When, and Why?? Ward Boundaries

[rockwoodchev]

Hi,

I've got lots of theories as to why we have the ward-boundary process we do now, but does anyone know the real reason? Every other church in the world just picks a building to attend and if you want to switch, you can. I'd rather have the history rather than "That is the way our early leaders set it up and our position is just to follow". I'd really like to understand why things were set up the way they were.

Thanks,

[mnn727]

Actually the Catholic Church is the same with parishes and diocese, although they don't seem to enforce it as much.

Our churches don't have ministers so unlike Protestant Churches I have visited there is no popularity factor of finding someone you like to hear preach or who preaches what you want to hear.

Our Churches all teach the same things on pretty much the same weeks, using the same lesson books so 'finding the right Church' (ie the one that teaches what you want to hear) is also not a factor.

Staying within your ward hinges on the fact that we believe God, through revelation, lets you use your talents or gain new ones where you are.

[Jenamarie]

It's a Civic term. When a city is formed it is sub-divided into smaller sections. I can't remember exactly why, just that that's what's done, and the term for those sub-divisions used to be wards. Think of New Orleans, how there's still the Ninth Ward there, that's still a part of New Orleans.

Anyway, Nauvoo was set up similarly, and people who lived in the city's Wards were formed into congregations that matched the civic Ward boundaries, so the civic term was adopted for the congregations. It was then carried over to Utah.

And we are Wards of Zion. And Stakes of Zion. A part of the Kingdom of God here on Earth. Zion is a physical place.

I personally like the way it's set up. I recall hearing Marlin K. Jensen compare it to families. You don't get to choose what kind of family you're born into and are put into the position of learning how to deal with different types of people. The same is true of wards. You have a mix of people, some of whom you possibly wouldn't choose to associate with otherwise, and are made to work with them and get along with them.

With other churches, there's "church shopping" where people look for a church who's doctrines and congregations they feel they most fit in with. So you end up with congregations of mostly young families, or mostly seniors, or congregations of mostly Republicans or mostly Democrats, or whatever similarity (besides belief in the Gospel) they feel draws them together. There's not as much intergration. And sometimes the "church shopping" can take months, so you're missing out on valuable time recieving gospel instruction.

I think it also makes Home and Visiting Teaching more managable, if you have people visiting eachother who all live within a certain distance of eachother. Of course there are still wards who have very large boundaries, but it's not EVERY ward that has people scattered every which way across the city.

[miztrniceguy]

There are several reasons. For record keeping purposes, like tithing, ordinances, callings, etc. Also, there is a need to insure there are enough Priesthood holders in a given ward to fill the necessary callings. That's why my current ward is part of a stake to the south, even though I live one street over from the stake center that we have our meeting at.

[Palerider]

sometimes boundaries are set up according to School Districts....this allows the youth to go to school and church together..

[john doe]

There a lot of things that go into the boundaries, such as number of active members and number of active priesthood leaders available. Civic and school boundaries are also considered in the decision process. The geographic size of the units are also factors in many areas. I believe the recommendations of local leaders are taken into account. I believe several possible alignments with pros and cons of each may submitted by stake leaders to area authorities who make the ultimate decision.

[rockwoodchev]

Hi,

I'd never heard of the civic thing before. I know that in New Orleans they have the different districts setup. I'd never heard that sort of thing had been adopted in the early LDS cities. Do you have any references or anything to reference? I'd like to learn more.

Honestly, I know all the other stuff about why it is good (and often why it just plain stinks to have to stay within a ward) but the civic history about city layout is very interesting.

Thanks Jenamarie, that is the exact answer I was looking for. If you have any references, I'd love to see them.

[Jenamarie]

Rough Stone Rolling (the Biography of Joseph Smith), and Wikipedia.

