Another religion site

[justamere10]

It was, if missionaries live right, they're supposed to be guided to the 'right' doors.

What are we to derive from missionaries who knock their little fingers off but never make a sale? They weren't living right?

Actually, missionaries at the MTC are taught to be obedient to the GOSPEL. Mission Presidents happen to have the great honor of hosting the missionaries during their time in the mission field.

Speaking back to the subject of door-knocking, mission presidents are being instructed to keep knocking to a minimum. It's a last resort of all of the possible mission activities that can be done.

Deliberately? You have data to support this? My personal observation is that the new mission presidents are given adequate time with the outgoing mission presidents along with contact information to continue communication should anything come up down the road that needs clarification. The Area Authorities are also instructed to bend over backwards to make these transitions incredibly easy for the new mission presidents. If anything, the LDS church deliberately makes a tremendous effort to make new mission presidents' lives much easier than just 'drop 'em in the field and let the spirit guide.'

I completely agree. But we were talking about 'door-knocking' specifically, weren't we?

It seems that you have had some different experiences with missionary work.

I very much disagree with your idea that missionaries are salesmen out to make a "sale".

I think it much more accurate to consider faithful missionaries as teachers of righteousness. They present to investigators a summary of God's Plan of Happiness and bear their own living testimonies of its truthfulness and eternal benefits. The Holy Spirit speaks to the investigators in His own way and that Spirit is what converts, not the missionaries.

Missionaries are expected to be obedient to their mission president and on down through zone and district leaders. As they keep the rules and live temple worthy and anxiously engage in the good cause set before them each morning, the Holy Spirit guides them and "coincidence" miracles occur almost daily.

Door knocking may not be the most effective way to get teaching opportunties, but door knocking is a frequent experience most likely for most young missionaries in most missions.

I fail to understand why you are arguing with me if you are in fact an experienced LDS Missionary and a faithful member of the LDS Church, as your screen name implies.

[ldsmissionary]

It seems that you have had some different experiences with missionary work.

Just noticed you served in China. Much success there?

I very much disagree with your idea that missionaries are salesmen out to make a "sale".

Which is expected.

The Holy Spirit speaks to the investigators in His own way and that Spirit is what converts, not the missionaries.

Sure, sure. But if we're completely honest, we know that the LDS church employs marketing teams to make this 'spiritual' conversion much easier. The LDS church has placed an incredible emphasis on knowing their customers, especially in the last 10 years. Their focus now is brand development rather than direct marketing.

After months of research, Kelly's team concluded that "people do not know the church or care about it." To increase awareness and understanding of the church, Kelly's team decided to shift from a direct marketing strategy to brand development.

Missionaries are expected to be obedient to their mission president and on down through zone and district leaders.

Sure, but weren't we talking about knocking doors? Politics within the mission field are a completely different beast to tackle.

As they keep the rules and live temple worthy and anxiously engage in the good cause set before them each morning, the Holy Spirit guides them and "coincidence" miracles occur almost daily.

Sales opportunities?

Door knocking may not be the most effective way to get teaching opportunties, but door knocking is a frequent experience most likely for most young missionaries in most missions.

I agree. All missionaries will have that task. It's sad that they have to resort to it.

I fail to understand why you are arguing with me if you are in fact an experienced LDS Missionary and a faithful member of the LDS Church, as your screen name implies.

My profile should still be working. I'm an open ex-Mormon. I did serve a full-time mission in Mexico.

The point we've been speaking to, for my part anyway, is knocking doors. I truly feel terrible that missionaries are reduced to knocking doors like vacuum cleaner salesmen.

This time could be better spent on humanitarian efforts rather than annoying people in their homes.

Edited September 4, 2008 by ldsmissionary

[justamere10]

Just noticed you served in China. Much success there?

Sure, sure. But if we're completely honest, we know that the LDS church employs marketing teams to make this 'spiritual' conversion much easier. The LDS church has placed an incredible emphasis on knowing their customers, especially in the last 10 years. Their focus now is brand development rather than direct marketing.

Sure, but weren't we talking about knocking doors? Politics within the mission field are a completely different beast to tackle.

Sales opportunities?

I agree. All missionaries will have that task. It's sad that they have to resort to it.

My profile should still be working. I'm an open ex-Mormon. I did serve a full-time mission in Mexico.

The point we've been speaking to, for my part anyway, is knocking doors. I truly feel terrible that missionaries are reduced to knocking doors like vacuum cleaner salesmen.

This time could be better spent on humanitarian efforts rather than annoying people in their homes.

I understand you better now, thanks for revealing your apostate status.

Your screen name in my opinion is deceiving, sort of the proverbial 'wolf in sheep's clothing' is it not? Why do you use such a screen name when you are not an LDS missionary and are in fact critical of the Church and gospel you once believed to be true?

[ldsmissionary]

I understand you better now, thanks for revealing your apostate status.

