Relief is on the way

[bytor2112]

I'm pleased to announce that this morning the Treasury Department began directing employers to reduce the amount of taxes withheld from paychecks, meaning that by April 1st, a typical family will begin taking home at least $65 more every month," Obama said in his weekly radio address.

What a joke....

[LittleWyvern]

...why do you think this is bad?

[Palerider]

One thing that scares me.....I have not heard the whole speech.....I am wondering if and how I will be paying this back......I got to hear the rest

[Elphaba]

A Smarter Stimulus: Financial Page: The New Yorker

This is an interesting article where James Surowiecki states that, because the tax cut is realized by a monthly reduction in withholding tax, people will be more likely to spend it than if it were given as a lump sum.

He said people will look at the money as part of their monthly income, and adjust their budgets accordingly, often resulting in them spending it, thus putting it back into the economy.

He said it will not have a huge effect, and will not stimulate the economy by much, but that it will make a dent.

Elphaba

[Elphaba]

One thing that scares me.....I have not heard the whole speech.....I am wondering if and how I will be paying this back......I got to hear the rest

From the WhiteHouse.gov website:

#1, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act will start having an impact as soon as a few weeks from now, in the form of the quickest and broadest tax cut in history:

"Because of what we did, 95% of all working families will get a tax cut -- in keeping with a promise I made on the campaign. And I’m pleased to announce that this morning, the Treasury Department began directing employers to reduce the amount of taxes withheld from paychecks -- meaning that by April 1st, a typical family will begin taking home at least $65 more every month. Never before in our history has a tax cut taken effect faster or gone to so many hardworking Americans."

#2, once the economy has recovered and we’ve laid the groundwork for a sustainable future, the President is committed to taking on the massive deficits we inherited:

"That work begins on Monday, when I will convene a fiscal summit of independent experts and unions, advocacy groups and members of Congress to discuss how we can cut the trillion-dollar deficit that we’ve inherited. On Tuesday, I will speak to the nation about our urgent national priorities, and on Thursday, I’ll release a budget that’s sober in its assessments, honest in its accounting, and that lays out in detail my strategy for investing in what we need, cutting what we don’t, and restoring fiscal discipline." (emphasis mine)

I'm just posting what the site said, and have no opinion yet as to whether this is workable or not.

Elphaba

[jolee65]

I know that that 13.00 dollars extra a week is going to buy my milk and bread for the month.

weeeeeee

[Palerider]

just think of all the green jello a person could buy.....:D:lol:

[begood2]

just think of all the green jello a person could buy.....:D:lol:

Yeah, but just remember about the supply and demand effect! If the demand is high ........the price will go up!

[Elphaba]

I know that that 13.00 dollars extra a week is going to buy my milk and bread for the month.weeeeeee

Do you seriously not realize there are people who work two jobs to take care of their famlies, but still need to choose between paying the doctor, or buying milk and bread for their children?

They're the working poor, and have no health insurance. This money could make it possible for them not to have to make that choice. And if millions of families are putting that $13/week back into the economy, it will make a difference.

In fact, if don't need the money, why don't you, and the rest of you in the same boat, do the right thing and use that money to buy some groceries for a family who needs it? That way you will have done your part by putting that money back into the economy, and better yet, you will have done a kind thing, instead of your incessant mocking, mocking, mocking.

Elphaba

[Palerider]

Do you seriously not realize there are people who work two jobs to take care of their famlies, but still need to choose between paying the doctor, or buying milk and bread for their children?

They're the working poor, and have no health insurance. This money could make it possible for them not to have to make that choice. And if millions of families are putting that $13/week back into the economy, it will make a difference.

In fact, if don't need the money, why don't you, and the rest of you in the same boat, do the right thing and use that money to buy some groceries for a family who needs it? That way you will have done your part by putting that money back into the economy, and better yet, you will have done a kind thing, instead of your incessant mocking, mocking, mocking.

Elphaba

I do that every month somtimes twice a month...its called Fast Offerings.....:)

[NeuroTypical]

A few observations:

* Conservatives and Republicans are usually in favor of tax cuts.

* If you were for tax cuts before the election, and are now against this one, I'd love to hear why you're not practicing partisan politics. Here's a test - see if you can explain yourself without using the word "Obama".

* For me personally, my budget is closely-enough controlled that I will certainly notice $50/month extra. I can do all sorts of things with $600/yr.

