Noisy Sacrament Meetings

[inactivetx]

Hi! Haven't been around here lately but wanted to share my experience.

I am (was) inactive LDS and after six years away, went to a Sacrament meeting this past Sunday and it was sort of like I remember it. I sat in the overflow room and I could barely hear or rather, concentrate on the speakers becuase the kids were going wild! About 80% of the congregation was young adults with elementary aged kids or younger (much younger) kids and they had free rein on the place - running around, making noise and parents shuttling kids in and out of the room. (also noticed 2 adults literally asleep!)

I usually attend an Episcopal Church for the early morning service where our 2 year old son is the ONLY child in attendance (about 40 people total) and even then, he spends most of the service in the nursery! So attending the LDS meeting was quite a change. I left my son and husband at home since the 2pm meeting time is right smack in the middle of my son's naptime and I have been a parent long enough to know that naps are sacred!

I joined the Church in a college town and while I didn't attend a singles ward, I didn't notice so many babies and children disrupting things. Maybe my memory is shot, but just wanted to know if this is the norm for everyone else.

I'll try and be more active on this board - been spending lots of time elsewhere (CF, FAIR, etc) sorry

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by inactivetx@Oct 21 2004, 04:35 PM

Hi! Haven't been around here lately but wanted to share my experience.

I am (was) inactive LDS and after six years away, went to a Sacrament meeting this past Sunday and it was sort of like I remember it. I sat in the overflow room and I could barely hear or rather, concentrate on the speakers becuase the kids were going wild! About 80% of the congregation was young adults with elementary aged kids or younger (much younger) kids and they had free rein on the place - running around, making noise and parents shuttling kids in and out of the room. (also noticed 2 adults literally asleep!)

I usually attend an Episcopal Church for the early morning service where our 2 year old son is the ONLY child in attendance (about 40 people total) and even then, he spends most of the service in the nursery! So attending the LDS meeting was quite a change. I left my son and husband at home since the 2pm meeting time is right smack in the middle of my son's naptime and I have been a parent long enough to know that naps are sacred!

I joined the Church in a college town and while I didn't attend a singles ward, I didn't notice so many babies and children disrupting things. Maybe my memory is shot, but just wanted to know if this is the norm for everyone else.

I'll try and be more active on this board - been spending lots of time elsewhere (CF, FAIR, etc) sorry

Hi Ya!

Being the father of 6 kids..all grown now...I remember vividly those kind of meetings!

I can honestly say...that my wife and I did our level best to keep the kid's mouths shut...and if they couldnt...we went to the rest room which is where they KNEW they didnt want be. We never took em out and just let them walk around the halls...that would be like heaven to them.

Reverence in Sacrament meeting is something that has been talked about...preached about from the Prophets pulpit to the Bishop's pulpit. As a people we MUST do much, much better.

Honestly...I do not understand why parents do not take crying babies out...or toddlers that are banging around etc. They need to be taught at home that this behavior is unacceptable. period....and if they do it...there will be consistant discipline fit for the crime....and it wont be fun!

I have seen parents "bear hug" their kids...while they are screaming their heads off!! Why on earth would they do that during a Sacrament service....or ANY public service for that matter?! I know not why!

Nope...as parents, teachers and Bishops (to assist parents who seem to not be able to do it themselves) we need to take some strong steps in correcting this behavior.

It's direspectful to the Lord and the rest of the Saints who have probably busted their chops to get to Church in order to have some semblance of a spiritual experience or to leave with some nugget of wisdom. I agree...perty hard when you have out of control kids all around ya!!!

Ok....stepping down off my soapbox....

....oh and by the way...in my opinion...unfortunatley..it probably is the norm. Hard to say...but thats my guess. The Church is still true though....even with the screaming kids!

.....oh..one more thought....with having said all the above....in my mind it does NOT include a fussy infant...or a little crying here and there. Not at all. My issue is with the toddlers and older kids who are wreaking havoc. .....But, if the baby crys to long and to loud....head out the door!