Your screen name in my opinion is deceiving, sort of the proverbial 'wolf in sheep's clothing' is it not? Why do you use such a screen name when you are not an LDS missionary and are in fact critical of the Church and gospel you once believed to be true?

Weren't we just talking about knocking doors?

Can we simply speak to that point or must we zig zag about and then lean towards the ad hominem path?

Listen, if there weren't BELIEVING MORMONS hired to make critical decisions about the marketing strategies and growth initiatives of the LDS church, do you honestly think the Mormon gospel would have a fighting chance in today's competitive religious atmosphere?

The truth of the matter is that there has to be some amount of business sense in 'communicating' the message of the Mormon faith. Knocking doors is an old and archaic selling strategy.

I'm 100% for sharing the message of Mormonism.

On the professional level, I've helped believing marketing strategists at LDS, Inc. to explore answers to their questions about how to better spread their brand.

It's a good thing. It's okay to have friends that think and believe differently.

[justamere10]

Weren't we just talking about knocking doors?

Can we simply speak to that point or must we zig zag about and then lean towards the ad hominem path?

Listen, if there weren't BELIEVING MORMONS hired to make critical decisions about the marketing strategies and growth initiatives of the LDS church, do you honestly think the Mormon gospel would have a fighting chance in today's competitive religious atmosphere?

The truth of the matter is that there has to be some amount of business sense in 'communicating' the message of the Mormon faith. Knocking doors is an old and archaic selling strategy.

I'm 100% for sharing the message of Mormonism.

On the professional level, I've helped believing marketing strategists at LDS, Inc. to explore answers to their questions about how to better spread their brand.

It's a good thing. It's okay to have friends that think and believe differently.

Fair enough. Except for your choice of screen names. :)

[Brenton]

So, when I found CARM, I thought I'd have the same experience, but it took me a while to realize they weren't interested in anything other than insisting The Godmakers was THE truth. When I adamantly insisted it was not, they accused me of being a troll, and lying about my ex-membership.

Thus my utter disdain for Ed Decker was born.

Elphaba

I simply cannot stand the rubbish peddled for truth in that film.

Needs to be renamed "'Deckers' angst" or something. ugh.

[MarginOfError]

As an active, and non-apostate (although slightly heretical) member, I have to agree with the 'apostate' here. Knocking on doors is, in general, a waste of time. Going door-to-door was my favorite activity as a missionary, and I did it a lot. But every time a door opened, my goal was to see how long I could keep the person talking to me, about anything, without bringing up the Church or the Gospel. And then I would never, ever teach a discussion on the spot, but set up a time to come back to teach. Most never showed up for their appointment, leaving me with even more time to knock on doors. The reason I tried to get people to talk as long as possible: so I'd knock on fewer doors.

Only one person whose door I knocked one went on to be baptized. And if you believe for a second that there was any amount of inspiration or divine guidance in that, then you're horribly misguided. I promise you that was just plain dumb luck (combined with some incredibly good record keeping).

When mission presidents arrive at their new mission home they deliberately have very little if any time with the outgoing president. That is so each mission president relies on the Spirit.

I happened to be in the mission office (as the Mission Secretary) when the mission president changed. The primary reason for the mission presidents to have so little time together--and both presidents told me this independently--is so that they won't have time to discuss individual missionaries. Each mission president is supposed to develop his own opinion of each missionary outside the influence of the previous president. In fact, they are instructed not to discuss missionaries, but are asked to focus on local leaders, programs, activities, etc.

[brother01]

Relating to ''other sites", I've also had bad experiences at CARM, even though not LDS. Some time back I was posting in favor of particular items of faith that are clearly in the teachings of Jesus Christ as found in the Bible that the Evangelicals don't accept as true. I was pretty much banned because of it. It's not really honest conversation when you can't express your faith and uphold the teachings of Jesus Christ.

CARM is not the only place that has this problem, FAIR does too. And to be honest, the rules of this site prevent totally honest discourse between LDS and non LDS.

When did Jesus hold back on the gospel because He didn't want to offend someone by speaking the truth?

[Moksha]

CARM is not the only place that has this problem, FAIR does too. And to be honest, the rules of this site prevent totally honest discourse between LDS and non LDS.

When did Jesus hold back on the gospel because He didn't want to offend someone by speaking the truth?

So you are saying that Jesus would not have faired well under the moderation policies of CARM or MAD(used to be FAIR)?

[Hemidakota]

Most likely not....lol

[brother01]

Most likely not....lol

Jesus would not let the rules of debate hamper the telling of the truth God told Him to tell.

Thereby we know we are not God:-)

Just brings to mind that the blocking of posts on a message board about the gospel of Jesus Christ - if the truth is blocked - is akin to 'withholding the truth in unrighteousness.'

Yet I am a guest and don't want to soil the carpet because I refused to take off my shoes.

[Ironrod47]

Hey guys I am new to the forum and I can tell you I just spent some time on that "Other Website" and it was just a horrible experience!

They are like hungry sharks looking for Mormon blood. It just amazes me how someone who claims to have the spirit and the TRUTH, would act like that.