below

Beware the Bitter Fruits of Apostasy Chapter 27

Those who apostatize lose the Spirit of God, break their covenants, and often persecute members of the Church.

“Strange as it may appear at first thought, yet it is no less strange than true, that notwithstanding all the professed determination to live godly, apostates after turning from the faith of Christ, unless they have speedily repented, have sooner or later fallen into the snares of the wicked one, and have been left destitute of the Spirit of God, to manifest their wickedness in the eyes of multitudes. From apostates the faithful have received the severest persecutions. Judas was rebuked and immediately betrayed his Lord into the hands of His enemies, because Satan entered into him.

“There is a superior intelligence bestowed upon such as obey the Gospel with full purpose of heart, which, if sinned against, the apostate is left naked and destitute of the Spirit of God, and he is, in truth, nigh unto cursing, and his end is to be burned. When once that light which was in them is taken from them they become as much darkened as they were previously enlightened, and then, no marvel, if all their power should be enlisted against the truth, and they, Judas-like, seek the destruction of those who were their greatest benefactors.

“What nearer friend on earth, or in heaven, had Judas than the Savior? And his first object was to destroy Him. Who, among all the Saints in these last days, can consider himself as good as our Lord? Who is as perfect? Who is as pure? Who is as holy as He was? Are they to be found? He never transgressed or broke a commandment or law of heaven—no deceit was in His mouth, neither was guile found in His heart. And yet one that ate with Him, who had often drunk of the same cup, was the first to lift up his heel against Him. Where is one like Christ? He cannot be found on earth. Then why should His followers complain, if from those whom they once called brethren, and considered as standing in the nearest relation in the everlasting covenant, they should receive persecution?

“From what source emanated the principle which has ever been manifested by apostates from the true Church to persecute with double diligence, and seek with double perseverance, to destroy those whom they once professed to love, with whom they once communed, and with whom they once covenanted to strive with every power in righteousness to obtain the rest of God? Perhaps our brethren will say the same that caused Satan to seek to overthrow the kingdom of God, because he himself was evil, and God’s kingdom is holy.”10

“There have always been, in every age of the church, those who have been opposed to the principles of virtue, who have loved the gain of this present world, followed the principles of unrighteousness, and have been the enemies of truth. … Those who have associated with us and made the greatest professions of friendship, have frequently been our greatest enemies and our most determined foes; if they became unpopular, if their interest or dignity was touched, or if they were detected in their iniquity, they were always the first to raise the hand of persecution, to calumniate [make false charges about] and vilify their brethren, and to seek the downfall and destruction of their friends.”11

“Renegade ‘Mormon’ dissenters are running through the world and spreading various foul and libelous reports against us, thinking thereby to gain the friendship of the world, because they know that we are not of the world, and that the world hates us; therefore they [the world] make a tool of these fellows [the dissenters]; and by them try to do all the injury they can, and after that they hate them worse than they do us, because they find them to be base traitors and sycophants [flatterers].”12

[djschroeder]

the link

LDS.org - Melchizedek Priesthood Chapter Detail - Beware the Bitter Fruits of Apostasy

[Justice]

People always fear what they don't understand. Many of them believe they are doing the right thing, as did Saul before he became Paul. But, I suppose there are some like the Scribes and Pharisees that do it with some understanding that this is the true Church.

[tammyi]

I know from watching other religions. Christians have people that get hurt in the church and leave and never come back too. But you don't see them posting things about that.

But when people feel threating they will fight with the issue.

When you tell people that you can't live in sin and still be happy and be pleasing to God they get mad too.

but don't let people get you down or turn away from what you feel is right. Live for God.

[bytor2112]

Have you ever noticed that the Anti's sensationalize remarks made by early church leaders and represent these comments as "official" church doctrine? Things like the Adam-God theory, or God having sex with Mary or God having been a man and grew into a God and has many wives, etc. And the reckless irreverence they show toward people of our Faith is sickening. The protests at Conference and at Temples, the mocking and they actually are brazen enough to describe in detail the Endowment.

It's one thing to respectfully disagree.... I would never treat someone of another faith like this. Funny, how they claim to have such concern for us lost souls....... I can't imagine anyone being converted to there way of thinking by the tactics they use. That said, most who leave the Church were searching for the exit sign already and the anti material is just an excuse. I can't explain why former LDS members fight against the Church..... some are bitter and perhaps were exed and some probably didn't have a testimony other than a borrowed one or one that they reasoned in their mind. I find a common link to these folks is that they never speak about the Holy Spirit which makes me wonder if they had ever recieved a witness from the Spirit.

