New, Looking for support

[secretsister]

Hi,

I'm looking for a place to vent and find support. Both my husband and I have been married before. We have been married to each other for 1 1/2 years now. Generally, he is a good man. He is strong in the church, lives the standards, attends the temple, etc. I think that he loves me, although I have begun to question that.

This is why: Since we've been married, he has severe moodiness. It's always about something different and always about something very insignificant. For instance, this last time, we were laughing and joking together and a piece of thread was found on his garments. He blew up at me saying the string was filthy and I don't do his laundry properly. I tried to calm him down by explaining that the thread was clean as it too went through the wash and he shouldn't be so upset about it. He said extremely hurtful things to me and barely talked to me for a week. He did try to make up with me the next day, but I told him I was still hurt by what he said. Instead of apolagizing, he told me to get a job since I don't do anything at home. (Which is not true)

When these "episodes" happen, he continues to go to work and church and act completely normal. At home, he stays in his room, refuses to speak to me, locks me out of our room at night, and says that it is all my fault. To him, I am too sensative, defensive and prideful.

In my mind, I have changed so many thing for him... that I think are silly, like making his sandwhich on a paper towel because I don't wash the counter well enough. I don't mind doing things for him when he asks me to. I do not like being lectured like I'm stupid. I had to listen to a 20 minute lecture on the way to the temple about why I should pluck all the grapes off the vine then wash them with friction instead of rinsing them and serving them to him still in a bunch. He said I was lazy if I didn't agree "Now that I'd been told a better way."

When he's not like this, we talk about everything, barely argue, and when we do, it lasts a few minutes. I try to tell him he seems to cycle with mood swings, but he denies it and blames me.

This time, he is not coming out of it. I think it's my fault because I can't forgive him. I can't simply forget the things he said and be happy and bubbly like he wants right now. He just wakes up one day and says, "Let's make up." Then, he gets super happy and acts like nothing ever happened. I just couldn't do it this time and so the irritability continues. If he forgets something, it's because I didn't remind him. If he doesn't recall something we talked about, it's because I didn't communicate it in a way he could understand. If I make a mistake, it's unforgiveable. If he makes a mistake, it's, "Oh well!"

We recently got approval to be sealed in the temple. I don't want to. I feel trapped now, how would I feel knowing I'm stuck for eternity? I keep praying for the desire, but I'm not getting anywhere. I did get confirmation when I asked about marrying him, but of course, now, I question my interpretation of that. I love him, but we don't have a strong history of good times for me to get through this. I wonder if it is an illness, but he will not acknowledge he is behaving abnormally. He will not seek help and is angry at me because I want to.

Thanks for listening.

Secretsister

[rameumptom]

Welcome to the forum.

Since we do not know you or your husband, I'd suggest you talk with your bishop about it. Perhaps your husband is having some mood swings due to hormonal imbalances or something. Perhaps he needs to take a class on managing anger.

[Truegrits]

Welcome, secretsister. Your story is 'familiar' to me. I have a close family member that experienced a similar situation. While they were getting to know each other/dating, he was the most considerate/kind/thoughtful/polite young man she had known. There was nothing he did or said to warn or prepare her for what happened after they were married. His mental abuse started on their honeymoon. He never hit her, but his words and actions cut deep. His verbal abuse blindsided her, for sure. To all outward appearances, their marriage was fine. For a while.

She loved him, and put up with and hid the abuse and her anguish from her family and friends. She didn't wash the dishes correctly or wash the clothes properly or clean the house well enough..."What have you done all day, sleep?" "Have you combed your hair today?" She was never dressed the right way...never "pretty" enough..."have you gained weight?" He actually told her she was stupid, often!

She had a baby the first year of marriage. After the baby, she talked to her Mom and Dad...with her Bishop. She talked with his parents, trying to understand why he had changed, and why he "hated" her.

She had asked that they seek help, but he did not think they needed it. She just needed to "grow up".

She reached a point that she could not continue to live, or raise, a child in that atmosphere. He had broken marriage covenants, and she went through all the steps of seeking a divorce. He did not fight it.

Well, at some point during the wait, he DID seek help; realized he loved her, and did not want to lose his son. He totally turned (with help) himself around. They are together, have a strong marriage, and four children.