Ok...now Iam done!

randy

[Guest Glorias_Steinem]

Originally posted by Randy Johnson+Oct 21 2004, 04:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Randy Johnson @ Oct 21 2004, 04:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--inactivetx@Oct 21 2004, 04:35 PM

Hi!  Haven't been around here lately but wanted to share my experience.

I am (was) inactive LDS and after six years away, went to a Sacrament meeting this past Sunday and it was sort of like I remember it.  I sat in the overflow room and I could barely hear or rather, concentrate on the speakers becuase the kids were going wild!  About 80% of the congregation was young adults with elementary aged kids or younger (much younger) kids and they had free rein on the place - running around, making noise and parents shuttling kids in and out of the room.  (also noticed 2 adults literally asleep!)

I usually attend an Episcopal Church for the early morning service where our 2 year old son is the ONLY child in attendance (about 40 people total) and even then, he spends most of the service in the nursery! So attending the LDS meeting was quite a change. I left my son and husband at home since the 2pm meeting time is right smack in the middle of my son's naptime and I have been a parent long enough to know that naps are sacred!

  I joined the Church in a college town and while I didn't attend a singles ward, I didn't notice so many babies and children disrupting things. Maybe my memory is shot, but  just wanted to know if this is the norm for everyone else.

I'll try and be more active on this board - been spending lots of time elsewhere (CF, FAIR, etc) sorry 

Hi Ya!

Being the father of 6 kids..all grown now...I remember vividly those kind of meetings!

I can honestly say...that my wife and I did our level best to keep the kid's mouths shut...and if they couldnt...we went to the rest room which is where they KNEW they didnt want be. We never took em out and just let them walk around the halls...that would be like heaven to them.

Reverence in Sacrament meeting is something that has been talked about...preached about from the Prophets pulpit to the Bishop's pulpit. As a people we MUST do much, much better.

Honestly...I do not understand why parents do not take crying babies out...or toddlers that are banging around etc. They need to be taught at home that this behavior is unacceptable. period....and if they do it...there will be consistant discipline fit for the crime....and it wont be fun!

I have seen parents "bear hug" their kids...while they are screaming their heads off!! Why on earth would they do that during a Sacrament service....or ANY public service for that matter?! I know not why!

Nope...as parents, teachers and Bishops (to assist parents who seem to not be able to do it themselves) we need to take some strong steps in correcting this behavior.

It's direspectful to the Lord and the rest of the Saints who have probably busted their chops to get to Church in order to have some semblance of a spiritual experience or to leave with some nugget of wisdom. I agree...perty hard when you have out of control kids all around ya!!!

Ok....stepping down off my soapbox....

....oh and by the way...in my opinion...unfortunatley..it probably is the norm. Hard to say...but thats my guess. The Church is still true though....even with the screaming kids!

.....oh..one more thought....with having said all the above....in my mind it does NOT include a fussy infant...or a little crying here and there. Not at all. My issue is with the toddlers and older kids who are wreaking havoc. .....But, if the baby crys to long and to loud....head out the door!

Ok...now Iam done!

randy

I'm new here, randy. I will just comment that people who respect the rights of others will do better than they are now doing, in the way of disciplining both themselves and their unruly children.

And, you say the problem is widespread? Hmm! There must be a good thing to the saying "the truth will make [one] free": even if people ignore it and continue doing their own thing!???

I just wonder how "unruly" those young parents let their children be at home before "lowering the boom on them". (And, if they are disciplined at home, why not at church?)

Please no "god-in-embryo" kind of response: that is such a "cop-out"!!

[Fatboy]

Originally posted by Glorias_Steinem+Oct 21 2004, 05:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Glorias_Steinem @ Oct 21 2004, 05:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Randy Johnson@Oct 21 2004, 04:58 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--inactivetx@Oct 21 2004, 04:35 PM

Hi!  Haven't been around here lately but wanted to share my experience.

I am (was) inactive LDS and after six years away, went to a Sacrament meeting this past Sunday and it was sort of like I remember it.  I sat in the overflow room and I could barely hear or rather, concentrate on the speakers becuase the kids were going wild!  About 80% of the congregation was young adults with elementary aged kids or younger (much younger) kids and they had free rein on the place - running around, making noise and parents shuttling kids in and out of the room.  (also noticed 2 adults literally asleep!)

