We have met our worse enemy and it is us (Pogo).

[Traveler]

On 9-11 a terrible tragedy was suffered as the twin towers in New York’s Wall Street district was destroyed. We were all struck with anger and frustration to learn that in many areas of the world there was dancing in the streets. As I talked to people (especially in the middle east) there was sorrow over the loss of life but joy and excitement over an effort to strike at the core of what many think of as a corrupt and evil financial institution of Western Civilization. At the time I really did not understand. The words of one friend caused to me ponder when he said that in time the good citizens of America would come to realize the evil that lurks beneath the surface of our banking system.

Now we are staring into the eyes of what has become to be known as corporate greed. Many are calling this the failure of capitalism. As I have studied this problem I have come to the following conclusions.

. This did not happen because of lack of regulation – It happened because of the wrong kind of regulation.

. No laws were broken. In fact the failures of Fanny May and Freddy Mac are directly resulted from laws intended to give poor access to financial markets. This was not capitalism at work but rather the opposite – it happened because of social engineering at work.

. The current financial problems do not come from interest rates. Interesting that the markets are not making very much profit off of interest rates but rather from fees and other charges. Banks have learned that much money can be made from fees associated with refinancing loans than can be made from the interests. So much so that banks could be profitable without any interest. Fees make the most money. Finding legal way to charge fees can result in as much as 20% per month (close to 250% annually) of invested funds. 5% or 6% interested on money invested is small potatoes. The point is that mortgages did not fail because people could not pay principle and interest. They failed because of excessive fees which was the great loop hole that would destroy the unwary.

. Investing based on fees and charges are the great secret greed of current banking. Speculation based on such practices creates two problems. One because it depends on the fees being paid which offer no social or added value. And two because if the fees are not paid the entire house of cards comes apart. (which is what we are now seeing.)

The point I want to make is that the falling of Wall Street Markets will have greater ill effect on western life than the destruction of the twin towers. It will do more to divide citizens, destroy confidence in freedoms and liberty and attract more corruption in corporate and political institutions.

If I were an enemy that wanted to destroy the USA, I would realize that the citizens of the USA will destroy themselves more quickly, with less risk than open warfare. The USA has embraced business practices that are more effective method of ruin than thermal nuclear war. And politically our representatives cannot contain themselves over who can more surely guarantee that our enemy within remains intact.

The Traveler

Edited September 28, 2008 by Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

If I were an enemy that wanted to destroy the USA, I would realize that the citizens of the USA will destroy themselves more quickly, with less risk than open warfare. The USA has embraced business practices that are more effective method of ruin than thermal nuclear war.

I wouldn't mind one little bit, if our enemies were to adopt that realization, if it led to them leaving us the heck alone.

I'm not going to hold my breath though.

LM

[Palerider]

I wouldn't mind one little bit, if our enemies were to adopt that realization, if it led to them leaving us the heck alone.

I'm not going to hold my breath though.

LM

what about all the countries that run to us when they have a crisis???.....tell them to leave us alone to.....:)

[FunkyTown]

I wouldn't mind one little bit, if our enemies were to adopt that realization, if it led to them leaving us the heck alone.

I'm not going to hold my breath though.

LM

So... When was the last time an attack took place on US soil?

[Traveler]

So... When was the last time an attack took place on US soil?

Yesterday on Wall Street.

The Traveler

[FunkyTown]

Hahah... Wait... You're saying that greedy people, afraid of losing money, pulled out their funds and that's a terrorist attack? That's people being dumb. It's not a terrorist attack, it's a flaw inherent in capitalism.

[WANDERER]

From the other side of the ocean...yep we have regulation ...or a fancy word for continuous bailout *shhhh*. Bet it's not going to do spit.

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

Seems strange that the same folks who so vociferously reject socialized medicine are pushing socialized banking down our throats.

[SMG]

Seems strange that the same folks who so vociferously reject socialized medicine are pushing socialized banking down our throats.

I was thinking the same darn thing! Of the two, I'd rather have the socialized medicine coverage. At least that way, my mother and sister wouldn't struggle so badly with their medical and medication costs!

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

We have met our worse enemy and it is us (Pogo).

Close but no cigar. What Pogo actually said was:

We have met the enemy and he is us.

50 points (or a cigar) to the first one who recalls who Pogo was quoting.

[rastler000]

Seems strange that the same folks who so vociferously reject socialized medicine are pushing socialized banking down our throats.

Indeed.

[Traveler]

Seems strange that the same folks who so vociferously reject socialized medicine are pushing socialized banking down our throats.

If we follow what is going on in Washington (Island of misfit toys) there are three main factions.

1. Those that do not want to bail-out anyone.

2. Those that want to bail out Banks.

3. Those that want to maintain a requirement of unqualified mortgage loans within any government bail-out.

It is not a surprise but the socialized medicine group is the same as those involved in #3 above. Those that oppose socialized medicine are divided between # 1 and #2.

It is my opinion that had we not had a government mandate for #3 the current crises would not have taken place – I also believe if those that support #3 succeed we will revisit this problem at some future time. I do not believe that fixing the problem should be left to those that had a hand in creating or supporting the cause.