[Palerider]

Rough Stone Rolling (the Biography of Joseph Smith), and Wikipedia.

thats a great book.....:)

[abqfriend]

Up until Vatican II, Catholics were required to attend the Catholicc Church in their geographic area-which was called the "parish church" This geographic concept is still used governmentally in Louisiana where counties are called "parishes."

Since Vatican II, Catholics may attend and register at any Catholic Church of their choosing. The "parish" is less a geographic area today-and more related to the people that are served by the Church.

Some of our churches have schools, some focus more on ministry to the young or elderly. Different orders of priests such as Jesuit, Dominican may be the order of priests at a parish, and that may change-slightly- the emphasis of the parish. I agree with Mnn that all our churches have the same Bible/Sacred Scripture readings worldwide each and every Sunday and weekday, and the structure of our liturgy/Mass is the same world-wide as well.

-Carol

Actually the Catholic Church is the same with parishes and diocese, although they don't seem to enforce it as much.

Our churches don't have ministers so unlike Protestant Churches I have visited there is no popularity factor of finding someone you like to hear preach or who preaches what you want to hear.

Our Churches all teach the same things on pretty much the same weeks, using the same lesson books so 'finding the right Church' (ie the one that teaches what you want to hear) is also not a factor.

Staying within your ward hinges on the fact that we believe God, through revelation, lets you use your talents or gain new ones where you are.

[Moksha]

What if everybody tried to attend the Church where the good speakers are at? My ward would be empty.

[Palerider]

what If Everybody Tried To Attend The Church Where The Good Speakers Are At? My Ward Would Be Empty.

Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mnn727]

Since Vatican II, Catholics may attend and register at any Catholic Church of their choosing. The "parish" is less a geographic area today-and more related to the people that are served by the Church.

-Carol

Ok, so I am a few decades out of date Thanks for the info, My wife was Catholic and I know she and her parents always stayed at the parish they lived in. I was first married in the Catholic Church and have been to Mass many times and attended a number of classes prior to being allowed to marry there (having been raised Protestant). I wasn't aware that had changed -- but then I never asked either, thanks!

[NateHowe]

For those who may waver on this point, I can think of a few reasons to attend the ward you are assigned:

• Community. Generally, your ward is organized to contain people who live within in a similar geographic area. They have more in common with you than just their religion.
• Stewardship. The Bishop and other leaders of your ward are given stewardship over your family's spiritual well-being. By attending a ward outside your own, you circumvent this divinely inspired arrangement. These leaders are accountable for how they care for you, and you should sustain them in their roles.
• Influence. You have been placed in a ward to influence others as well as to be influenced for good. Whether you like your ward or not, there is work for you to do there. In my experience, the "strong" wards I have attended have afforded fewer spiritually building experiences. If you are in a ward you don't enjoy, perhaps it is because you have a job to do there.
• Strength. "When thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren." A ward is designed to be large enough to accommodate the needs of the membership, but small enough to provide community and individual attention. If your ward is small, it needs your strength to help it grow. If it is large, it may need your strength to help it split.
• Obedience. If we do what the Lord commands through the leaders of His Church (even local leaders), we will be blessed. But if we give that gift grudgingly, it may profit us nothing. Attending the correct ward is a small token of obedience, but if the Lord asked some great thing, would we not do it?

[rameumptom]

It all comes down to priesthood quorums and jurisdiction. A bishop must be established over a people to be their judge. Home teaching is more effective when the boundaries are established within a specific geography. Issues such as worthiness interviews, calling jurisdiction, and keys are all addressed by having geographical jurisdictions.

This also discourages congregation hopping. If I don't like a certain bishop, I just hop over to another ward. I don't like the "make up" of a ward, so I just move to a whiter district of town (this happens in many Christian churches, where legal segregation still occurs).

What happens when an unpopular bishop loses his entire ward to a popular bishop? Do we close the ward and then divide the overpopulated popular one, wherein we call another bishop?