I usually attend an Episcopal Church for the early morning service where our 2 year old son is the ONLY child in attendance (about 40 people total) and even then, he spends most of the service in the nursery! So attending the LDS meeting was quite a change. I left my son and husband at home since the 2pm meeting time is right smack in the middle of my son's naptime and I have been a parent long enough to know that naps are sacred!

  I joined the Church in a college town and while I didn't attend a singles ward, I didn't notice so many babies and children disrupting things. Maybe my memory is shot, but  just wanted to know if this is the norm for everyone else.

I'll try and be more active on this board - been spending lots of time elsewhere (CF, FAIR, etc) sorry 

Hi Ya!

Being the father of 6 kids..all grown now...I remember vividly those kind of meetings!

I can honestly say...that my wife and I did our level best to keep the kid's mouths shut...and if they couldnt...we went to the rest room which is where they KNEW they didnt want be. We never took em out and just let them walk around the halls...that would be like heaven to them.

Reverence in Sacrament meeting is something that has been talked about...preached about from the Prophets pulpit to the Bishop's pulpit. As a people we MUST do much, much better.

Honestly...I do not understand why parents do not take crying babies out...or toddlers that are banging around etc. They need to be taught at home that this behavior is unacceptable. period....and if they do it...there will be consistant discipline fit for the crime....and it wont be fun!

I have seen parents "bear hug" their kids...while they are screaming their heads off!! Why on earth would they do that during a Sacrament service....or ANY public service for that matter?! I know not why!

Nope...as parents, teachers and Bishops (to assist parents who seem to not be able to do it themselves) we need to take some strong steps in correcting this behavior.

It's direspectful to the Lord and the rest of the Saints who have probably busted their chops to get to Church in order to have some semblance of a spiritual experience or to leave with some nugget of wisdom. I agree...perty hard when you have out of control kids all around ya!!!

Ok....stepping down off my soapbox....

....oh and by the way...in my opinion...unfortunatley..it probably is the norm. Hard to say...but thats my guess. The Church is still true though....even with the screaming kids!

.....oh..one more thought....with having said all the above....in my mind it does NOT include a fussy infant...or a little crying here and there. Not at all. My issue is with the toddlers and older kids who are wreaking havoc. .....But, if the baby crys to long and to loud....head out the door!

Ok...now Iam done!

randy

I'm new here, randy. I will just comment that people who respect the rights of others will do better than they are now doing, in the way of disciplining both themselves and their unruly children.

And, you say the problem is widespread? Hmm! There must be a good thing to the saying "the truth will make [one] free": even if people ignore it and continue doing their own thing!???

I just wonder how "unruly" those young parents let their children be at home before "lowering the boom on them". (And, if they are disciplined at home, why not at church?)

Please no "god-in-embryo" kind of response: that is such a "cop-out"!!

Parenting is one of the greatest stresses and physcial work one can do. It has to be a joint partnership to even get them out of the house. Not one of us can know what it took for that person to get children fed, bathed, dressed, and stuffed in usually a car to small. To get them all in the chapel and settled down with them crawling over the seats. It is a miracle. Blessed are the children to come unto me Christ said. I have been in my ward long enough to see many kids and then the ward grow older and have very few to back to many and know we have very few. Kids grow up and leave, and the come back to have kids. A cycle. When I hear a talk given with the spirit, I honestly do not hear the kids. My wife says I am an expert at selective hearing. If the spirit isn't there with children being there, then where would the spirit be?

[apple]

When I joined this church I noticed the large amounts of children in the ward (compared to my old church with nothing but elderly people). And I decided I would rather be in a church I belived was true and focused on family than anywere else.

I am not being judgmental, because I acually "accidentally" became inactive since having my kids. The testimony is still there but I am so tired and it is hard to deal with babies and toddlers at church, but these are just exuses for my inacivity. Do you think maybe the noise level could be your exuse for inaciviy?