So, things can work out. But probably not without help; both of you need to talk about it. Talk to the Bishop. Do not keep it hidden; do not be an enabler. No marriage partner has the right to belittle/abuse the other. That is not what marriage is supposed to be.

Sorry for this long post. I hope and pray that you can find peace and happiness in your marriage.

[countrygirl66]

hi secret sister,

I don't have much advice for you but wanted to say i am here for support. I have been married to my h for 23 yrs. When we started out our marriage my h would say some awful things and be really critical of me and the more i tried to please him the worse he was. It took us a long time to find the answers to make our marriage work, it was a combination of things. One he is now on an anitidepressant but still doesn't like to admit that is what it is. That made all the difference in the world. He was raised in a family where anything like mental issues were seen as weakness. So it is still hard for him to accept. Second he was raised in an extremely critical enviorment and didn't see anything wrong with being the same way. He works at it constantly. 3rd his mom's job in life was to keep his dad happy so in comparison i was a failure. We have worked hard to make a happy marriage and i feel like we have one. It was not easy, but i would say stand up for yourself it is ok. You don't have to be unkind but you need to have value. I hope things get better, i know there are no easy answers. Take care.

[Maureen]

IMO, it sounds like your husband has a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality. Maybe it's neurological, or maybe he needs psychological counseling. I would ask him to see a doctor to rule out a physical or psychological reason for his strange outbursts.

[applepansy]

secretsister, welcome!!! From what you describe it sounds like he needs to see a doctor. I'm not sure you'll be able to convince him of this but maybe with the help of your bishop he would listen. The mood swings you describe are classic bipolar disorder. But abuse can also be caused by other issues and you shouldn't ever put up with it even a little bit.

You are not to blame for his behavior. You shouldn't take responsibility for it or make excuses for him. Get Help!!!

(((hugs)))

applepansy

[Dr T]

Welcome to this site :)

[applepansy]

secretsister, one more thing. . . REMEMBER: you are a daughter of your Heavenly Father. And as such you are entitled to respect from your husband.

you're in my prayers

[Palerider]

Welcome to the site......and I hope you do speak with your Bishop about this. Please don't feel like he has no time for you....if you do not feel comfortable speaking with him....confide in your Relief Society President.

[secretsister]

Your replies are exactly what I need, thank you. I have been confiding in a good friend, but I do not want to dump on her too much. She doesn't mind, but it can be emotionally draining to be around someone as needy as I am right now. So, having this new place to vent a bit will be helpful, I think.

I did confide in my branch president ( I AM the RS president.) It wasn't comfortable as at the very beginning of our marriage, my husband told me that if I ever felt the need to talk to anyone about our marriage issues, he would want me to tell him first. I promised I would. Well, I tried once and he got super upset and "convinced" me not to go. So, I talked with the BP without telling him. I feel guilty and relieved at the same time. I explained all of this to my BP and asked him not to speak to my husband about it. He is hoping for a window of opportunity to open to discuss marriage in general to see if my husband confides in him at all.

He also spoke with the Stake president about it, so it is not being dropped or ignored. They are trying to help without making it worse. I have a feeling it will eventually come down to a huge confrontation that will lead to him getting help or will lead to our end. That is so scary... right now, I'm not sure which I would want more. I had a hard life being a single parent, but I was so much happier.

Yesterday, I was so depressed, I had a hard time getting out of bed. I forced myself to go out in the garden and harvest all the beans, turnips and carrots, then I canned the carrots. He seemed in a good mood when he got home, so I went out to the garden with him and proudly showed him all I had done. He said, "You didn't pick the grapes?"

Today, I don't want to do anything. The more he criticizes, the more I become the failure he thinks I am.

I'm going to call for an appointment today with a counselor too. He has forbid it before, but now has ordered me to go. I'm glad to comply! There is not an LDS counselor I can see, but I hope to find one who will be helpful.

Again, thank you so much for the support and good suggestions and prayers.

Secretsister

[WANDERER]

Sorry. Sounds like a difficult situation to be in. Wish you well with the counselling and hope that things will get better.

[Guest ceeboo]

Hi Secretsister,

First, I am sorry to hear of your situation.

I must tell you, putting your husbands needs aside for a moment as he is not here on the board and you are, I really think you need to think of YOU for a few moments.

