Outside the Temple

[YellowLight]

It has been a while since I have posted on this forum as my beliefs have changed significantly over the last year. My DW and I no longer believe the church to be true, meaning that it is the one and only way to God and that we should now be completely miserable people without it. We are surprisingly happier and enjoying life more than we ever have despite the fact that we are now “under the control of Satan” as the church would put it. The upcoming Sunday School lesson “The Bitter Fruits of Apostasy” should explain how miserable we are supposed to be.

At any rate, DW and I have no quarrels with the church and we didn’t leave for the typical reasons that people like to assume…I guess it makes it seem more valid for them to assume we were offended or sinned. Both of our families are still active in the church and we have no intentions of stopping them or derailing their testimonies.

That was the milk…here is the meat. My DW’s sister is engaged to be married in the fall in the Temple. DW told her sister that she no longer believes but she is keeping it a secret from the rest of her family until DW is ready to tell them. DW doesn’t know yet whether or not she wants to attend the wedding and sit outside for the 30 minutes, just attend the small open house and be seen as the apostate, or not attend at all. DW and her sister have a very close relationship, in fact when DW told her about leaving the church, they both cried together as a lot is given up by leaving the church. I know DW just wants her sister to be comfortable and try to enjoy the wedding day, so, the question is this…have any of you faced a similar situation where someone was getting married and a family member could not attend, what did you do, and what do you feel would be the best option for DW and her sister?

[Hemidakota]

Being a sister, she should show support and attend what ever she can without distracting the spirit from her eternal decision.

[Jenamarie]

My brother was married last month, and my sister and her husband were outside the Temple (they left the church several years ago) as was the bride's dad (although he's still a member of the church, he does not currently have a recommend for reasons that are obviously nobody's business). Nobody made a stink about it. They waited out side, were there to greet the bride and groom when they came out of the Temple, and were included in all the pictures. They were treated like any other guests/family members.

[applepansy]

When my neice was married a few years ago, my brother (her father), was behind on his tithing. He did not attend the sealing ceremony or her endowment. He met us all outside the temple afterwards. It wasn't ackward. I was proud of him. His bishop has offered to sign his recommend if he promised to catch up the tithing. My brother said he didn't feel good about that.

I think the key here is to be honest and open with everyone prior to the wedding so that no one in the family is surprised. That way the focus can be on the wedding.

Your DW should be to as many of the celebrations as she can and support her sister as much as possible. I'm sorry that these things cause contention in families. Hopefully, after the heartache, which will be felt by family members who still believe the church is true, is softened by a little time it will not detract from the wedding.

applepansy

[jolee65]

I agree with Jenamarie its family go and stand outside the temple show your love and support take a few pictures then go home or the after party, then go home.

If leaving the church is something you decided to do, its your life.

My mom left the church it was hard at first but its her life, I would never try to make her feel uncomfortable about it.

[YellowLight]

When my neice was married a few years ago, my brother (her father), was behind on his tithing. He did not attend the sealing ceremony or her endowment. He met us all outside the temple afterwards. It wasn't ackward. I was proud of him. His bishop has offered to sign his recommend if he promised to catch up the tithing. My brother said he didn't feel good about that.

Thank you to everyone who has chimed in on this thus far. Our temple recommends have been expired for a while and even if they were current, we could not honestly attend. Your niece’s brother must have a good character and be a very honest man.

I think the key here is to be honest and open with everyone prior to the wedding so that no one in the family is surprised. That way the focus can be on the wedding.

I think you are right. Unfortunately, there is usually a lot of backlash that happens when a family member leaves and DW knows that her dad will be completely devastated.

Your DW should be to as many of the celebrations as she can and support her sister as much as possible. I'm sorry that these things cause contention in families. Hopefully, after the heartache, which will be felt by family members who still believe the church is true, is softened by a little time it will not detract from the wedding.

DW wants to be a part of this as it is a big day for her sister. Maybe we could plan on showing up when they are planning to get out, so that way we are not just sitting around but will still be there in time for the pictures. Also, as you mentioned, the last thing we want to do is take away the focus of the wedding for us leaving. It is our decision to leave and should be respected just as it should be for every religion. Thanks again.

[applepansy]

Thank you to everyone who has chimed in on this thus far. Our temple recommends have been expired for a while and even if they were current, we could not honestly attend. Your niece’s brother must have a good character and be a very honest man.

I think you are right. Unfortunately, there is usually a lot of backlash that happens when a family member leaves and DW knows that her dad will be completely devastated.

DW wants to be a part of this as it is a big day for her sister. Maybe we could plan on showing up when they are planning to get out, so that way we are not just sitting around but will still be there in time for the pictures. Also, as you mentioned, the last thing we want to do is take away the focus of the wedding for us leaving. It is our decision to leave and should be respected just as it should be for every religion. Thanks again.

Thank you. My brother is pretty awesome, even if he's younger and has a been a classic little brother I was and am very proud of him.