I know how bad it feals to not be where you know you should and how easy it is to look for a reason outside of yourself.

I should add though that although there is alot of kids in our ward it is not that noisy so maybe I just don't understand how bad it is for you.

[Winnie G]

I was raised in the Episcopal Church as well, My mother upon visiting my church when I invited her remarked about the noise as well.

Episcopalian like it quite, we as children were driven off to the basement for Sunday school to only later finding our parents smoking and drinking coffee in the parish hall.

Whan I asked about the noise level a member said that’s what the bishops volume control is for as for the speaker he or she should just speak UP.

Parents also know were the hall ways is and fathers should spend that time with their children.

I passed a group of fathers in the hall once as I took my load four kids for a potty brake during sacrament meeting, one said to the group “If I had my way I be in there and she would be out here” I walked up to the donkey behind and said “Oh so you weren’t there at the time of conception”? he looked gulty as charge so did the other fathers.

I was the single mother in the ward with attitude. They all know I would tell other sister, not who that were but the remarks.

Need less to say my best friends husband told me a few weeks later that the priesthood received a blast and told them their place was in the hallway! Giving there over burden mothers a chance to fill her spiritual tank so to speak.

yup that’s me.

Sacrament meetings can be noisy. But I can tell you one thing as a Episcopalian I never learned to be reverent or that some were along the line I learn as a adult what being Episcopalian meant since I was shuffled out of the “adult service” never to return and sent me looking for a church and faith

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by inactivetx@Oct 21 2004, 04:35 PM

I am (was) inactive LDS and after six years away, went to a Sacrament meeting this past Sunday and it was sort of like I remember it.  I sat in the overflow room and I could barely hear or rather, concentrate on the speakers becuase the kids were going wild! 

I left my son and husband at home since the 2pm meeting time is right smack in the middle of my son's naptime and I have been a parent long enough to know that naps are sacred!

I see the problem... Why on earth did you sit in the overflow room if you were not with a screaming child yourself?

When you go back, get there early and sit in the front of the chapel.

[Faerie]

yup...our ward: noisy kids in the back...we learned this early on when my husband taking the discussions...back then we were meeting in an elementary school and sacrament was held in the gym...talk about your noise levels!!

my old ward was quiet...the stake president came down HARD on the bishops about reverence in the chapel...there were quite a few talks about being quiet and respectful, about taking your screaming kid out into the hallways...now when you go, you can hardly tell that there are so many kids!!

my husband and i joke that we should start slipping "anon" notes to our bishop asking that he takes the same attitude towards ourw ard...although it's nowhere near as bad as some other wards...

[Guest curvette]

I think it's fallout from the "good old days" when the average LDS family had eight (or so)children. It's almost impossible (unless the parents passed on very mild genes) to keep a large group of children quiet for over an hour and a half. So, this generation of parents grew up observing parents letting their children make noise in Sacrament meeting, and they figured that's the way it's done. Even with smaller families, the noise level hasn't decreased even though technically it should because it's easier for two parents to keep three children quiet than eight. For maximum reverentail outcome, I recommend sitting somewhere in the front two rows.

[Winnie G]

One ward I was in for a short time we had a bishop who’s monster children sons would come to church in play cloths and muddy gum boots and proceed to run yellow Tonka trucks up and down the walls. Yes in Sacrament meetings!

I went in to my class room right off the chapel once and found this bishop shaking the crap out of his sons saying “If I ever see you doing that again……..” you get the jest. They had colorful mouths as well.

He saw me and I said “take your time I’m in no hurry”

These boys were wild, they had free-range chickens that after one pecked one of the boys, and he started kicking them around the yard killing 80 % of their chickens. I know this because they asked me to help them build a chicken coop after that. (Farm girl)

I pray to this day that those boys were taken to a shrink

Yup sit in the front.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Oct 22 2004, 08:43 AM

One ward I was in for a short time we had a bishop who’s monster children sons would come to church in play cloths and muddy gum boots and proceed to run yellow Tonka trucks up and down the walls. Yes in Sacrament meetings!