Considering you have only been married 1 1/2 years ( newlywed times ) and you are already seeing such utter disrespect and treatment as a woman, IMHO, I am very concerned for your future together. Sorry for being so direct. This controling, shutting you out behavior IMHO, has no place in a union of 2 people facing a broken world together.

Sorry for my opinions, as they are just that, but your post was screaming of sadness to me.

I wish you well and certainly hope things get better for you.:)

God bless,

Carl

[applepansy]

President Monson, November 1990 Ensign, Page 47

"I have always loved the words frequently quoted by President David O. McKay as he described you: “Woman was taken out of man—not out of his feet to be trampled underfoot, but out of his side to be equal to him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be loved.”

But the thought that never fails to stir my soul is the simple and sage advice: “Men should take care not to make women weep, for God counts their tears.”

[Leap]

SecretSister,

I'm so glad that you realize that what your husband is doing is wrong. (I used to work at a women's shelter) Abuse comes in many forms, and it is important for you to realize that although we are counseled to be long suffering, that does not mean putting up with abuse. You need to stand up for yourself in a righteous way, and let the consequences follow. I think you already know this. As you know, the fact that he's trying to "order" you to do anything, means that he is trying to exercise unrighteous dominion. The scriptures say "amen" to that kind of tactic. Good for you for being such a forgiving person, and trying to understand where he's coming from. All you can do is point out the truth to him, and try to persuade him to get help. Eventually he will have to make that decision himself. Until then, anytime he says something abusive, you do not have to accept it as OK.

[Guest ceeboo]

President Monson, November 1990 Ensign, Page 47

"I have always loved the words frequently quoted by President David O. McKay as he described you: “Woman was taken out of man—not out of his feet to be trampled underfoot, but out of his side to be equal to him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be loved.”

But the thought that never fails to stir my soul is the simple and sage advice: “Men should take care not to make women weep, for God counts their tears.”

Hello applepansy,

Sorry to the OP for going off topic here.

I know nothing about President Monson or President O McKay( or who they are ) but I wanted to thank you for sharing there qoutes on this.:)

I have seen many qoutes from Christian leaders that I have admired and respected.

This one you have posted, is brilliant, to say the least.:):) I would imagine they were great leaders and humble men of the LDS.:) ( IMHO ) we ALL could use alot more of these kind of MEN in our world.:)

Thanks again for sharing,

God bless,

Carl

[RainofGold]

Hello Sister,

I'm sorry to hear that you are being treated that way. Your husband as a priesthood holder should know better and treat you with respect and love. No man is perfect and no marriage is perfect, but as woman we like to feel secure and protected in our husband arms.

Please know that you are a special daughter of our Heavenly Father and you should be treated as one. Don't settle for less and don't let him make you believe that you are not special!!!

Hope everything works out for you and your family

[secretsister]

Countrygirl66,

I'm interested to know more about how you came to solutions in your marriage. My H has the same idea about mental illness being a weakness. I don't think his home life was that strict, but he was in the military for 23 years. How did you get your H to admit a need for help and get antidepressants?

How do you stand up for yourself without making it worse? The more I defend myself, the angrier he gets.

Thanks for your input.

Secretsister

[Misshalfway]

Hi Secret Sister.

I sometimes wonder if men aren't really taught how to deal with out of balance emotions. I am not even sure if some men, especially if they have something clinical going on, really know what they are feeling underneath it all let alone how to fix it or deal with it properly. I couldn't know if this is the case with your H, but it does seem like big emotions are being triggered by the tiniest of things and instead of looking within, he is blame shifting or projecting it on you. Well, that doesn't sound fair or pleasant.

I think you can stand up for yourself and create boundaries for yourself without feeling like you have to be at odds with him to do so. Perhaps a study of such could be beneficial.

I am also wondering if a visit to a therapist could help you better evaluate your H's behavior and then perhaps help you with strategies to help diffuse all the anger. Maybe then you could help create perhaps a safer environment for sharing needs and concerns without anyone feeling attacked or blamed.

One of my favorite books on healing relationships is called "Learning to Love: From Conflict to Lasting Harmony" by Don and Martha Rosenthal.

Best Wishes.