* With all of Obama's campaign talk about tax raises and spreading the wealth and whatnot, I'll not turn down the tax cut. Yeah, I wish the increased deficit spending wasn't attached to the bill. Yeah, I wish it was an across-the-board tax cut for everyone. Yeah, I wish it had involved tax cuts for businesses instead of this increased socialism and govt intrusion. But this is a tax cut, and it really doesn't make sense to me to hear conservatives complaining about it.

LM

[jadams_4040]

What a joke....

Why is that a joke?

[bytor2112]

Why is that a joke?

You may recall that this was touted as an "emergency" stimulus bill. The bill is LOADED with pork and the "typical" "working" family will get a lousy additional $13.00 a week or what ever it shakes out to be. Additionally, much of the so-called tax cut is nothing more than rebate checks to people who don't pay taxes. This isn't stimulus.....it's a joke. Bush did something similar in 2001 and 2008....that was a joke too. If tax cuts stimulate the economy and they do, let's have real tax cuts, broad based and long term. Pork is always packed into spending bills, but in an "emergency" stimulus bill, this just stinks.

[Elphaba]

I do that every month somtimes twice a month...its called Fast Offerings.....:)

You were who I had in mind when I wrote my my post.

I almost suggested putting it into a fast offering, but I do not know where the money goes, and since the point is to spend the money to put it back into the economy, I decided not to.

I will always remember your blank envelopes. I think that's when I first realized what an incredible person you really are--but you had me fooled for a very long time!

Elphie

[Palerider]

You were who I had in mind when I wrote my my post.

I almost suggested putting it into a fast offering, but I do not know where the money goes, and since the point is to spend the money to put it back into the economy, I decided not to.

I will always remember your blank envelopes. I think that's when I first realized what an incredible person you really are--but you had me fooled for a very long time!

Elphie

:D:p:p:lol:

[Elphaba]

rebate checks to people who don't pay taxes.

Everyone pays taxes. These include, but are not limited to, the following:

Sales taxes

State income taxes

Local income taxes

Property taxes

Utility taxes

Gasoline taxes

Capital Gains taxes

We even pay taxes to get married or license our dogs.

Additionally, many people assume if a person receives a federal tax return, s/he hasn’t paid any federal taxes. This is not true.

Elphaba

Edited February 22, 2009 by Elphaba

[mlbrowninwa]

YES!!!!! Now i can run right out and buy that new truck I've been looking at!! Do they really think this is going to help?

[Elphaba]

YES!!!!! Now i can run right out and buy that new truck I've been looking at!!

Obama never intimated the tax cuts are going to enable you to afford a new truck, and using hyperbolic sarcasm to imply he did is lazy.

Do they really think this is going to help?

Of course they do. What an idiotic question.

Elphaba

[applepansy]

The changes in the tax code this year just took more. We ended up paying Federal and that hasn't happened in over two decades. The guy who does our taxes stated that more of his clients are paying instead of receiving refunds (he said more than 50% of his clients).

Where is my $13 a week going? Back to the goverment. It isn't going to do much for me.

We do not have health insurance. We can't afford the premiums. I guess that makes us the "working poor." I'm overwhelmed at the "help" and I'm wondering how much I'm going to pay back next year.

applepansy

[bytor2112]

Everyone pays taxes. These include, but are not limited to, the following:

Sales taxes

State income taxes

Local income taxes

Property taxes

Utility taxes

Gasoline taxes

Capital Gains taxes

We even pay taxes to get married or license our dogs.

Additionally, many people assume if a person receives a federal tax return, s/he hasn’t paid any federal taxes. This is not true.

Elphaba

We are all over taxed and you know what I meant. He is also going to let the Bush tax cuts expire....which is a tax increase and he's going to increase taxes on businesses. This bill stinks....even you should be able to see that.

Edited February 22, 2009 by bytor2112

[bytor2112]

Obama never intimated the tax cuts are going to enable you to afford a new truck, and using hyperbolic sarcasm to imply he did is lazy.

Of course they do. What an idiotic question.

Elphaba

Do you really believe they think this is going to help?????? Are you kidding me? Wow! Elphaba, I know you are a huge Obama fan and completely opposite from me politically,but even you must see that this stimulus bill is rotten? Aren't you disappointed? Aren't you saying to yourselves...."this just seems like business as usual in D.C.?" How does this bill address an economic emergency? Really, this is indefensible.

[Elphaba]

The changes in the tax code this year just took more. We ended up paying Federal and that hasn't happened in over two decades. The guy who does our taxes stated that more of his clients are paying instead of receiving refunds (he said more than 50% of his clients).