I went in to my class room right off the chapel once and found this bishop shaking the crap out of his sons saying “If I ever see you doing that again……..” you get the jest. They had colorful mouths as well.

He saw me and I said “take your time I’m in no hurry”

These boys were wild, they had free-range chickens that after one pecked one of the boys, and he started kicking them around the yard killing 80 % of their chickens. I know this because they asked me to help them build a chicken coop after that. (Farm girl)

I pray to this day that those boys were taken to a shrink

Yup sit in the front.

Winnie's example is extreme, but may be the result of the Bishop's wife being so worn out dealing with ALL the responsibility of parenting while the Bishop attends his endless meetings. Good Bishops deserve a medal. Their wives deserve a cruise ship.

[Kevin]

We're a family church. As such, families often attend church together. Yes, we should try to maintain a reverent atmosphere but, a little tolerance and increased attention may help us focus better on the purposes of sacrament meeting - taking the sacrament and learning the gospel.

If somebody doesn't take their crying child out we'd be better off to increase our focus on what the speaker is saying as opposed to getting upset.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Kevin@Oct 22 2004, 09:55 AM

...If somebody doesn't take their crying child out we'd be better off to increase our focus on what the speaker is saying as opposed to getting upset.

But Kevin, if you can't even hear the speaker because of the noise; how is focusing on what you can't hear going to help?

M.

[Marsha]

I remember when I first joined the Church a couple years ago. I was "shocked" to see all the kiddies running around, throwing cheerios at each other etc. Having grown children, I just kind forgot about those things. Noticing that most Sundays it was the same mothers that always got up and missed out on the meeting I decided to do something about it. The next Sunday when a child would seem out of control, I just quietly got up and took the child out of the room. This way the rest of their family enjoyed the service and I did as well, performing MY service. I didn't miss out on too many services doing this as most of the time the "offending" children would just come and sit with me. Worked for all of us.

Marsha

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Marsha@Oct 22 2004, 12:23 PM

I remember when I first joined the Church a couple years ago. I was "shocked" to see all the kiddies running around, throwing cheerios at each other etc. Having grown children, I just kind forgot about those things. Noticing that most Sundays it was the same mothers that always got up and missed out on the meeting I decided to do something about it. The next Sunday when a child would seem out of control, I just quietly got up and took the child out of the room. This way the rest of their family enjoyed the service and I did as well, performing MY service. I didn't miss out on too many services doing this as most of the time the "offending" children would just come and sit with me. Worked for all of us.

Marsha

That's nice. You created a win win situation that was probably much appreciated by the parents and the children!

[Ray]

Originally posted by Marsha@Oct 22 2004, 12:23 PM

I remember when I first joined the Church a couple years ago. I was "shocked" to see all the kiddies running around, throwing cheerios at each other etc. Having grown children, I just kind forgot about those things. Noticing that most Sundays it was the same mothers that always got up and missed out on the meeting I decided to do something about it. The next Sunday when a child would seem out of control, I just quietly got up and took the child out of the room. This way the rest of their family enjoyed the service and I did as well, performing MY service. I didn't miss out on too many services doing this as most of the time the "offending" children would just come and sit with me. Worked for all of us.

Marsha

I'm assuming that the parents knew who you were and that you were very gracious about it. :)

[Winnie G]

I did that with a family in our last ward, they were inactive because of their children’s behavior, so my husband their VT told them the children would just have to sit with us.

Yah it worked, one Sunday I walked over and took the 7-year-old boy and took him out of the chapel over my shoulder. He squirmed on my lap in the hall but he gave up the ghost soon enough and when he did I asked him if he was ready to join the adults, he was and he took my hand and walk back in I had to do this with all their children not that extreme but it worked. The only down size is after 6 months of this I told their mother it was time to take over she did begrudgingly and she was no longer friendly towards me. Yah we all met a few of those.

BTW that bishop was fare from hard done by; his wife on the other hand wished she found a better breeder. I use that term because of his actions.

He made primary children do push-ups if he heard load voices from a class room in the hall.

Oh yah he was not bishop for long.

