What makes a prophet?

[rockwoodchev]

Hi,

I was reading one of the other threads about authority and prophets and thought I'd post a question I had from reading the Old Testament. There were many of the OT prophets who are now setup a full doctrinal parts of scripture, who never had any authority as we would today call authority. Many of the OT books are included and to be honest, there is little understanding as to who these guys were, where they came from, or where they might have gotten their authority. If I spend 30 minutes doing some research back into CES material that I taught last year, I'm sure I can find plenty of examples, but was wondering if anyone knew and answer to this.

Thanks

[Traveler]

Hi,

I was reading one of the other threads about authority and prophets and thought I'd post a question I had from reading the Old Testament. There were many of the OT prophets who are now setup a full doctrinal parts of scripture, who never had any authority as we would today call authority. Many of the OT books are included and to be honest, there is little understanding as to who these guys were, where they came from, or where they might have gotten their authority. If I spend 30 minutes doing some research back into CES material that I taught last year, I'm sure I can find plenty of examples, but was wondering if anyone knew and answer to this.

Thanks

A testimony of Jesus (Revelation 19:10) Note that knowledge and understanding of scripture and the correct context of scripture or agreeing with scripture is not a requirement.

The Traveler

Edited September 28, 2008 by Traveler

[rockwoodchev]

So... based on what you mention above, it does not appear that a person must be able to prove and show direct authority. Based on what we learn of Old Testament prophets there must be prophets who is able to do the things that you mention. This must be limited to only those who show direct "laying on of hands" if you use the Old Testament as a guide.

I'll agree with your definition as it is truly reflective of what we learn from the OT, leverage into the NT, was taught in the BOM and is practiced today.

Cool. Thanks!

[Prodigal_Son]

Go to Deseret Book and look at how many good works are published by people who are right, who are accurate... but who are not set-apart prophets.

Though their callings are not so in title, does this diminish the significance of their work?

[Misshalfway]

I was always taught that there was a difference between a prophet .... and a prophet, seer, and revelator. When we use the word prophet today, most of the time I think we mean the latter.

[Justice]

The call from God, the same as anyone else who legally serves in the Church.

[rockwoodchev]

So... I'm not really talking about today though. I'm talking about the prophets of the old testament. Why does it appear that all it took was for someone to be the self-proclaimed prophet in their area and the name stuck, their words are now included as scripture.

I fully understand the narrow line of passing the mantle from one prophet to another TODAY and how none other than our prophet could ever be a prophet. I'm asking about why our own doctrine shows prophets who DID NOT FOLLOW THIS PROCESS. Namely most of the OT Prophets.

[NateHowe]

Listen to Hugh B. Brown's talk Profile of a Prophet. It's available for free from Speeches Website

[geraldsmith]

Thomas Monson is God's representative ONLY for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He has no other authority. Revelation is used by the Church to suit the occasion or the change of rules.

[pam]

Thomas Monson is God's representative ONLY for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He has no other authority. Revelation is used by the Church to suit the occasion or the change of rules.

I would have to disagree with that. My personal belief is he is called to be a Prophet of God. Yes he may be called to be the President of the LDS Church...but as prophet he has a stewardship over every one on the earth. No matter the religion.

He receives revelation for everyone. Now whether people of other religions choose to believe that is of course their choice and I understand their reasonings. Doesn't change it though.

But why would revelation of any kind ONLY apply to LDS members?

Editing as I wanted to add something here. To say that revelation is given only to suit the occasion or change the rules is, to me, rather a derogatory statement. Have we not always been taught that things will be revealed as the Lord feels we are ready for them? Not given to just change rules. That puts out the idea that revelation is really not revelation at all but merely an excuse to change rules. Not a good thing to be putting out at all because it's simply not true.

Edited October 1, 2008 by pam

[Guest ceeboo]

But why would revelation of any kind ONLY apply to LDS members?

Hello Pam " head moderator lady "

I would agree with that and I'm not even an LDS member :)

[BenRaines]

Ditto to what Pam said.

Ben Raines

[HoosierGuy]

I would have to disagree with that. My personal belief is he is called to be a Prophet of God. Yes he may be called to be the President of the LDS Church...but as prophet he has a stewardship over every one on the earth. No matter the religion.

He receives revelation for everyone. Now whether people of other religions choose to believe that is of course their choice and I understand their reasonings. Doesn't change it though.

Right on Pam. President Monson is the one and true Prophet of God who holds all the keys (or more than anybody else on earth.)

When the Prophet says something, that does not mean we have to do it. We can pray about it and see what the answer is - follow the Prophet or do not follow the Prophet.

[rockwoodchev]

Hi,

Wasn't the Word of Wisdom given only to the Saints? We don't expect that doctrine, and I would assume if Pres Monson gave a talk on the WOW, that would, or would not apply to everyone.