[mominzion]

Dear Sweet sister....I have a dear freind that just endured the same sort of thing you are going through. The problem for me was I was good freinds with both husband AND wife. The main thing is to stay in VERY close personal contact with your BP. You need someone to boost you up and give you support. You will feel like you have lost when you hit the point of "no resolve". So it is vital to have clear communication with him. I know my friend was scared to death to go to the bishop and endured a few intese screaming matches with her husband over it. He told her he wasn't going, but because he was so worried about saving face and "appearing to be obedient to the bishop" he showed. Also he was good deep down, he just has some unresolved personal stuff he has to work out himself. he came from an abusive mother. The thing is, your husband may not even know what is going on or why he acts the way he does.

My second bit of advice is to try to change the way you feel/respond. Some of the best advice my mother gave me is, "It takes 2 people to fight....be the bigger person and back down." This is tricky because I'm not encouraging you to absorb the blows either. You are going to have to learn that his anger is NOT directed at you. It is directed at something else that is bothering him. Whatever that may be. You are his soundboard. He is misplacing his anger. This is why you need to seek counsel from your BP at the same time. To help yourself...to build your self back up.

Also it is essential for him to seek help. Which sounds like that is what is going to happen here soon? You said the BP and Stake Pres. was aware and helping? My friend's husband told her she was the one with the prob not him....denied it when it came from her, but when he was sat down by the bishop and force to look at it and heard it from a 3rd party, he started to see the light and HIS shortcomings. You will be blue in the face if you try to express where he is wrong. Now the not so fun part....(I know the rest isn't fun either, but this is important too)... if "a" + "b" = "c" Change "b" to "x". Does that make sence? What I mean is, if what you are doing isn't working, whether it be telling him what he needs or trying to defend yourself in and argument...etc, try something else. You are the ONLY person that can change something that is bothering you. You can ask him, but that is all you can do...you can make him. Please don't take this to mean that ANYTHING is your fault, that isn't want I'm saying. This is more for survival mode, not the answer for your problem. Does that make sence? Here is an example....If he says, "This thread on my garment is dirty, you didn't clean it!" instead of retorting with "It went through the wash the same time as everything else!" say something different like, "It looks like I will have to wash that again." Avoid taking on the line he gives you that you did it wrong, or are lazy, because logically, you know that isn't right. I had to tell my freind all the time that she needed to change her responses....because she had the same tone of defense....and tried to defend what she did....never worked. She started seeing results as she changed things.

She too was questioning if she should of been sealed to him. She is a new convert and he is a forever member. I can tell you that She is stronger in faith than he.

Oh, one more thing....this helped her too....DIET! I know that sounds silly, but I have seen this in my own life! I noticed that My freinds husband was grouchier if he was hungry or if he ate a lot of carbs and little protien. I told her to feel him more frequent smaller meals.....and more protein. he will never know what you are trying to do, and he will feel like you are "taking care of him" through making sure he is fed. This sounds silly I know, but carbs can turn your mood into a beast! I've seen it in myself. Cereal is my worst enemy! I get so GROUCHY! She would slip him pepperonis and cheese sticks as afternoon snacks. Make him eggs in the morning...etc. Whenever she could boost that protien. It works. I know that is more work on you, but it has made a world of difference in their fighting frequency & intensity.

My heart goes out to you. You are obviously a strong woman. Remember to try to stay that way. Remember that you are precious to the Lord......Remember that he loves you both. No one but your BP can advice you on continuing on to the temple together or not. We love you and pray for you.

[countrygirl66]