There will be hurt regardless of when you announce your decision to leave the church. Announcing your decision as far from the wedding as possible with help your DW's family deal with their feelings prior to the wedding. The more open you are to talking it through hopefully the more they will respect your decision.

One other thought. . . This depends on how your family communicates . . . how your DW's sister handles this will have a big impact on how the extended family reacts during the wedding planning and celebration. If she's ok with it and is verbal in her acceptance of you and your wife, others will follow and not make a big issue during the celebrations. (Usually. . . of course there are always exceptions)

I will pray there is very little contention for you and yours. Love should always prevail.

applepansy

[NeuroTypical]

DW doesn’t know yet whether or not she wants to attend the wedding and sit outside for the 30 minutes, just attend the small open house and be seen as the apostate, or not attend at all.

I don't understand - doesn't option 1 also make her look like an apostate? Or is option one more of a "make people think we're still active LDS, just with no current recommend" thing?

My vote for most all situations, in or out of the church, is this:

* Have the courage of your convictions - don't hide or lie about them. Let the chips fall where they may. Deal with the consequenses.

* Mature to a point where fear about other people's reactions are NOT a reason to put on a fake face/lie/deceive/pretend you're something you're not.

(This might sound harsh, but please understand, it's the same advice I give myself when I face a similar challenge. It's real easy advice to give, much harder to act on.)

LM

[cjmaldrich]

It has been a while since I have posted on this forum as my beliefs have changed significantly over the last year. My DW and I no longer believe the church to be true, meaning that it is the one and only way to God and that we should now be completely miserable people without it. We are surprisingly happier and enjoying life more than we ever have despite the fact that we are now “under the control of Satan” as the church would put it. The upcoming Sunday School lesson “The Bitter Fruits of Apostasy” should explain how miserable we are supposed to be.

At any rate, DW and I have no quarrels with the church and we didn’t leave for the typical reasons that people like to assume…I guess it makes it seem more valid for them to assume we were offended or sinned. Both of our families are still active in the church and we have no intentions of stopping them or derailing their testimonies.

That was the milk…here is the meat. My DW’s sister is engaged to be married in the fall in the Temple. DW told her sister that she no longer believes but she is keeping it a secret from the rest of her family until DW is ready to tell them. DW doesn’t know yet whether or not she wants to attend the wedding and sit outside for the 30 minutes, just attend the small open house and be seen as the apostate, or not attend at all. DW and her sister have a very close relationship, in fact when DW told her about leaving the church, they both cried together as a lot is given up by leaving the church. I know DW just wants her sister to be comfortable and try to enjoy the wedding day, so, the question is this…have any of you faced a similar situation where someone was getting married and a family member could not attend, what did you do, and what do you feel would be the best option for DW and her sister?

Finally, a person who has left the church AND doesn't want to rip it and any believers to shreds :) I guess there is hope for apostates (just kidding, just kidding)

I think that you should get extra points from the family for NOT being a hostile non-believing anti-Mormon... That's my 2 cents...

[BenRaines]

Personal experience: Our son was married last May. All three of his older sisters have been endowed. Two for their own weddings and one for her mission. Of the two that went to the temple when they were married the youngest has divorced, her husband was physically abusive. She stayed strong in the church until after the divorce and nothing was done to her spouse in a church situation regarding the physical abuse. Don't take the sacrament for a month or two.

She later met a very nice guy and they have married and have a beautiful little girl.

I tell you all this to say that at our son's wedding our daughter, the one who is endowed but no longer attends church sat outside with all the other people who love our son and his wife but could not enter the temple. No one thought anything different about it. As a matter of fact my dear friend turned to his wife and said "I wish Wendy was here". That is our daughter. That is all that was said at all.

We had over 70 people in the temple for their wedding and a couple of hundred outside to greet them when they came out of the temple.

You and your DW should go to the temple. Be there to welcome them when they come out of the temple and be in all the pictures with the newlywed couple.

Good luck,

Ben Raines

[YellowLight]

My DW spoke to her sister last night and she wants us there for the wedding. In all honesty, the sealing is only 30 minutes long, from walking in to the finish, so we figure we can just walk the grounds and make sure the camera guy is all set up for when they come out. Sounds like a good fit for everyone to be happy.

Many thanks to those here who have been more than helpful. Even though I don't believe the same things anymore, I still hold you with high respect. And, see, all apostates aren't that bad after all. :)

[Gwen]

are there any family members with small children that will be attending. at my sis sealing my mom (no longer active) came and watched my kids outside so that my husband and i could go. afterward she was in all the pics etc. as far as pics go she was at her daughters wedding. my sis and i both appreciated the opportunity for me to go in. no one made a big deal about it; someone has to watch the kids, consider it a service to the bride and groom.

