Is one better off being LDS but not believing 100% in line with the teachings of the church...

[MarginOfError]

Dove, given that last post are you sure you chose the proper nickname? Let me go see if I can find an olive branch to replace the one that you apparently used as kindling for your fire.

[rameumptom]

It all depends on the issues you struggle with. Are they core doctrines, or just policies/practices?

The key issues are:

1. Do you believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost?

2. Do you believe Jesus is Savior and Redeemer of mankind?

3. Do you believe the fullness of the gospel has been restored through Joseph Smith?

4. Do you believe in living prophets and apostles to guide us via modern revelation?

5. Do you believe in and are willing to keep the commandments of God?

[Hemidakota]

eeuuww!!

Okay, ready to get off your soap box now?!

So, since you seem to have all the answers, I'm curious as to why we all don't worship you instead of God?! After all, it seems you have deemed that anyone who has an iota of a differing opinion from the brethren of the church ought to be spewed from out of His mouth~ or is it your mouth?!

I'm so grateful that it is to Him that I answer, and not people that hold such harsh, critical opinions as you do.

While I believe in respecting the priesthood authority, and in respecting inspiration, from sad experience I know all too well that the priesthood is held by all too fallible, human, and at times selfish, men.

D&C 121~

34 Behold, there are many acalled, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?

35 Because their ahearts are set so much upon the things of this bworld, and caspire to the dhonors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—

36 That the arights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be bcontrolled nor handled only upon the cprinciples of righteousness.

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to acover our bsins, or to gratify our cpride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or ddominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens ewithdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to akick against the pricks, to bpersecute the saints, and to cfight against God.

39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the anature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little bauthority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise cunrighteous dominion.

40 Hence many are called, but afew are chosen.

41 No apower or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the bpriesthood, only by cpersuasion, by dlong-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

42 By akindness, and pure bknowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the csoul without dhypocrisy, and without eguile—

I quote this because your messages are so without love or compassion, and seem to come from the vantage point that you keep this concept perfectly while the rest of us do not....

Also, I have witnessed plenty of times men in authority do just what these prior scriptures testify to. It is through hard experience that I have realized that truly it is "amen to their priesthood authority" when they do these things.

Dove

Really! I didn't know I was a perfect human being. Thanks but that is not the case since I am currently clicking on this keyboard and fallible as the next man or woman here. Also, I would not be surprise if you were living in the Savior time you may have a few abrasive comments for Him also. Do you need more tree logs to throw into your 'roasting fire'?

[Dove]

Sorry, those posts hit the wrong nerve!! There are many issues I struggle with in the church, and it is truly the Spirit that keeps me here, else I would have left long ago.

So....I believe it is really easy to dismiss people's concerns and strugglings with threatenings of hellfire and damnation. But you're right, I don't need to respond in kind with my own harshness. Thanks

Dove

[MarginOfError]

Well, while the fire is blazing, and since hemi is offering some good hard wood, should we roast some marshmallows?

[Dove]

Really! I didn't know I was a perfect human being. Thanks but that is not the case since I am currently clicking on this keyboard and fallible as the next man or woman here. Also, I would not be surprise if you were living in the Savior time you may have a few abrasive comments for Him also. Do you need more tree logs to throw into your 'roasting fire'?

I'm just wondering who is roasting who with your prior comments?

Comparing yourself to the Saviour, ehh?! Sorry, I have yet to see the similarities!!

Interestingly enough, even when I have struggled with God, He has never retaliated with harshness back towards me!

[Misshalfway]

Why don't we all just breath.....in and out........

[MarginOfError]

(okay, I've breathed out...when do I get to breathe in again?)

[Guest ceeboo]

It all depends on the issues you struggle with. Are they core doctrines, or just policies/practices?

The key issues are:

1. Do you believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost?

2. Do you believe Jesus is Savior and Redeemer of mankind?

3. Do you believe the fullness of the gospel has been restored through Joseph Smith?

4. Do you believe in living prophets and apostles to guide us via modern revelation?

5. Do you believe in and are willing to keep the commandments of God?

Howdie Ram,:)

I can easily go for 1, 2, and 5

Am I on my way ??:):)

Peace,

Carl

[Misshalfway]

(okay, I've breathed out...when do I get to breathe in again?)

No. Now you have to contort your body into a pretzel and say AHHHOOOOMMMM!

[Hemidakota]

Look Dove there is allot of issues that we will struggle with in this life. Even our mortal genetics, culture surroundings, parental teaching, may make us weak and easy prey to those minions across the veil. At times, it is better to be blunt than to employ a positive symptomatic type approach with a member.

Our goal as devoted members is to always follow the council of the Godhead, the Spirit when given, and those leaders of the Church. When we fail, it is not because of others to blame but ourselves. Yet, as brothers and sisters, we are here to support each other, which I understand your swift reaction.

