Doping kids -- it's time to question the practice.

[Fiannan]

You know, since so many kids of all ages are being fed drugs nowadays I wonder what would happen if every school in the nation assigned students to read this article:

Health Blog : J&J Backed Child Psychiatry Institute to Support Risperdal Sales

and have to watch this documentary:

news + public affairs player: video

Follow the money might take on a greater significance than one might initially imagine. And if kids are haivng their health and mental safety put in peril could we as a society be doing as great a dis-service to our young as the British did to the Chinese when Queen Victoria forced drugs on the people of China?

Edited December 1, 2008 by Fiannan

[WANDERER]

The bandwagon is already full up on that one....but plenty more room there : )

However, in all things compassion...there are a good many children whose everyday life is somewhat severe in complications that are somewhat compromised by the political ramifications of the perspective that they are being abused medically.

[gabelpa]

Don't have the time to go through the links, but long story short, we have behavioural specialists in our ward here who can deal with extreme autism & worse. They say

There is no such thing as a learning difficulty.

Meaning, any child can be taught, but not all children can be taught in the cookie-cutter environment schools provide. Sorry if what I said is Off-topic.

[WANDERER]

Having provided a non-cookie-cutter environment, an extreme version of one for a severe situation...it is possible to do ...my opinion is that learning disabilities are real. Learning is always possible and this a true statement...this does not make it easy to provide in it's optimum form. I have no opinion on medication as it's not my area of expertise, but I feel for children and families. What to do when children self-harm or harm others to the point of life-threatening concerns me greatly. I don't think I'll ever have all the answers.

[Gwen]

i may not be a behavioral specialist (i have taught kids with varing kinds of learning disabilities) but i have to disagree with the statement "there is no such thing as a learning difficulty".

i do agree that there are a lot of kids that can not be taught in the cookie cutter school system. and i agree that the schools need to be modified to reach more kids. i believe there is no "dumb" child and nearly all children can achieve well above the dr's perceived limits of their potential. every child is capable of learning something.

that being said. there are learning difficulties. when you have a child whose brain process written language in mirror image they will have difficulties learning to read and write. even when you change your teaching style to adapt for that they will have difficulty. they live in this world they have to learn to deal with that issue. it can be done. it will also be difficult. there are many other learning disabilities/difficulties out there, i simply chose that one since i figured it would be the easiest to understand and explain here.

i agree that there are cohorting dr's and drug companies that make things much worse for our society. in the same breath there are kids that do need the medications, the issues they face are real. the problem as i see it isn't in the drugs or giving them to children in some cases. but rather in the diagnostic and supervision process of the kids on these medications. the dr's are not educated enough on what the medications are for, how to diagnose the kids or how to supervise the kids on them. the parents are even less educated about these things. the child suffers for the ignorance of the dr's and the caring parents attempts to find an answer for their children. when we as a society start diagnosing properly and supervising it properly then the drug companies will fall in line.

[TeancumsSword]

You know, since so many kids of all ages are being fed drugs nowadays I wonder what would happen if every school in the nation assigned students to read this article:

Health Blog : J&J Backed Child Psychiatry Institute to Support Risperdal Sales

and have to watch this documentary:

news + public affairs player: video

Follow the money might take on a greater significance than one might initially imagine. And if kids are haivng their health and mental safety put in peril could we as a society be doing as great a dis-service to our young as the British did to the Chinese when Queen Victoria forced drugs on the people of China?

Revelation 18 : 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

For those unaware the Greek for "sorceries" roughly translates to "pharmaceuticals" (ie drugs). So because of our trust in riches and reliance on drugs to solve all our problems, the voice of Jesus (Bridegroom), through the Spirit, is stifled and the message of the Bride (Restored Church of Christ) is incomprehensible to many.

[Gwen]

Revelation 18 : 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

For those unaware the Greek for "sorceries" roughly translates to "pharmaceuticals" (ie drugs). So because of our trust in riches and reliance on drugs to solve all our problems, the voice of Jesus (Bridegroom), through the Spirit, is stifled and the message of the Bride (Restored Church of Christ) is incomprehensible to many.

are you saying that those who are on medications for "mental illness" can't feel the spirit (ie voice of the lord) due to those medications?

[TeancumsSword]

are you saying that those who are on medications for "mental illness" can't feel the spirit (ie voice of the lord) due to those medications?

What do you define as mental illness?

[Gwen]

What do you define as mental illness?

not about how i define mental illness thus the " ". more about how the world defines a "mental illness" that may require medication. the ones i had in mind when i asked the question would be things like ADD, ADHD, depression, bipolar, obsessive compulsive disorder, etc.

[pam]

My own mother and a very close friend of mine were both on anti depressant drugs. Both claimed while being on these drugs they felt nothing. Had no emotion, couldn't cry, couldn't feel anything. Both claimed to not be able to feel the Spirit at any given time while on these medications. Until they went off of them were they able to feel the Spirit again.