[Marsha]

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 22 2004, 03:35 PM

Marsha

I'm assuming that the parents knew who you were and that you were very gracious about it.  :)

ummm, well, of course! Silly one

That's nice. You created a win win situation that was probably much appreciated by the parents and the children!

And by other members!

[inactivetx]

Seems a lot of people can relate LOL!

As for being inactive, this was my first Sacrament meeting in 6 years so, I am on my way back!

I understand that the LDS is a family Church and children need to be trained, yadda, yadda, yadda, but I still really don't understand why nursery isn't offered during Sacrament like it is for Sunday School and Preisthood/RS meetings. Getting the toddlers and pre-school kids together would be great!

Thanks for the advise on sitting in the front - I just wanted to be inconspicious on my first Sunday back. I don't know how I'll get my non-member husband to Chruch now, since he freaks if our son makes a noise in a resturant LOL! And trust me, 2 years olds are going to make noise!

[Faerie]

there's no nursery during sacrament because even the squirmiest toddlers benefit from the talks and the spirit of sacrament..not to mention you are asking people to purposefully stay out of sacrament to take care of a large group of children....

even if they're acting like hellions, a lot of children learn a lot in sacrament...

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Faerie@Oct 22 2004, 06:23 PM

there's no nursery during sacrament because even the squirmiest toddlers benefit from the talks and the spirit of sacrament..not to mention you are asking people to purposefully stay out of sacrament to take care of a large group of children....

even if they're acting like hellions, a lot of children learn a lot in sacrament...

I disagree with this. I think young ones benefit from the meeting only up until the sacrament is over. I think the talks are just too far over their heads at that age. It would be nice if everyone could be together until the sacrament, and then the young ones be dismissed to nursery and the younger primary classes for the remainder of the meeting.

[Faerie]

that requires taking adults away from sacrament...

and i've heard WAY too many things come out of small children's mouths to indicate that they are listening...

[john doe]

Originally posted by curvette+Oct 24 2004, 07:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Oct 24 2004, 07:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Faerie@Oct 22 2004, 06:23 PM

there's no nursery during sacrament because even the squirmiest toddlers benefit from the talks and the spirit of sacrament..not to mention you are asking people to purposefully stay out of sacrament to take care of a large group of children....

even if they're acting like hellions, a lot of children learn a lot in sacrament...

I disagree with this. I think young ones benefit from the meeting only up until the sacrament is over. I think the talks are just too far over their heads at that age. It would be nice if everyone could be together until the sacrament, and then the young ones be dismissed to nursery and the younger primary classes for the remainder of the meeting.

I volunteer to take the kids in this nursery you propose. Some Sundays, the most important things happen during the first half hour of sacrament meeting, the rest is just wasted time. At least the kids would help me stay awake on "dry council" Sunday. I'm still waiting for the church to change to a two-hour meeting block.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Faerie@Oct 24 2004, 07:06 PM

that requires taking adults away from sacrament...

and i've heard WAY too many things come out of small children's mouths to indicate that they are listening...

What better way to utilize the speaker system in the church? They could just pipe the sound into the nursery so the adults wouldn't miss anything.

[inactivetx]

I like the idea of dismissing the children to primary after the passing of the sacrament - or maybe after the youth speaker? In the Episcopal church (sorry, only other refeence point :)) the 'sacarament' part is at the end of the service and the children from nursery are returned at this point so the family can receive communion. As far as adult missing the service, in the EC, a paid babysitter is used. While I know that the LDS church isn't going to pay money to anybody, but a rotating system could be used where a member only does it once a month or so. No lessons, just free play time and piping in the talks sound like a great idea, too! I am only talking about toddlers-preschoolers: school age children should be able to sit through a 70 minute meeting.

As a follow-up, I attended again this past Sunday, I guess someone heard me :) The kids didn't seem quite as restless and the bishops cranked the microphone so I didn't have to strain to hear the speakers. I do miss the between speaker hymn though, they don't seem to do it at this ward. I need to get up and move around every once in a while. I guess with a toddler, I never get the chance to just sit for an hour and I am not used to it LOL!