[YellowLight]

are there any family members with small children that will be attending. at my sis sealing my mom (no longer active) came and watched my kids outside so that my husband and i could go. afterward she was in all the pics etc. as far as pics go she was at her daughters wedding. my sis and i both appreciated the opportunity for me to go in. no one made a big deal about it; someone has to watch the kids, consider it a service to the bride and groom.

Gwen,

Fortunately we have two small children and I am sure there will be other children there from her fiances family. So, another way that that works out perfectly. Of course then they would be associating with apostates and shouldn't enter the Temple. Just kidding

[Faded]

My DW’s sister is engaged to be married in the fall in the Temple. DW told her sister that she no longer believes but she is keeping it a secret from the rest of her family until DW is ready to tell them. DW doesn’t know yet whether or not she wants to attend the wedding and sit outside for the 30 minutes, just attend the small open house and be seen as the apostate, or not attend at all. DW and her sister have a very close relationship, in fact when DW told her about leaving the church, they both cried together as a lot is given up by leaving the church. I know DW just wants her sister to be comfortable and try to enjoy the wedding day, so, the question is this…have any of you faced a similar situation where someone was getting married and a family member could not attend, what did you do, and what do you feel would be the best option for DW and her sister?

Lovely sermon on how miserable the Church made you -- deleted from my quote as it really didn't help anyone understand your question. at all. I'd go with a shorter version next time perhaps.

Okay, not sure what DW is being used as here, since it has dozens of possible meanings. I'll go with "Dim Wit" which clearly must be referring to your spouse? Firstly, not a very nice thing to say about them and I'd make it a point to apologize to them. Female spouse obviously -- all those "her" and "she" references were a dead giveaway.

But as you say, DW (clearly a reference to either Dana White or Druid Wrestling -- you're going to have to explain that one) has a sister who is getting married. As it so happens, my wife and I had that exact scenario at our wedding. Her anti-Mormon literature loving grandfather was there. He waited outside at the temple and all was fine. Then again, he was very vocal in his contempt of the Mormon faith up to that point, so that may make it slightly different as he had nothing to hide. If the two of you are trying to keep your own contempt for Mormonism on the down and low -- well, this is a case where it's pretty much impossible to not be noticed just a little bit.

Tell your Dutch Walnut (honestly a terrible term of endearment, you should try to do better) that she should ask her sister for what her sister wants. It's not your Doris Whitingale's wedding. It's her sister's. I think that her sister would be able to say whether your Dream Whip's total absence from the temple wedding would be offensive and upsetting or not. Let the bride to be decide or at least let the bride be a big part of Desert Wolf's decision process. I think this should ensure that Dusty Wristwatch makes the best decision for the person whose feelings should matter the most on that day.

That's my $0.02

[OtterPop]

DW = darling wife or dear wife

Common on internet boards.

You thought you were cleverly poking fun at YellowLight's assumptions -- not to mention dismissing his person story -- but you were really just showing your own lack of manners.

[StallionMcBeastly]

Being a sister, she should show support and attend what ever she can without distracting the spirit from her eternal decision.

Agreed.

[LolaBella]

Im glad you've come to an agreement but I think this thread serves to remind me how painful and divisive marriages in the church can be. I can't think of any other church that separates families in this way from such an important time. I know you will all say its important etc, but what is more important than family? I would have a civil wedding then wait (even though its unfair-a punishment basically) to get the best of both worlds. If my family couldn't have come to our wedding, then thats what I would have done. It seems to work in Europe, so I dont see why not here in the U.S. Just my opinion, it seems so sad, fraught with stress and unnecessary.

[Iggy]

It seems to work in Europe, so I don't see why not here in the U.S.

There are many many countries that do not recognize our Temple marriage as legal. That is why the couples have the civil ceremony first - to appease their government, then the Church waives the one year waiting time so they can have their sealing right away.

It is my opinion that the Church feels that a Temple marriage/sealing is the most holy, sacred and precious of covenants.

At some weddings there can be anywhere from 20 to 1000 guests. At the Temple, I believe that 30 guests/witness' is the cut off amount. We were sealed in the Mesa Temple, and they told me that the large sealing room could hold 30 people. When I booked the sealing room for my husband and myself, they suggested that only the immediate family and a few close friends be invited. Husband had no family to invite. None are members. My family was too far away. So we invited our Home Teachers, Visiting Teachers, the Stake Patriarch (my Husbands Mentor and best friend) and a dear friend of mine from Oregon.

The sealing room was packed even though there were just us few mortals - Husbands and my deceased families were there. We could feel their joy for us, it actually overwhelmed us. Note: Husbands family are not members, not any of the living nor the dead. Yet he felt as though all of his Grandparents were there.

Do you really think that by having non-believing, and sometimes hostile to the LDS Church, family members there at that most holy ceremony would invite the Holy Ghost to remain?

There is a reason why the number of guests are limited - it is not a party- it is a holy and sacred ceremony.

If the parents truly loved their children, they would back off and encourage them to have the wedding their own way, and they would so with good grace.

Just my worth.