The Traveler

[Iggy]

Close but no cigar. What Pogo actually said was:

We have met the enemy and he is us.

50 points (or a cigar) to the first one who recalls who Pogo was quoting.

Oliver Hazard Perry

"We have met the enemy and they are ours". It first appeared in a poster for the first Earth Day in April 1970, and next in the comic strip itself in August 1970 in Porky Pine's mouth, and was re-used by Kelly in a subsequent Earth Day poster (1971), and further strips and in the title of the 1972 Pogo: We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us book.

I'll take a shiny star rather than points or a stinky cigar

[austro-libertarian]

On 9-11 a terrible tragedy was suffered as the twin towers in New York’s Wall Street district was destroyed. We were all struck with anger and frustration to learn that in many areas of the world there was dancing in the streets. As I talked to people (especially in the middle east) there was sorrow over the loss of life but joy and excitement over an effort to strike at the core of what many think of as a corrupt and evil financial institution of Western Civilization. At the time I really did not understand. The words of one friend caused to me ponder when he said that in time the good citizens of America would come to realize the evil that lurks beneath the surface of our banking system.

It is true that the banking system is evil. But this is because of the Central Bank (Federal Reserve in the US) and its power to create money out of thin air. It is only because of this power that the US can go to war so easily. A $3,000,000,000,000 a year Iraq war would not be supported if every US citizen had to pay the $10,000 annual price tag to fund it. There would be another revolution and Bush would be laughed out of office. But the Federal Reserve controls the money supply and can turn on the printing press, or just had some '000s electronically. (Think Bank Bailout.)

This is why these statements of Thomas Jefferson were so prescient:

"I sincerely believe ... that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity under the name of funding is but swindling futurity on a large scale." -- Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1816.

"Paper is poverty,... it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself." -- Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1788.

"Scenes are now to take place as will open the eyes of credulity and of insanity itself, to the dangers of a paper medium abandoned to the discretion of avarice and of swindlers." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814.

"I now deny [the Federal Government's] power of making paper money or anything else a legal tender." -- Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1798.

"The maxim of buying nothing without the money in our pockets to pay for it would make of our country one of the happiest on earth." --Thomas Jefferson to Alexander Donald, 1787.

"Every discouragement should be thrown in the way of men who undertake to trade without capital." --Thomas Jefferson to Nathaniel Tracy, 1785.

"I am an enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but coin." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814.

"It is said that our paper is as good as silver, because we may have silver for it at the bank where it issues. This is not true. One, two, or three persons might have it; but a general application would soon exhaust their vaults, and leave a ruinous proportion of their paper in its intrinsic worthless form." --Thomas Jefferson to John W. Eppes, 1813.

"Everything predicted by the enemies of banks, in the beginning, is now coming to pass. We are to be ruined now by the deluge of bank paper. It is cruel that such revolutions in private fortunes should be at the mercy of avaricious adventurers, who, instead of employing their capital, if any they have, in manufactures, commerce, and other useful pursuits, make it an instrument to burden all the interchanges of property with their swindling profits, profits which are the price of no useful industry of theirs." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814.

"We are now taught to believe that legerdemain tricks upon paper can produce as solid wealth as hard labor in the earth. It is vain for common sense to urge that nothing can produce but nothing; that it is an idle dream to believe in a philosopher's stone which is to turn everything into gold, and to redeem man from the original sentence of his Maker, 'in the sweat of his brow shall he eat his bread.'" --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816.

"The incorporation of a bank and the powers assumed [by legislation doing so] have not, in my opinion, been delegated to the United States by the Constitution. They are not among the powers specially enumerated." --Thomas Jefferson: Opinion on Bank, 1791.

"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."

You can look to any Ron Paul quote to hear similar warnings.

Edited November 9, 2008 by austro-libertarian

[JohnBirchSociety]

It is true that the banking system is evil. But this is because of the Central Bank (Federal Reserve in the US) and its power to create money out of thin air. It is only because of this power that the US can go to war so easily. A $3,000,000,000,000 a year Iraq war would not be supported if every US citizen had to pay the $10,000 annual price tag to fund it. There would be another revolution and Bush would be laughed out of office. But the Federal Reserve controls the money supply and can turn on the printing press, or just had some '000s electronically. (Think Bank Bailout.)

This is why these statements of Thomas Jefferson were so prescient:

You can look to any Ron Paul quote to hear similar warnings.

This is why I started the thread on the Gold Standard.

[Aesa]

The present money system is disgusting that we have.

It's a way for powerful nations to enslave it's people and other nations into debt.

I'm heartened by the fact that there are others here who think the same.

War, ofcourse, is the other tool for profit and control.

If I were an enemy that wanted to destroy the USA, I would realize that the citizens of the USA will destroy themselves more quickly, with less risk than open warfare. The USA has embraced business practices that are more effective method of ruin than thermal nuclear war.

If Bin Laden truly is the terrorist leader he's supposed to be -- then he's getting exactly what he aimed for. He said he'd bankrupt the enemy.

This was all just a big lie though, and I don't believe for a second that it came from Bin Ladens mind or mouth.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Aesa