[Hemidakota]

I'm just wondering who is roasting who with your prior comments?

Comparing yourself to the Saviour, ehh?! Sorry, I have yet to see the similarities!!

Interestingly enough, even when I have struggled with God, He has never retaliated with harshness back towards me!

Perhaps, you never been reprimanded by the Savior.

MoE, I rather cook 'hot dogs' when we roast.

[MarginOfError]

It all depends on the issues you struggle with. Are they core doctrines, or just policies/practices?

The key issues are:

1. Do you believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost?

2. Do you believe Jesus is Savior and Redeemer of mankind?

3. Do you believe the fullness of the gospel has been restored through Joseph Smith?

4. Do you believe in living prophets and apostles to guide us via modern revelation?

5. Do you believe in and are willing to keep the commandments of God?

Howdie Ram,:)

I can easily go for 1, 2, and 5

Am I on my way ??:):)

Peace,

Carl

I think you're probably closer than me, Carl...and I'm LDS!

[Dove]

Look Dove there is allot of issues that we will struggle with in this life. Even our mortal genetics, culture surroundings, parental teaching, may make us weak and easy prey to those minions across the veil. At times, it is better to be blunt than to employ a positive symptomatic type approach with a member.

Our goal as devoted members is to always follow the council of the Godhead, the Spirit when given, and those leaders of the Church. When we fail, it is not because of others to blame but ourselves. Yet, as brothers and sisters, we are here to support each other, which I understand your swift reaction.

Thanks, Hemidakota....

I don't believe in living my religion out of fear...neither do I believe in approaching others out of this same fear. This kind of bluntness, to me, comes off in the ways I have already explained.

I understand that as a devoted member you (and most often times, me) want to follow the Godhead, the Spirit, and the leaders of the church.

Quite frankly, Hemidakota, I have a lot of issues with the people of the church. Usually I do appreciate what the leaders of the church have to say. But there are many things that I question, deeply.

I am a member by the Spirit's direction, with much sorrow surrounding my decision to follow that direction. Your sayings produced a knee jerk reaction in me because I was one of thosse you were referring to.

Peace~

Dove

[Guest ceeboo]

I think you're probably closer than me, Carl...and I'm LDS!

:lol::lol::lol:

Now that was funny

Thanks for that mt friend

[HiJolly]

RachelleD,

I think you would find some friction with the non-thinking and non-Christlike members (of whom there are more than a few), (see Dove's comments) but personally I think it would still be WELL WORTH IT.

And as someone else said, I'd spend years after joining studying WHY the Church has take the stances it has. I'm NOT IMPLYING that the Church is 'right' in its views. Could be. Might not be. Very few LDS are willing to consider that the Church could possibly be wrong on something, and yes, that can be a bit tough to endure. But to receive the ordinances of the Gospel is priceless and worth many a sacrifice, IMO.

Best of luck to you, and remember that regardless, Heavenly Father loves you greatly and to a degree beyond our understanding.

HiJolly

[MrsHart]

I am LDS and while there are some things that I disagree with, for the most part I am very happy that there is a community and support that I can turn to. Also, I don't feel that I should leave the religion just because there are a few things that I may disagree with. It's kind of like how even though we may not agree with our parents all the time, or even understand why they do what they do some of the times, it doesn't mean that we would actually turn our backs on them, you know? That's how I feel about the church; it has been there for me all my life, and has done so much for me that I see it as my family. Also, the things that I disagree with don't really have to do with just Mormonism, but with Christianity as a whole, so even if I left the LDS church and joined another Christian sect, the disagreements would still be there.

As for your questions, I think that it is up to each person to decide. I think it depends on your personality type. One decision might suit a person better than the other.

I would say that if I were the Lord, I would not want someone to follow me if doing so makes them miserable.

Edited October 24, 2008 by MrsHart

[georgia2]

Hey Guys, I agree with all you are saying. I wasn't the one asking the question!

I've been a member almost 30 years. I sure know a heck of a lot more now that I did ten years ago.

In my response I was referring to people who have not yet gotten to the point, or learned about a certain doctrine or truth. For sure it is line upon line. We are held responsible for WHAT WE KNOW. When we become members we are like babies spiritually. Do babies know how to ride a bike? Do they know how to bake a cake? Do they understand how a radio works? How about where babies come from?

And so it is with our spiritual maturity. WE can mature slower, or faster by how much we apply ourselves to the truths we already know. If we read our scriptures and pray every day we are going to have such a greater depth to our understanding than if we don't. This in my opinion is why we as members don't always agree on things. Each of us is also entitled to received personal inspiration or revelation. As we mature spiritually and live the commandements more fully we are more open and receptive to be revealed spiritual truths that we could not have understood before.