hi secret sister

It took a long time and many try and fail things. Ultimately what happened and i think this is common with depression he started to have other health issues. I started going to the doctor with him. When we were at a doctors appointment (i had prayed a lot for the strength to do this), I just blurted it all out to the doctor that I thought he was depressed and it was affecting his other health. (important to note that he felt like i had betrayed him by saying it outloud in front of the doctor) He was definitely raised in the don't air your dirty laundry in public setting. Finally the doctor had the information (i think my h would have never been able to verbalize it) and he gave him zoloft to try and see how he felt. Interestingly his overall health improved so it gave my h a physical reason to take it (he says he takes it so he won't be dizzy) but the overall effect was a major change in our relationship. Now that he was able to function better we could begin to work on other things in our marriage. It has not been easy and we still have our ups and downs, but it has been worth it. My h father had such a huge influence on him as a child that i think it is the main reason that he will never admit to mental illness, however I have been able to track the behavior through the family. His grandpa, father, him, his sister. It is interesting that once he started using antidepressants so did his sister because it kind of made it ok. We joke about it now off and on and are ok with the subject. His doctor asked him last year if he wanted to try not taking the zoloft and he said you will have to take that discussion up with my wife. It wasn't a magic answer but it gave us the ability to work forward. My h isn't someone that will probably ever go to therapy and I have to stand my ground on certain things 1. he takes the pills no exceptions. (i have even pointed out to him that it isn't worth being dizzy) 2. we go out on the weekend even if it is a malt at mcdonalds.(i need to destress and so does he even though he thinks he doesn't) 3. He cares a lot of what people think so i do not betray his confidences when he finally tells me about something that happened that affected him deeply. Our marriage almost broke over this and I had to do a lot of praying and soul searching to know what was right for me. I had to pray daily to see what heavenly father saw (a child of his struggling to find his way in the dark). That didn't mean to excuse his behavior but i finally got to a point that even if our marriage didn't suceed i wanted to see him find a better way to live. (make any sense?) It is interesting to me that (my h was an unbeleviable name caller without the meds) he doesn't have any memory of the things he said or the names he called me. He in later years has apologized but really has no memory of it. (I think that was a part of the issue he was behaving like a wounded animal at times) I just wanted my h that i fell in love with. Take gentle care of yourself.

[mominzion]

I agree with the last post....I watched my father suffer with the same sort of thing. he was put on zoloft and that changed his life. When he and my mom fought, he would call her ugly names and was really hurtful. He HONESTLY doesn't remember doing these sort of things. That bugged me and I asked a doctor about it one time and he said that some people have a chemical imbalance so intense that when they get angry, it overloads them and makes the "grey out" therefore making them not remember what happened. Kind of like their body's way of protecting them. He said it was like a little seizure in the brain. Not big enough to cause damamge, but on that makes recall impossible. My dad was a wonderful man. He was a spiritual giant in life. He had MANY friends, but when he would get ugly...it was like BOOM! This is why I was so perplexed. he had over 500 people attend his funeral (that is just those we counted in the book. There was no seating left in our chapel and over flows. It was amazing. That testified to me that he was a good person! I miss him dearly. I think what you will find is a vicious cycle too. They get mad at the stuff they do remember themselves doing and that makes them get ugly in general. over and over they do this.

[MorningStar]

What a hard situation! It actually sounds like he might have undiagnosed OCD and doesn't handle it well. My sister-in-law has OCD and she panics at the silliest things. When we were staying with her sister for Christmas, I had just done some laundry and put it in a pile next to our stuff. Well, she was terrified that it was a pile of dirty laundry. What's so scary about dirty laundry? I don't know, but the disorder involves irrational fear. I wondered if she realized we were all technically wearing dirty laundry. At her parents' house, she gets so angry with herself over the disorder preventing her enjoyment of life, she has punched holes in their walls and doors. (And the rest of us are thinking, "Hi, will you please go home and punch holes in your own place so your poor parents don't have to deal with it?")

A person with OCD who is single can live life any way they want in their own environment, but add a spouse and they suddenly have a situation where they feel out of control and it's ridiculous for someone who suffers from it to expect their spouse to live up to their impossible standards. My sister-in-law's OCD got 10 times worse when she got married.

There are three things that stood out to me - freaking out over a string on his garments (It's dirty?), requiring the grapes to be scrubbed, and him thinking the counter isn't clean enough and requiring you to make his sandwiches on a paper towel. Your examples all involved concerns with cleanliness. My response would be, "Do the laundry yourself then, wash the grapes yourself, make your own sandwiches, and you clean the counter since you have such superior cleaning skills." If he doesn't like that, I would tell him he needs to see a doctor because I think he is overly concerned with things being perfectly clean.

[HiJolly]

Sounds like he's manic depressive (ie, bipolar).

Bipolar disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

HiJolly

[secretsister]

Also it is essential for him to seek help. Which sounds like that is what is going to happen here soon? You said the BP and Stake Pres. was aware and helping?

