One of the Reasons for Sexual Immorality In Our Day

[Still_Small_Voice]

I like this scripture in First Timothy Chapter 4:

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

I heard this subject today and thought that it was interesting. In American culture today we see the commitment of marriage being pushed more and more into the background. How it's important to get a college education first before marriage, and to delay marriage because young adults (ages 18 to 21) are not mature enough, or the couple is not making enough money.

Many in the 1900s married at young ages of 18 to 21 and had successful marriages. Do you think it is not good as a general rule to delay marriage?

Edit: When I say 1900s I meant 1900 to 1970

Edited October 3, 2008 by Still_Small_Voice

[funkymonkey]

The 1900's and earlier held a different picture for the rights of women, and the social makeup of a familly alltogether. Kids were working fulltime in their teens, working in the fields, and taking on tasks and responsibilities as soon as they could walk. The moto of their life was to work. School was not a necessity, but rather to have a high school diploma was more of a luxury. There weren't school dances or football games...there was reading (maybe) and work work work.

The picture of an 18 year old back then (man), and the picture of an 18 year old now (boy) is very different.

Also in today's society, I really do think that it takes longer for many of us to "get our act together"...which leads to a delay in marriage. To be honest, I'm glad I didn't get married right away...I would've married a totally different person, one that would not have been good for me.

[rastler000]

I like this scripture in First Timothy Chapter 4:

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

I heard this subject today and thought that it was interesting. In American culture today we see the commitment of marriage being pushed more and more into the background. How it's important to get a college education first before marriage, and to delay marriage because young adults (ages 18 to 21) are not mature enough, or the couple is not making enough money.

Many in the 1900s married at young ages of 18 to 21 and had successful marriages. Do you think it is not good as a general rule to delay marriage?

In my family I teach the concept of waiting until getting married. But then again, as a secularist, I have a slightly different view of what is considered immoral, then do folks of this and other religions.... so from your standpoint I could why it might be bad. From my personal standpoint I also know that my experiences with my peers, and family, who had married when they under 21; that only about 10% are to their original mates now. Including my parents who after their divorce found long-term spouses much more suitable for them. I guess that is why I believe as I do.

[Still_Small_Voice]

When I say 1900s I am talking about 1900-1970.

[MarginOfError]

It is true that the median age of marriage has been rising. It's harder to determine if this is a good or a bad thing. As it has become more and more necessary to have a college degree to have real earning power, we've seen a growing attitude of extending childhood and adolescence. Our society puts more value on personal exploration and experimentation than ever before. The result, as I've seen it, is that a lot of 18-20 year olds really aren't very mature. You should walk into some of the beginning math classes I've taught at the University level and see how many of the first and second year students complain about being expected to do 3 hours of homework a week (which, by the way, isn't nearly enough for a math course if you really want to succeed).

I will agree, however, that putting off marriage in order to finish an education is not a particularly good policy. On the other hand, I strongly encourage individuals to put off getting married until they learn to be self confident, responsible, and happy as unmarried people. The reason for this: happy single people tend to turn into happy married people, and unhappy single people tend to turn into unhappy married people. People should take the time to mature, serve, and develop themselves, and to explore many potential mates (lots and lots of non-exclusive dating), and learn to develop lasting and meaningful relationships before getting married. If they can do that by 18, then great. If it takes them until they're 32, that's great too.

The bottom line is, marriage, family, maturity, and education are all very very important. But those things can develop and come to realization in very different ways. Instead of talking about when these things happen for people, we should be talking about how they happen for people.

[MarginOfError]

To be honest, I'm glad I didn't get married right away...I would've married a totally different person, one that would not have been good for me.

I cannot agree more with this statement in my own life.

[Wingnut]

To be honest, I'm glad I didn't get married right away...I would've married a totally different person, one that would not have been good for me.

I cannot agree with this statement more in my own life.

[Brenton]

I don't think there's any rush whatever to get married.

It doesn't mean that a person does not want to get married, but, really I see no rush.

I would also assume that in the 1900's college attendance per capita was a lot less than it is today.

[rockwoodchev]

This was talked about during some of the opening seminars held at the start of BYU semester.