I'll state that most of what was said earlier is true, except for WOW. And it assumes that we are still free-thinking people who are able to have flexibility on how we choose to live.

[pam]

Hi,

Wasn't the Word of Wisdom given only to the Saints? We don't expect that doctrine, and I would assume if Pres Monson gave a talk on the WOW, that would, or would not apply to everyone.

I'll state that most of what was said earlier is true, except for WOW. And it assumes that we are still free-thinking people who are able to have flexibility on how we choose to live.

Again I would disagree though I respect your thoughts on the subject. Why would the WOW not apply to everyone? It's sound advise on healthy living. Everyone, even LDS have the choice to accept and do as the Prophet advises or not.

When the WofW was initially revealed, it was in response to Joseph and Emma's disgust to smoke filled rooms and spitting of chew on the floor. Joseph went to the Lord for advise. Joseph was a Prophet of God. Again the prophet has stewardship over everyone not just LDS. To me doesn't necessarily mean only to the Saints. Though Joseph was speaking to the Saints at the time as that's who it initially applied to.

Edited October 1, 2008 by pam

[rockwoodchev]

Hi Pam,

I guess the reason I've always felt this way from sec 89, it clearly states that this section is given as word of council to the saints. I've taught and been taught for all my life that the WOW is a standard for church. Now, it is also good council for everyone to follow a good code of health, but as to following the WOW with the restrictions we've been given, I've never been taught that a non-LDS person who smokes or drinks is sinning. But I have been taught that a LDS person who does those same things is in trouble as far as status in the church.

So... that we can agree and clarify. I stated that as a commandment, it is only given to church members, but as a sound health code, it could serve as advice for all people which as I understand is your position.

Humm... Do you know if church members, on average, are more overweight than non LDS? Isn't that part of the WOW and advice for more healthy living.

Take care

Edited October 1, 2008 by rockwoodchev

[pam]

Thanks...I understand more your point now. Now as far as your question about statistics...no idea.

[bert10]

Hi Rockwoodchev...

What makes a prophet and authority are two different things.

First John was taught on what makes a prophet and taught us in Revelation.....

Prophets are they who have the Spirit of Prophecy and who does have a Spirit of Prophecy?

Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Moses knew this long ago when tired and exhausted he stated.....

Numbers 11:29 - And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

A prophet is a person who has a testimony of Jesus Christ...because such testimony is by the Spirit of Prophecy. As Moses said...that the LORD would put His Spirit upon them.

Now Authority.....Not all prophets are called to prophesy to nations and people. Some are required to be prophets only to their families. This is because the husband and the Father already has Spiritual authority over his family. So he can be a prophet to his family.

At this time....A prophet's authority resides normally only with the people GOD Gives Him to lead.

Peace be unto you

bert10

Hi,

I was reading one of the other threads about authority and prophets and thought I'd post a question I had from reading the Old Testament. There were many of the OT prophets who are now setup a full doctrinal parts of scripture, who never had any authority as we would today call authority. Many of the OT books are included and to be honest, there is little understanding as to who these guys were, where they came from, or where they might have gotten their authority. If I spend 30 minutes doing some research back into CES material that I taught last year, I'm sure I can find plenty of examples, but was wondering if anyone knew and answer to this.

Thanks

[rockwoodchev]

Hi Bert10.

Great response. Thanks.

Can you please place into context the things you mentioned as it relates to the group of OT prophets called the Minor Prophets. I'm thinking people like Titus and folks like that. I like the quote from Moses indicating that they became a prophet because they were of the Lords people, and he would put the spirit of authority on them.

That gives me the right area to look into more about this. Thanks for the pointer. Gives me something to work from.

\\\

[bmy-]

Thomas Monson is God's representative ONLY for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He has no other authority. Revelation is used by the Church to suit the occasion or the change of rules.

He has authority over whomever chooses to listen. His reach spreads far past the confines of the LDS church.

[bert10]

Moses wished that the Lord's people were worthy enough to receive the Spirit of Christ so that they themselves could be counseled by the Lord instead they coming to Moses to receive a law to regulate their conducts.

Remember the laws are given to condemn men. It is written that if we are led by the Spirit we are not under the law. So it is much better to walk by individual counsels from God than from Commandments.

The Father Himself wishes to teach us individually. It is His will that all men be taught of God. So no man can be taught of GOD if they do not first learn to be led by the Spirit.

Minor, Major prophets....

A prophet is a prophet is a prophet. What can differ between prophets is their mission and priesthood authority. I have forgotten how the term minor and major prophets came to be. To be sure it came from man not God.

John 6:45 - It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

One Day, all men shall know the Lord.

Hebrews 8:11 - And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Peace be unto you

bert10