[Gwen]

My own mother and a very close friend of mine were both on anti depressant drugs. Both claimed while being on these drugs they felt nothing. Had no emotion, couldn't cry, couldn't feel anything. Both claimed to not be able to feel the Spirit at any given time while on these medications. Until they went off of them were they able to feel the Spirit again.

my personal belief for this kind of thing is there are 2 categories of "mental illness" one is psychological as many seem to think they all are. the other is physical. you can not correct a physical problem with counseling and will power. nor can you correct an emotional problem with medication. there are also times when these issues are a combination of the two and need both to treat, or one has been suffering for so long with the physical that they never learned the healthy psychological part that most develop normally. i personally believe that those who are on the medication and things get "worse" (i see not being able to feel as worse) then it's not medication they need but psychological assistance.

i have suffered from postpartum depression and when something physical has a hold of you not only can it not be dealt with through will power but that until some kind of physical intervention (such as medication) takes place you can not feel the spirit or anything else you want to feel.

[pam]

my personal belief for this kind of thing is there are 2 categories of "mental illness" one is psychological as many seem to think they all are. the other is physical. you can not correct a physical problem with counseling and will power. nor can you correct an emotional problem with medication. there are also times when these issues are a combination of the two and need both to treat, or one has been suffering for so long with the physical that they never learned the healthy psychological part that most develop normally. i personally believe that those who are on the medication and things get "worse" (i see not being able to feel as worse) then it's not medication they need but psychological assistance.

i have suffered from postpartum depression and when something physical has a hold of you not only can it not be dealt with through will power but that until some kind of physical intervention (such as medication) takes place you can not feel the spirit or anything else you want to feel.

Gwen I'm in no way saying that medication is not good for some people. Just answering your question as to whether a medication could make someone not feel the Spirit.

When my son was much much younger and was diagnosed with Oppositional Defiance Disorder medication was a lifesaver. For him and for me. Until we could get through some counseling and he could mature enough to understand how to somewhat control his outbursts of temper. But to have a child begging you to help him when his anger was out of control is heartbreaking. He couldn't control it when it got that bad. So yes, I believe in medication in certain circumstances. I believe there is a time and a season for it.

[tefor]

My own mother and a very close friend of mine were both on anti depressant drugs. Both claimed while being on these drugs they felt nothing. Had no emotion, couldn't cry, couldn't feel anything. Both claimed to not be able to feel the Spirit at any given time while on these medications. Until they went off of them were they able to feel the Spirit again.

I went through the same thing for nearly ten years. I was misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder and put on Depakote, Effexor, and Lithium. My energy went away, I had the personality of a slug, and couldn't feel anything. Then about a year and a half ago I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome (which I had suspected all along, though I couldn't get anybody to believe me), was taken off all but the minimum dosage, and began to feel things again. The challenge, of course, is to properly manage my emotions, which I'm still learning how to do. I'm much more obervant now, I help out around the house a lot more, and I pay more attention to the kids. My mind is also a lot sharper since coming off of the meds. Becoming more aware of my "blind spots" is a painful process, but it's allowing me to improve. The difficulty now is to be more patient with myself.

There are cases where medication is warranted, but those are extreme cases where the patient simply cannot function without them. I never would have said this a couple of years ago when I was completely dependent upon my meds, but I believe that the best policy is to be upon the minimum dosage necessary to function.

A really good talk addressing the topic is Christ-Centered Healing from Depression and Low Self-Worth by Dr. Carrie Wrigley, an LDS therapist.

[pam]

Effexor and Lithium were what both my mom and my friend were on.

[chipmunkman84]

No matter what you do. There will always be stoners, crack heads. etc etc.

Many high schoolers smoke weed because they just want to "chill out". Because a teenager

nowadays has WAY more stress then all of you did back then.

[Gwen]

i don't think anything in this thead is about illegal drugs but pharmaceuticals; you know medication.

some kids in high school nowadays smoke weed to "chill out" because they were not tought how to deal with stress.

[Guest SisterofJared]

Most forms of behavior problem/mental illness are caused by nutrient problems. ADHD and autism are greatly effected by gluten allergy, and can be hugely reversed by simply omitting gluten from the diet. I have a customer here that has an autistic son.... sadest thing I ever heard was when she told me she knew, had read the reseach, and still kept him on a normal diet, because she thought a gluten free diet cost too much.

Actually even sadder is my daughter not changing the diet of her son who she things had ADHD and bipolar. Because my daughter could afford it. Unfortunately her counseler thinks she has ADHD, and that's the reason for not making the change.

So I think instead they're going to use drugs for my daughter, and maybe even drugs for her son, 12 years old.

I have a friend whose has several children who have been diagnosed with bi-polar. After much trial and error, they have found that nutrients work way better than medicines.

Food coloring, preservatives, processed garbage.... our children's health both mental and physical is being destroyed by what we eat, then we add toxins to our body to try and fix it.

The Word of Wisdom was written the Lord says, because of the evils that exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last day. Don't let yourself be fooled into thinking those conspiring men are the ones selling drugs on the corner. Those guys we know to watch out for. No, it's the ones processing food and removing the nutrients from it, the ones manufacturing so called cures and treatments for us... indeed, DO follow the money trail.

