Bible: Literal or not?

[BenRaines]

I believe that too.

Ben Raines

[pam]

I do as well. The parting of the Red Sea?

[Justice]

All of them describe actual events, and nearly always teach of greater events and greater truths.

I do believe many of them are misunderstood, however, possibly because of dramatizations in movies, but I believe the Bible is a histroy book as much as a book of teaching. It doesn't have to be one or the other, why can't it be both? Some of the greatest lessons I've learned have been from actual events in my life. The Bible is repleat with such events.

Pam brought up this one...

Genesis 14:

21 And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.

22 And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.

From this text we see it didn't happen in 5 or 10 minutes, or less, as depicted in movies: 10 Commandments, Prince of Egypt. It says the winds blew all night.

When we don't study and ponder the scriptures we don't learn the more important lessons being taught that DO show it was an actual event in order to teach us something greater. Here is some text from the creation:

Genesis 1:

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters (heaven or space), and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Similarities?

Now, seeing God works consistently, and if you believe God created the heaven and earth, how can you NOT believe He used the same methods to divide the waters for the children of Israel being led away from captivity? Don't you see how it is teaching of the creation? And, don't you see how this story and the very creation teach a man that he must be born again, or come out of captivity?

I fear it's a lack of understanding of the scriptures that leads many to say "this or that didn't really happen."

[hordak]

I wonder if the miraculous stories in the bible caused by men were based on a greater knowledge of these men?

Reading through the Bible (and all the books) it seems to me, God makes makes people and gives them very strict laws with very strict punishments.(See old testament) Then as man (as a whole) gains knowledge the rules/punishments are lessened and man is allowed more freedom to interpret the laws. Similar to how a parent might spank a 2 year old for playing with a lighter but only take it away and ground them if they do it as a teen.

example. Sabbath day observance

Old testament.

32 ¶ And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.

Strict rule about what you can't do. Strict punishment for break those rules.

New testament

23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.

24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Old rule is shown to be too rigid.

D&C

9 And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day;

10 For verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High;

11 Nevertheless thy avows shall be offered up in righteousness on all days and at all times;

12 But remember that on this, the Lord’s day, thou shalt offer thine oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord.

13 And on this day thou shalt do none other thing, only let thy food be prepared with singleness of heart that thy fasting may be perfect, or, in other words, that thy joy may be full.

Less focus on "the letter of the law" and more focus on what we should do.

If this is how God works with the laws perhaps this is who he works with the blessing/miracles.

Using my kid analogy from before perhaps the Prophets of old were "born as teens or adults in a world of children" and this allowed them to perform the miracles that might clash with science today.

[MarginOfError]

A lot of the stories in the Bible are both literal and figurative. This is a necessary condition when you're trying to teach spiritual concepts through historical events. For example, I recently listened to a talk by Wendy Nelson entitled "The Savior Heals Without A Scar." In the talk, she tells a true story about a trip she took with Sheri Dew to a conference in Palmyra. After the conference, and on their way into the airport, Sister Nelson tripped and face planted into the concrete. She proceeds to tell a detailed story about her acute and long-term treatment and recovery in which she makes several spiritual parallels, including "trusting in the arm of flesh" and completely removing dead tissue to prevent scarring. I'm fairly certain that when she was first laying on the sidewalk she wasn't thinking, "hey, this will make great material for a talk." More than likely, she saw the spiritual parallels as she reviewed the events and was able to use the history to learn more about the spiritual.

Bible history may be very similar. Let's take the Tower of Babel as an example. Suppose a large group of people gathered together. They begin trade and commerce. They practice religion. But their religion is impure and its leaders are corrupt. The leaders of these religions come together and decide to build a temple. They collect funds from local people to build the temple, and simultaneously use the funds to line their pockets; all the while teaching that building the temple will help everyone return to heaven. Eventually, the civilization disintegrates into factions, clans, all trying to improve their own status in the community. They begin fighting (haven't we seen time and again that the wicked are quite adept at destroying themselves) and the factions take off in different directions. Languages diversify. The temple is fought over and eventually destroyed. Then, 100 years later, someone writing the history sees the spiritual allegory contained in the actual events. When people attempt to draw nearer to God through false means and pretenses, they end up worse off than they started. The historians can add the spiritual significance in retrospect.

Now don't interpret me to say that this is what happened. I don't know what really happened with the Tower of Babel. But it is a plausible scenario. But, given an omnipotent God, there's no reason that a building couldn't be instantaneously destroyed and languages abruptly changed. Ultimately, as far as our spiritual needs are concerned, it doesn't matter what actually happened. The only thing that matters is what we learn from it.

Take another example...the serpent with Adam and Eve. Did the serpent really talk? or was the serpent a representation of earthliness (you don't get closer to the ground than the serpent)? Was the serpent chosen because of its venom--the things coming from its mouth will harm you? Was the serpent chosen of its proximity to the human heel? It says in Genesis that God cursed the serpent to go on its belly, eating dust all the days of its life? Did the serpent have feet before this curse, or was it chosen for its convenient symbolism? To be completely honest, I don't know and I don't care. I know what the lesson is, and that was what the prophets, and thus the Lord, were trying to tell me.

Debates like these are interesting, but they're also pretty silly, as they put our focus on technicalities when we really ought to be focusing on what we need to learn so that we can draw a little closer to God each day. If we are able to answer the question, "is the Bible literal?" will the answer make you any better a person than if we can't answer it?

[BenRaines]

I believe the parting of the Red Sea too. If God and His Son can create the Earth and all that are in it I don't think it that far fetched to divide the water and let them walk across on dry land. Sure he could have just sent fire down and destroyed the army of Pharoah but someone could say that was just comets and an act of nature. Dividing of the sea and walking across on dry land was a miracle.