If this is true, it means Bush raised your taxes.

Additionally, since you explained below you cannot afford insurance premiums, I assume your income level does not rise above the average wages of the “middle class.” If I am correct, then Bush raised taxes on the middle class, contrary to what many people here believe.

(I acknowledge I’m making a huge presumption about your income status, and that I could be wrong. I am just using your situation, which I inferred from the little information you provided, as an example to illustrate my point.)

Where is my $13 a week going? Back to the government. It isn't going to do much for me.

It might not do much for your immediate budget and your circumstances, but if it does stimulate the economy, it will benefit you.

Don’t get me wrong--I’m not saying this stimulus is going to put all Humpty Dumpty’s pieces back again. But it is a start, if it works.

We do not have health insurance. We can't afford the premiums. I guess that makes us the "working poor."

I did not say not having health insurance makes someone a member of the working poor. I said the working poor have no health insurance. They are two completely different designations.

I clearly identified the working poor as people: “who work two jobs to take care of their families, but still need to choose between paying the doctor, or buying milk and bread for their children.”

I realize that is very vague, and so, to help everyone better understand this designation, the following is Wiki’s definition of the working poor, which is the same group I am talking about. It is also one of the groups Obama is trying to provide opportunities for to dig themselves out of the “working poor” category.

From Wiki:

Officially, in the United States, the working poor are defined as individuals who spent at least 27 weeks in the labor force (working or looking for work), but whose incomes fell below the official poverty level.

Often, those defined as "working poor" have negative net worth and lack the ability to escape personal and economic contingencies.

Workers without marketable skills may face low wages, potential economic exploitation, unpleasant working conditions, and few opportunities to attain skills that would allow them to escape their personal and economic situations. Unexpected costs (such as medical or repair costs) can substantially decrease the economic ability of the working poor to manage their lives.

In some cases, members of the working poor work at multiple part-time jobs, which require nearly full-time commitment but are classified as "part time". In this situation some benefits, like medical insurance, are not paid by employers. This situation is sometimes referred to as precarious employment. These workers are more often than not without adequate (or in many cases any) health insurance.

. . . ..

In the United States, according to the government Bureau of Labor Statistics, there were 6.4 million working poor in 2000; by 2003 the number had grown. In 2004, Business Week suggested that "the share of the workforce earning subpoverty pay [is] 24% [in 2003]".

Different numbers were found by The Working Poor Families Project, a national initiative that examines the conditions of working families both nationally and at the state level. In 2005, using U.S. Census American

Community Survey data, the project found that 2.8 million working families are poor (earn less than 100% of poverty) and that these families constituted 12.2 million people. In addition, 9.6 million, or more than 1 out 4 working families in America (29%), are low-income, earning less than 200% of poverty.

. . . .

A common expression of working poor conditions states that such individuals often live from "paycheck to paycheck".

You’ll note these people are willing to work; they are not the deadbeats so many people insist they are, and again, they are one faction of the population Obama is trying to create opportunities for them so they can pull themselves out of that category.

And to many of these families, that extra $50 a month will be a huge help. And given it is not a lump sum, but a weekly amount, people will be more likely to add it to their budget, which will put that money back into the economy.

That is the purpose of the tax break--to provide enough money to put back into the economy. Again, I acknowledge even if it works, it will not make a huge dent right now, but it will be a start.

Elphaba

[Elphaba]

We are all over taxed and you know what I meant.

No, I don't know what you meant. I know what I thought you meant, but apparently I was wrong.

He is also going to let the Bush tax cuts expire....which is a tax increase and he's going to increase taxes on businesses.

See my response to apple about Bush's tax cuts. The only people the tax cuts helped are the wealthy. People in poverty and most of the middle class did not benefit.

This bill stinks....even you should be able to that.

". . . even me?" What must you think of me Bytor.

Elphaba

[Elgama]

Like Jolee pointed out $13.00 a week can pay towards bread and milk - kind of important stuff or it works out at around $700 a year which is enough for me to pay car insurance off in one and avoid paying interest on it which in turn saves money or I could redecorate my living room which would enrich my families life for about 5 years

If we budget properly like our prophets tell us to do me like LM would notice and appreciate that extra money and certainly wouldn't see it as measly. But personally I'd rather have a better social programme

-Charley

[Moksha]

$13? Wouldn't that pay for the Sunday tuna casserole?