Our organization requires stability for units in order to accomplish the work of God. In other churches, pastors are hired and fired for being popular or disliked. If a pastor doesn't attract his congregation, the church can wither and die. Our program is not to interview and hire a pastor for pay, but to call by inspiration a bishop to work and still pay 10% tithes. I've known many bishops who have lacked interpersonal skills, but were wonderful in other ways, and I know they were called of God. But they would not have survived as a pastor in another church.

[Maureen]

With other churches, there's "church shopping" where people look for a church who's doctrines and congregations they feel they most fit in with.

This can also apply to LDS. Let's say there's an LDS family who is planning on moving to a different city. They have friends in the new city who go to a ward that they like and rave about. The LDS family decide to move into the ward their friends are in so that they can attend the same ward. Alas, another form of church shopping. :)

[Palerider]

I have had several of my Baptist friends tell me when they are Church shopping they want to hear the sermon by the Pastor so they can see if they agree with things that he says...for example-politics.

[rameumptom]

This can also apply to LDS. Let's say there's an LDS family who is planning on moving to a different city. They have friends in the new city who go to a ward that they like and rave about. The LDS family decide to move into the ward their friends are in so that they can attend the same ward. Alas, another form of church shopping. :)

But once they've chosen their ward, they are geographically bound to it until they move again.

Not so with most other churches.

[Hemidakota]

Not only there are ward boundaries but to add additional boundaries - stake, regional, and area boundaries. The Savior is well organized in the affairs of the FATHER's business.

[abqfriend]

The Savior is indeed well organized----but what about the people?

In the The LDS Church-as far as I can determine-a bishop acts similarly to a priest in the Catholic Church-in that he is in charge of/responsible for the people in his church/chapel.

That said-when a chapel/church/congregation has problems-what happens? Is the church/chapel allowed to dwindle in size and participation-or is corrective action taken?

In the Catholic Church-much of the time-the problem is not with the people/ parish/congregation---but that the leadership is weak or ineffective.

How is that issue addressed in the LDS Church?

Leadership --or the lack of it will lead to congregational growth or decline.

-Carol

Not only there are ward boundaries but to add additional boundaries - stake, regional, and area boundaries. The Savior is well organized in the affairs of the FATHER's business.

[Hemidakota]

The Savior is indeed well organized----but what about the people?

In the The LDS Church-as far as I can determine-a bishop acts similarly to a priest in the Catholic Church-in that he is in charge of/responsible for the people in his church/chapel.

That said-when a chapel/church/congregation has problems-what happens? Is the church/chapel allowed to dwindle in size and participation-or is corrective action taken?

In the Catholic Church-much of the time-the problem is not with the people/ parish/congregation---but that the leadership is weak or ineffective.

How is that issue addressed in the LDS Church?

Leadership --or the lack of it will lead to congregational growth or decline.

-Carol

Leading Parish Priest of that area?

A Bishop is not only in-charge over the members of the ward boundaries but those who are not members also.

If one looks across the veil, you will find this same setup within those cities.

[Maureen]

But once they've chosen their ward, they are geographically bound to it until they move again.Not so with most other churches.

Most of the people I know that when they decide to pick a church family, they stick with it, even if the church changes locations. A pentecostal church I used to attend when my kids were very young, eventually built themselves a new, bigger building and for many members it was a longer drive, but they still attend, to this very day. Non-LDS church members are not as different as you might think to LDS church members.

[Jbs2763]

outside of the "bubble" i think it is more geographical...like my branch.. covers the majority of my county, excpet for 2 townships

[abqfriend]

I don't know much about across the veil.

But my question is the same -this side of the veil--what do you do with an in-effective or poor bishop/leader of your church/ward?

Leading Parish Priest of that area?

A Bishop is not only in-charge over the members of the ward boundaries but those who are not members also.

If one looks across the veil, you will find this same setup within those cities.

[Hemidakota]

The Lord either removes them after a given allotted time or may teach them by using effective councilors. :)