Ben Raines

[hordak]

I believe the parting of the Red Sea too. If God and His Son can create the Earth and all that are in it I don't think it that far fetched to divide the water and let them walk across on dry land. Sure he could have just sent fire down and destroyed the army of Pharoah but someone could say that was just comets and an act of nature. Dividing of the sea and walking across on dry land was a miracle.

Ben Raines

Actually I read a really cool theory about how the plagues of Egypt were caused by a comet or volcanic eruption.Some scientist like it because it takes God out of the equation.Some Christians hate it for the same reason. I figure if God could provide us with light and dark by having the earth circle the sun and spin then he could cause the plagues (or any other event for that matter) with natural means as well. It doesn't prove anything one way or another and the debate continues on.

[NeuroTypical]

I don't put much weight in opinions, but since y'all asked, I vote:

Figurative/Symbolic: Creation story in Genesis

Literal: Christ's ministry & miracles, most other accounts of miracles.

I don't know: Story of Job, Noah's ark (could have been a local flood that covered what the folks of the time thought as 'the entire world')

LM

[Hemidakota]

Since the Savior spoke about Job, there is truth behind that one. Noah, this one requires a personal answer from GOD.

[Elgama]

Since the Savior spoke about Job, there is truth behind that one. Noah, this one requires a personal answer from GOD.

Bible Dictionary if your gonna take Noah as a story you can't have all the nativity as true either, most biblical stroies have a second witness

BIBLE DICTIONARY

Gabriel

Man of God.

The name of an angel sent to Daniel (Dan. 8: 16; Dan. 9: 21): to Zacharias (Luke 1: 11-19); and to Mary (Luke 1: 26-38). He is identified by latter-day revelation as Noah (HC 3: 386).

My personal view will always be its like all scripture the event happened, but it is written in such a way that it teaches us maximum amount about Heavenly Father, so may not be exactly how it happened but its what happened.

-Charley

[mnn727]

100% literal? No way. I believe much of it was mans attempt to explain things they could not understand. I also believe some are 'faith promoting stories' (all of Job for example, Balaam and the ass no doubt, Samson probably?)

Can we learn spiritual things even from the parts that are fictional? I think so.

[Justice]

James 5:

11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

It's possible that James references a fictional work, but not very likely.

The story of Job is as real as every other story in the Bible.

[deseretgov]

The problem I have with the "localized" flood is that the flood was supposed to be the earths baptism of water. unless the subject is completely submerged in water it's not a proper baptism.

Can we learn spiritual things even from the parts that are fictional? I think so.

That's why the saviour taught in parables. There was no real "good samaritan" but we learn important lessons from the story.

[JeanieV]

I've been on a forum for a while that USE to have evolutionists on it till the owner booted them all off . (A rather anti-Mormon owner, too, who has tolerated me however).

What was meant by the reply about it being known you can't inhabit the earth from one spot?? Sorry...still trying to learn how to navigate this site so not sure how to link to it. (Thought I had).

I've always pretty much accepted things, but we know there are errors in the Bible, too. And things were explained a lot different due to their perspective and lack of technology.

[JeanieV]

I don't put much weight in opinions, but since y'all asked, I vote:

Figurative/Symbolic: Creation story in Genesis

Literal: Christ's ministry & miracles, most other accounts of miracles.

I don't know: Story of Job, Noah's ark (could have been a local flood that covered what the folks of the time thought as 'the entire world')

LM

I've always believed the flood happened as stated, but there are scientists who refute this. They also believe, however, that we evolved from lower beings instead of a literal creation. That gets you into how old the earth is, how long man has been on the earth, etc. etc. Personally I think we just don't have all the answers but they will come.

[Hemidakota]

Bible Dictionary if your gonna take Noah as a story you can't have all the nativity as true either, most biblical stroies have a second witness

BIBLE DICTIONARY

Gabriel

Man of God.

The name of an angel sent to Daniel (Dan. 8: 16; Dan. 9: 21): to Zacharias (Luke 1: 11-19); and to Mary (Luke 1: 26-38). He is identified by latter-day revelation as Noah (HC 3: 386).

My personal view will always be its like all scripture the event happened, but it is written in such a way that it teaches us maximum amount about Heavenly Father, so may not be exactly how it happened but its what happened.

-Charley

Again, the story of the Deluge requires a witness and not speculation or assumption by church leaders. You need to see for yourself....

Have you met Gabriel?

[Hemidakota]

100% literal? No way. I believe much of it was mans attempt to explain things they could not understand. I also believe some are 'faith promoting stories' (all of Job for example, Balaam and the ass no doubt, Samson probably?)

Can we learn spiritual things even from the parts that are fictional? I think so.

Wasn't Job discussed in the D&C by the Savior?

[Hemidakota]

I've always believed the flood happened as stated, but there are scientists who refute this. They also believe, however, that we evolved from lower beings instead of a literal creation. That gets you into how old the earth is, how long man has been on the earth, etc. etc. Personally I think we just don't have all the answers but they will come.

No different in fabricating pre-man, history of the earth prior to Adam, and yet, I have not even witnessed one complete skeleton. Laughable but even science is not exact and always reinventing the field constantly. Even us, who seeked the truth are always changing our views based on personal instructions, witnessing the event, visions, or even dreams that is given to us.

Now, there is some truth behind humans came from lower intelligences but that is in another thread and explains why. Though, this was talked about 150-years ago, long before any person today can credit themselves for being the one to know this. For me, this is a major issue in this field right now.