[DigitalShadow]

Wherever there is a small minority, there will be people who hate/fear them. It is as simple as that and this theme has been repeated throughout human history.

[StallionMcBeastly]

Funny thing is, all this ante/lds persecution, makes the spirit in me stronger, it in no way makes me doubt my beliefs one little bit.

I completely agree:)

[Misshalfway]

It is a phenomenon -- this anti behavior. I feel somewhat baffled by it in any circumstance or sphere not just when it happens against my church.

Having said that, I think it is important to note that any truth is like a two edged sword. It will divide in absolute clarity. We are a peaceful church, but a threatening one to some. We challenge many beliefs and on top of that we aren't easy to squash as many would have liked to see in our earliest history. And because religion is such a personal thing, our emotions often over-rule our heads. I think of Martin Luther and how he was treated when he questioned the establishment. Joseph Smith, if nothing else, did absolutely challenge the establishment of Christianity at its very core. Such things aren't brushed off lightly. He must have hit a nerve. Such polarization begs the question, who is right and who is wrong? And of course, no one likes to be wrong. And so, we sometimes and sadly fight to the death so we don't have to be.

Humans! We are funny creatures, aren't we? A jumble of reason and passion and prone to much needless hysteria.

[prisonchaplain]

Here's a friendly outsider perspective:

> First, there are obviously former members of the church who convert to other religions. Those who become evangelical Christians, adapt a theology that calls for all Christians to "evangelize" or "become a missionary to" everyone in their circle of influence. Since they used to be LDS, and believe they have a cultural and religious understanding that makes them especially suited to the task, they take up becoming "missionaries to Mormons." Some do so with great tact, and sincere affection, and gain some respect (along with obvious opposition). Others, charge in like a bull in a China shop, and do not gain respect, but rather disdain.

> BTW, though LDS feel singled out, this same phenomenon happens with former Jews, former Muslims, former Hindus, and yes, former atheists/agnostics. You don't generally see "Anti-Lutherans," because evangelicals do not consider Lutherans to be heretical in their teachings.

> There are some more fundamentalist type Christians who believe they must "contend for the faith." Their goal is to simply present "the truth," and those who hear can either believe or burn. This is the camp that usally come into SLC with obnoxious signs, and worse. They are intentionally confrontational, believing they are simply to sound the alarm, so the righteous might repent of their errors.

> Finally, LDS tend to be more polite and "soft-sell," in part because of their theology. They believe everyone will have a chance to hear the gospel, and that there are several kingdoms of heaven, not all of which require full embrace of their restored gospel. So, it's okay to nicely present, without having to communicate dire urgency and the fearfulness of hell's flames.

> Evangelicals have more of an "all or nothing theology." It's heaven or hell, and the decision must be made in this lifetime. So there is an urgency, and a sense of responsiblity, that sometimes translates poorly into boorishness, arrogance and argumentation. Many of our leaders try to balance the sense of urgency with the truth that we really are but messengers, and it's the Holy Spirit's job to convict and convert.

Hope this helps.

[Misshalfway]

I must say I admire the passion of some of these preachers but often question in my heart, why spend so much time telling me why I am wrong. Why not tell me why you are right?

[bytor2112]

They should spend more time protesting the con artists found on TBN. Talking about Priestcraft......"and they rob the poor for their fine sanctuaries..."

[candyprpl]

A week after I was baptized (LDS) I went to California to visit my daughter. She is a recovering addict and we were invited to a dinner celebrating another person's one year sobriety. As dinner progressed, my ears caught a conversation across the table. The young lady was talking about having been married in the Temple and her divorce and falling away from the church. She said many horrible things about the church and Temple marriage. Being a new member and have very little knowledge I didn't want to get into the conversation. My feeling at the time was that she was not being truthful -- even my daugther who is not a member knew she was speaking with anger and not truth. Later and even now I think about this person often. She left her marriage (and maybe she had good reasons for doing this) and she left the church and where was she now? A recovering alcoholic filled with bitterness! I felt sorry for her. I know that when a person has been excomunicated that it is pretty humiliating and unless they take a path of repentance, bitterness takes over.

In the Book of Mormon there is a scripture that tells it all; Alma 24:30 "And thus we can plainly discern, that after a people have been once enlightened by the Spirit of God, and have had great knowledge of things pertaining to righteousness, and then have fallen away into sin and transgression, they become more hardened, and thus their state becomes worse than though they had never known these things."