They want to help, but are not sure how. I don't want my husband to know I've talked with my BP. I realize that it may come to the point where I have to let him know or they will need to confront him, but it's scary. I would do it in a heartbeat if I was sure it would help, but my fear is that it will damage our marriage even more.

if "a" + "b" = "c" Change "b" to "x".

This makes a lot of sense and I have tried some various responses. He gets in moods where he "picks" at me. He criticizes a lot of things I do and acts irritated with me a lot. I can usually last about three days worth, then I start getting irritated in my responses. This is the "permission" he needs to blow up and blame me for it because of my "tone." This last time, he was simmering for about three weeks. I was proud that I kept my cool, but then, I thought it was over as he was in a good mood again, but no... the sudden blow up with no warning at all. I am really thinking he has a mood disorder of some kind.

I am trying to get an appointment with a counselor now. I realize I need help learning how to change b to x! My H is such a smart man and my brain does not comprehend how he can ask such dumb questions, so I think he's asking to annoy me or because he is annoyed with me. Questions like, "Why is there water on your shoulder?" Answer: Because I just got out of the shower and my hair is wet. Can a man actually watch a woman combing her wet hair and NOT know why there are drops of water on her shoulder? I call this his "Duh" mood. It precedes the blow up, usually.

I've been having a super hard time getting over this last episode, which was almost three weeks ago. He's better and acting nice, but I just can't act happy as if nothing happened. Up until now, I've just tried to forgive him and move on, hoping it would just get better as he learned to trust me... I guess I was thinking it was an adjustment period for him. Well, I have my own background with my own emotional issues. So when he told me I was "completely useless," and didn't do anything right, it hurt a lot. I guess I've been giving 200%, yet knowing it isn't enough. So, his statement confirmed it. Then, I was praying when he walked into our room and he told me, "That won't help you." I've tried to tell him, now that he's in a normal mood, how much he hurt me, but he refuses to listen. He gets defensive and denies saying what he said. He tells me I make things up.

Last night, he said he was worried about me as I've been depressed. He said he hopes I feel happier soon. Then he told me he feels like it's all his fault. That surprised me. I didn't want to hit him by rehashing all the things he's done to hurt me... I guess deep down he knows. I just said, "I know you don't mean it." He didn't say anything else and I didn't know what to say. I see him trying to hold in his anger. I think that's why he simmered for three weeks this last time. I think he's trying to overcome it, but it eventually gets the best of him. He occasionally jokes about being in his "manic" mood or some other joke about a mood disorder. Maybe he's trying to feel me out on what I think of it. A few times, it has been natural for me to make a comment about how I think it's acceptable for someone with that problem to take meds. I want him to know I would not think he's weak if he needed meds.

CountryGirl, thank you for your input too. It helps to know I'm not alone. I wish someone had a magic wand. I don't like to hear, "It's not easy." But, that is the reality and I'm happy for the support and encouragement.

Secretsister

[applepansy]

SecretSister,

I'm very concerned for your safety. You need support and safety. Sweetheart, you don't have a "marriage". You are married, but a marriage is a union which combines a man and a woman in love. When one partner is abusive and the other one is always walking on eggshells waiting for the next blowup. . . well, that's not love.

I do not doubt you love him. And he may tell himself and you that he loves you. However, NOBODY treats someone they truly love like you're being treated. I read your posts and I hear the signs of "battered wife syndrome" ... I don't know if he's become physically abusive or not and it doesn't matter. You are most definitely being verbally battered. Is it going to have to become physical before you realize the damage that is being done to you and your child? And make no mistake about it, he will become physically abusive. You've described all the signs.

Even if he's not being abusive directly to your child, he is being absive to your child's Mother and that's abusing your child. What is this behavior between parents teaching your child? What is your "acceptance" of this behavior teaching your child. Remember your child can't read your mind.

Please! Please! Do something to protect yourself, or if nothing else, your child until he gets help. Its past time that he knows you've gone to the Bishop... As long as you maintain the status quo, he's not going to seek permanent change in his behavior.

Sometimes changing B to X means removing yourself until B becomes X. I'm not advocating divorce....just the opposite. Take the steps you need to take now so that you can save your marriage before his behavior gets further out of hand.

Another thought, we teach people how to treat us. There was a time when I didn't believe this, but its true. Your response to his bad behavior has not left a significant impression on him to make him see the need to change.

with love,

applepansy