I'm staring my oldest there as a Fresham. We were told, straight up that one of the purposes of BYU is that LDS young people and marry other LDS. This is meant so that these girls are married prior to 21 and men prior to 23.

However, they also admitted that since the entrance qualifications are so high for BYU, that the kids are not really thinking about marriage. They tend to focus on studies and working hard. From what I understand, the number of engagements and marriages at BYU is dropping and more and more students graduating, without a spouse.

I am so excited by this trend. I've tried to encourage my daughter, and I'm glad she (so far) aggrees, that she wants to be at least 27, 28 before she gets married. She has some very clear goals she has and they do not include a husband. YEAH!! I'm proud of her.

Edited October 3, 2008 by rockwoodchev

[WANDERER]

What you're saying is that delaying marriage can lead to the likelihood of sexual immorality?????

And how does this differ from sexual immorality within marriage or following the end of a marriage...???

Can you be sexually immoral towards a spouse???

Does marriage actually purify someone from sexual immorality? Or does it have a lot more to do with personal values...?

The same options are still there to do wrong...married or not.

The belief that single people are more subject to having bad values or are more exposed to the temptation of succumbing to bad values...is a somewhat sheltered perspective.

[rastler000]

Wanderer -

On the face of it what you say may seem to be the case. In reality by the time somebody is 24 there is an 88% chance they have not remained celibate. This may be a reason for folks to recommend getting married younger.

[WANDERER]

What are the stats on sexual morality post-celibacy...post-marriage...within the limits of marriage...does it in fact make people more moral? My point of view is that the problem is with values. Once apon a time that stat would not have held true for this age bracket. How have marriage values been undermined and how does this contribute to the problem?

I think marriage makes good sense for family units...economically, legally and emotionally. I don't have a problem with that.

[rastler000]

What are the stats on sexual morality post-celibacy...post-marriage...within the limits of marriage...does it in fact make people more moral? My point of view is that the problem is with values. Once apon a time that stat would not have held true for this age bracket. How have marriage values been undermined and how does this contribute to the problem?

I think marriage makes good sense for family units...economically, legally and emotionally. I don't have a problem with that.

I agree with the family unit. But I have had the experience of living the otherside of that "family unit" picture as a kid (divorced parents), and later as a single dad (drug addicted mom), and in both instances the fault wasn't mine. So you make do. In your religion folks like me (sad but true) don't really fit in.

As far as morals and values in general..... I wish your faith nothing but the best in instilling them. Seriously. But at the sametime all kids, and young adults are faced with "influences" and the stats bear out the reality of certain issues. Basically unless you want to live in a cut off commune.... that genie is out of the bottle and you have to deal with it

[Moksha]

I would also assume that in the 1900's college attendance per capita was a lot less than it is today.

The majority at that time did not even finish high school. They were out working. They also had shorter lifespans.

[WANDERER]

I'm not LDS.

Yep, those influences are not easy to navigate....within marriage and without.

[Nappaljarri]

I think as members of this church (for those here who are), we have the responsibility to recognise those statistics about immaturity etc and work hard on ourselves so that we are personally mature and ready in life to make those important decisions and be ready for them. I think there is actually a culture in thechurch (maybe no everywhere, but definately in Australia) where it is really "cool" to be single. I think that attitude and culture is degrading to the purpose of each individual in YSA.

[WANDERER]

It's not kewl to be single...I think people do put on a bit of a front about it though. Not looking needy or desperate tends to be part of the fascade. Coming home to your plants, pets or whatever is not all that great. No one is fooled. Some are kind about it...but not a whole lot.

There never actually is a *perfect* time in life to get married. I'd say don't put it off too long...not that anyone does...for the most part of it singledom is circumstantial...very few people write *live life alone for eighty years and never have a family of your own* down as their goal. I don't think it's entirely fair to lump them with the tag *immoral* or *irresponsible* or worse still...*not Christian enough* on top of the over-riding sadness of not having their own family.

That being said...be responsible...make sure you can provide for a family and finishing your schooling or initial job training is a basic requirement. This is no different to the past...it used to be that you made sure you could provide a house and income for your family before parents were that keen on you marrying their daughter. Social responsibility has always had advocates. I'd say members of the church would feel pretty much the same about paying taxes to support families whose sole income is welfare.