If we were to eat a Word of Wisdom diet, we would be much healthier. And forget ALL the processed garbage. Go to the grocery store and shop the produce section and go home! Your children would be healthier. And for problems, use nutrients... the problems will begin to disappear.

That said... I am stupid, because I don't always stick to my raw vegan diet. And I recognize a difference in my health within hours when I get off it.

Sister of Jared

[Gwen]

diet does indeed have an effect on those disorders but diet is not the cause or the cure... i do believe with some life coaching many can learn to deal with their issues without medication.... medication is a great tool to help till one learns or assist after all they can do.

[a-train]

No matter what you do. There will always be stoners, crack heads. etc etc.

Many high schoolers smoke weed because they just want to "chill out". Because a teenager

nowadays has WAY more stress then all of you did back then.

Legalize it.

-a-train

[pam]

I can see this going way off topic. Let's stay with the topic of the OP.

[a-train]

I think there is a truth to the notion that people are medicating their kids without any good reason. Now this cannot be turned into a sweeping generalization about the types of medications or the symptoms or what have you. While I respect and wish to preserve the rights of parents and children, I personally make drugs a last resort with my own family and thank God that it has not been necessary thus far and pray also that it won't be.

-a-train

[Kyra]

I hate prescription drugs, thought I do agree that they have their place in our lives and can be good. I had very bad post partum depression after having my second daughter and went on Zoloft for 5 months. I've realized recently that my depression is getting really bad again, so I'm planning on seeing the dr. this week to help get it under control. But as soon as it's under control I'm going to try to manage it with diet and herbs instead.

My sister has severe asthma. In July of 2007 she was life-flighted to Primary Children's hospital because her heart was beating over 200 bpm and it wouldn't slow down. After all this my mom started doing research on the effects of her asthma medications and realized that the so-called wonder drug Singulair is what has caused her permanent heart damage. She's 16 year old and in two weeks will have her second heart surgery this year. In the last year and a half they have started doing more with herbs and natural healing, and a couple months ago started using foot zoning and reflexology. My sister has gone from having to use her inhaler 3 or 4 times a day (at least) to once or twice a week.

In March I started the fertility drug clomid. The lowest dose is 50 mg, but it wasn't working so my dr. had me taking 150 mg. I finally quit taking it in August when I ended up in the ER because it was giving me chest pains.

I believe that when it comes to prescription drugs, too many people are using them because it's the easy way out. God has given us more than one way to keep our bodies healthy-herbs, reflexology, accupuncture, diet and nutrition are a few, and they really do work. I know that my daughter (probably both of them) has ADHD, but I will not drug her for it. I've seen kids turn into little zombies on Ritalin, it's almost like it changes who they are and I don't want to do that to Aryka.

They have their rightful place in our lives, but I believe that we are severely over-medicating ourselves and our children. They are doing as much or more harm to our bodies than they are doing good.

[Wingnut]

In March I started the fertility drug clomid. The lowest dose is 50 mg, but it wasn't working so my dr. had me taking 150 mg. I finally quit taking it in August when I ended up in the ER because it was giving me chest pains.

(Side note from the original intent of the thread: Clomid is a bit of a counter-productive irony. It's supposed to help you get pregnant by increasing/forcing ovulation. However, it dries up a woman's cervical mucus, which is what keeps sperm alive. It therefore creates a more hostile environment for sperm.)

I believe that when it comes to prescription drugs, too many people are using them because it's the easy way out. God has given us more than one way to keep our bodies healthy-herbs, reflexology, accupuncture, diet and nutrition are a few, and they really do work. I know that my daughter (probably both of them) has ADHD, but I will not drug her for it. I've seen kids turn into little zombies on Ritalin, it's almost like it changes who they are and I don't want to do that to Aryka.

Ritalin isn't the only ADD/ADHD drug out there. It's the most widely-known one, and usually the first one to jump to, but it's not the only one out there.

[Kyra]

(Side note from the original intent of the thread: Clomid is a bit of a counter-productive irony. It's supposed to help you get pregnant by increasing/forcing ovulation. However, it dries up a woman's cervical mucus, which is what keeps sperm alive. It therefore creates a more hostile environment for sperm.)

Thanks, I didn't know that. I got pregnant with my second daughter on clomid, but after reading that I don't understand how.

Ritalin isn't the only ADD/ADHD drug out there. It's the most widely-known one, and usually the first one to jump to, but it's not the only one out there

I know, I only meant it as an example. I just have to wonder how many people know that most kids who are diagnosed with ADHD are diagnosed incorrectly. A lot of these kids actually have some sort of food allergy, or even food dyes. Some kids with ADHD actually have sleep apnea. Some are just kids being kids! LOL

[Wingnut]

Thanks, I didn't know that. I got pregnant with my second daughter on clomid, but after reading that I don't understand how.

It works for a lot of people, but not for all.