I am AMAZED at how much the Spirit guides and inspires us when we just do the little things! Like reading our scriptures and praying every day. Heavenly Father is more than AWSOME!

[Dove]

...or not LDS at all?

Sorry if this is a vague question, but I it's the best way I could think of to word it.

Is it better to be baptized in the church, but have a few viewpoints that are drastically out of line with the church, or not baptized at all and completely refuse the teachings of the church? Or does it make a difference to the Lord at all?

Anybody know of any scriptural answers to this?

Hello, RD,

I'm sorry, I got sidetracked from answering your question.

I would say that if you have a basic enough testimony to know that God lives and loves you, and that this is His church, for you to stick with it and keep working towards doing His will in your life as you understand it.

There is no way that we can understand everything. I believe obedience comes line upon line and precept upon precept. The more obedient we are, the more He will give us to exercise our obedience by, the more blessings we will receive.

I do believe that this comes down to our own personal revelation, in the end. It has been said many times that we have the right to pray about the counsel of our leaders to find out if what they are saying is true, by the Spirit. I feel this should be an ongoing exercise.

I also believe that Heavenly Father is pleased with every bit of our efforts to come unto Him. Pulling away from Him is pulling ourselves away from the happiness/love He offers~

[georgia2]

posted by Dove:

While I believe in respecting the priesthood authority, and in respecting inspiration, from sad experience I know all too well that the priesthood is held by all too fallible, human, and at times selfish, men.

Hear, HEAR! Yes indeed the men who hold the Priesthood are indeed susceptible to the same temptations and vulnerabilities as i am. Oh yes, they sometimes make mistakes, make the wrong decision, wrong judgement. But like all other things in this experience we call life, this too is for our good and growth! We have been told that we will HAVE TO ABLE TO RECEIVE OUR OWN REVELATION in the latter days or we will be deceived! What better lesson can we have than to go through an experience where we were involved in a negative way by a Bishop or Stake Pres and know they are wrong?

Time will tell. Heavenly Father knows when these things happen and he aches right along with us. And indeed those Priesthood holders will have to answer for those decisions that have caused such heart break.

On the larger scale however, we have been promised that Heavenly Father will never allow us to be misled on a large scale, such as an Apostle or Prophet. These guys still aren't perfect, but I suspect, getting pretty close!

[rameumptom]

(okay, I've breathed out...when do I get to breathe in again?)

I would suggest that you should breathe in at least once per day, whether you need to or not.

[rameumptom]

Howdie Ram,:)

I can easily go for 1, 2, and 5

Am I on my way ??:):)

Peace,

Carl

3 out of 5 ain't bad. I still hold out hope for you, my friend.

[Elgama]

I think it depends I am not lukewarm in that I know the Church is true, comes from God, I believe Thomas S Monson is the prophet through God speaks and I have no issues with the Book of Mormon

But every so often my testimony of an issue is simply it must be right because church says so rather than I have a strong testimony of it myself or I find that individual church members and their assertions about things make me uncomfortable.

BUT - since President Monson has taken over the Ensign and Conferences have been saying some things the way I have said them for years and others at church have disagreed so I guess I wasn't wrong lol

-Charley

[prisonchaplain]

I think a lot of people misunderstood my question, which is not surprising because it was very vague. I'm not asking about the basics of LDS history, i'm asking about issues more akin to political and moral viewpoints. For example, gay marriage and abortion. These are two things that the church has made very cut and dry statements on.

I've had a lot of people tell me that someone either follows the prophet 100% or they don't, and that there is no in between. So does that mean that if I disagree with the church's stance on issues like that above, I might as well not have joined at all?

I obviously do not have the answer, but I would find it disconcerting if the Church demanded compliance in voting. I doubt any bishop here has asked a member if they voted a certain way prior to issuing a Temple Recommend, for example. Likewise, prior to baptism, asking whether the candidate (an adult convert) approved such and such a political referendum.

[Old Tex]

From my outside point of view, if one disagrees with an official doctrine of the church (i.e. believes the church is wrong), then how can s/he sustain the church as the one true church, restored in these Latter Days? Is this not the charge against Protestantism--that it is chaotic, allowing for so much diverse opinion about the things of God, when God wants us unified on them?

Maybe the "small stuff" can be a matter of opinion, even if the church teaches it officially? But, if so, who defines what's small and what really matters? This is an excellent question...but I'm guessing the answer will be rather elusive.

PC, I'm trying to remember where a LDS member is asked if they "sustain the church as the one true church". My expierence has been to be asked if I can sustain a member in a new or existing calling.

I can recall only once when I could not, and I raised my hand in opposition when asked. If a LDS member cannot sustain (and that means to support an individual in their calling) then they should either raise their hand in opposition, or short of that, at least not raise it in favor of sustaining the individual if they feel that they cannot do so. One should be honest with oneself.