[Fiannan]

The picture of an 18 year old back then (man), and the picture of an 18 year old now (boy) is very different.

Not sure, if I picture an 18 year old man piloting a tak in Iraq I see someone living up to the expectations the US military sets for him -- and he will meet those challenges.

When I see an 18 year old male at a spring break party guzzling beer and watching a wet t-shirt contest on a Florida beach then I see the expectations set by the general society being fulfilled.

People will rise to the level we expect of them.

[Fiannan]

Forbidding to marry...

Gee, didn't the US government make laws forbidding people from marriage based on Biblical ideals back in the 1800s? Didn't that same government throw many LDS men in jail for living their beliefs?

[Brenton]

People will rise to the level we expect of them.

Often true. People will also rise to the level they expect of themselves.

[Still_Small_Voice]

There is also a false principle being taught in American culture that "marriage is just a piece of paper."

We as Latter-Day Saints believe marriage is so much more than that.

"Many people in the world consider marriage to be only a social custom, a legal agreement between a man and a woman to live together. But to Latter-day Saints, marriage is much more. Our exaltation depends on marriage. We believe that marriage is the most sacred relationship that can exist between a man and a woman. This sacred relationship affects our happiness now and in the eternities." Chapter 38: Eternal Marriage, Gospel Principles, page 241

Might I add one can enter the Kingdom of God without marriage, but they cannot be exalted if they choose to remain single.

It is also a growing trend in America to refuse marriage and just live together. Commitment is viewed as burdensome. Promises are just words. Sad indeed is the man who doesn't honor his word.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Still_Small_Voice

[MarginOfError]

Gee, didn't the US government make laws forbidding people from marriage based on Biblical ideals back in the 1800s? Didn't that same government throw many LDS men in jail for living their beliefs?

I think the question is which biblical ideals. Remember, the Bible can be interpreted to both condone and condemn polygamy. The Book of Mormon explicitly condemned it. And then the Doctrine and Covenants made room for its acceptance. So under your application of 'forbidding to marry,' God has been just as guilty as government.

[hordak]

I like this scripture in First Timothy Chapter 4:

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

I heard this subject today and thought that it was interesting. In American culture today we see the commitment of marriage being pushed more and more into the background. How it's important to get a college education first before marriage, and to delay marriage because young adults (ages 18 to 21) are not mature enough, or the couple is not making enough money.

Many in the 1900s married at young ages of 18 to 21 and had successful marriages. Do you think it is not good as a general rule to delay marriage?

Edit: When I say 1900s I meant 1900 to 1970

Education requirements keep rising so it's much more important today. Back in the 70s where i grew up(I wasn't born yet but same location) a kid out of high school could go get a Job at GM making the equivalent to $18-25 an hour. I've seen a Pharmacist go from a B.S degree to a Doctorate.Talking with my daughter Physical therapist i learned that PT and OP are going from masters degrees to doctorates as well.Friends i know from high school are working sales in department stores with B.A. degrees.

Education is more important today.

[Guest TheLutheran]

Education requirements keep rising so it's much more important today. . . .I've seen a Pharmacist go from a B.S degree to a Doctorate.Talking with my daughter Physical therapist i learned that PT and OP are going from masters degrees to doctorates as well. . . .

I call it "education inflation" and I'm not so sure the extra class-time is essential for success in these particular fields. Education is a big industry -- do I sound like I'm soon to have 3 daughters in college??? We think it is vital that our daughters and their future husbands are prepared and capable of supporting themselves prior to marriage. So far each has selected a field that requires at least a bachelors degree. I guess that means no weddings bells until they are 22 or 23 at the earliest. I'm good with that.

[hordak]

I call it "education inflation" and I'm not so sure the extra class-time is essential for success in these particular fields. Education is a big industry

I think you hit the nail on the head right there.By the time my kids go to collage I'm afraid a B.A or B.S will be the equivalent to having high school diploma now.

It's awesome if they find a B.A that's worth something but it seems like now you can do 8 years to get the professional job or 2 years to be that professionals aid.I haven't seen alot of in between.Even the aid stuff is going up in price.We have a school here that offers 18 month certificates in massage therapy or CNA for $10,000-$14,000.