60% or 40%

[marshac]

No, this isn't another "net vs gross" tithing thread....

Tonight in the chat room, a statistic that 60% of converts become inactive after the first year came up. Since inactive/active is a somewhat binary condition, this implies that 40% remain active. For those of you in the 40% group, what kept you active? Conversely, for those of you in the 60%, what caused you to become inactive?

[Palerider]

I am curious to see where they found that stat....anyway......my testimony keeps me going back. I enjoy reading the Bible and Book of Mormon....awesome books.

[Gjh1960]

When I investigated the church 25 years ago, my testimony was just good enough to bring me into church, but was definitely insufficient for an entire life of activity. My wife joined the church together with me and sustained me whenever I lacked faith or strength or understanding to go forward - and viceversa.

This way we mastered all the roadblocks on the path so far.

[Elgama]

I come back because its where the Lord wants me to be. throughout my life He has earned my trust by constantly shining light and direction my way and showing me the wisest path my life should take. Even with the bad stuff - without it some of my greatest blessings would not have happened.

So for me as its where Heavenly Father wants me its the wise path for my life to take.

-Charley

[TheyCallMeMom]

I am not at a year (almost) but I do have some insight from recent experiences with not only myself but other converts, investigators etc..

The most common reasons I see people become inactive are 1. commitment and 2. emotions

When I first joined the church I think every single person told me, the church is true the people arent.. Being the synic I already am, I am not fond of people.. so that wasnt an issue for me.. I know peopel are judgmental hypocrites.. (when I say people I mean as a society...I know MANY MANY good persons)

I was not "recruited". we found the church, researched it and knew it was true before we ever even met with missionaries.. And that is the basis for my testimony.. and no one can change that.. ( I am very stubborn LOL)

as for my observances.. 1. people give up drinking and smoking temporarily. they make a good faith effort but fail.. for whatever reason.. It may be different for others, but 90% of the inactive's I know smoke and LOVE their coffee. 2. the clicks in the church can be tiresome.. again from my observations that several new members and investigators are treated like outsiders. not due to their newness, but to their income status.. I have seen members, not the church, but members of the church interact with these families differently.. When a new convert has tithing preached to them over and over and their income is limited and add in that the "the church is true, the people arent" speech they get discouraged..Everyone wants to belong.. to be apart of something.. when you feel you have nothing to contribute, you lose faith.. their testimony's arent truly built.. and then they stray.. Most converts have a past in other churches.. and obviously they are not active there either.. Many, from conversations with people. many quit going to church becasue they are made to feel inferior by members.. and it happens in the LDS as well.. I see our missionaries work very hard to get new members to church, but its up to all the members to help nourish their testimonies.

[marshac]

I was not "recruited". we found the church, researched it and knew it was true before we ever even met with missionaries.. And that is the basis for my testimony.. and no one can change that.. ( I am very stubborn LOL)

I love your avatar. I also found the church the same way you did; I read the owners manual and kicked the tires for about a year before giving it a test drive.

I've read similar stories that the church seems to have a hard time keeping new members for the very reason you cite. It seems as though the church has callings for everything except "new member retention", although perhaps i'm wrong, there may be just such a position. I know the elders mentioned that they also go visit inactive members, but that seems like triage after the fact.

Gjh1960- I hope my wife and I can help each other the way you two have :) That's great :)

Elgama- I hope I can keep the same conviction you have.

Palerider- You'll forever get my gold star. You've pointed me towards things that i'm sure will keep me going. I knew things were true, but didn't know WHY they were true. Without that crucial last piece of information, i'm POSITIVE I would have eventually fallen out.

[Palerider]

Its always easy to sit on the side and complain....get involved when going to church....volunteer to do something....participate in class...etc..

[Mirium]

I met a member of the church about 18mths before the missionaries knocked on my door. She taught me, became a great friend. I knew the church was true before the missionaries found me. After my baptism having a close friend in the church helped me even though she didn't go to the same ward as me.

I was given a visiting teaching list and a calling almost straight away which got me involved and interacting with people.

The ward mission leader and his wife fellowshipped not just me but also my non member husband and even now almost 10 years later, although my husband is still a not a member we are still firm friends.

Above all, the thing that has kept me active the most is the bond I have built with my Heavenly Father and my Saviour. I know they love me and have blessed me many times over the years. Life hasn't been easy, especially in a part member family, yes there are times when I want to give up and feel I can't do it anymore but its the bond I have with them and the desire to be with them again one day that keeps me going.

A testimony has to be kept strong by reading and praying, keeping the standards and commandments, loving and serving others. I don't know where I'd be without it.

Edited March 1, 2009 by Mirium

[Guest missingsomething]

Ok here's my list: (Ive been a member for 19 yrs)

1. Get thicker skin - everything someone says to you is NOT an insult...

2. Don't get tricked by Satan into being so prideful and boastful that you think you are NEVER at risk for being inactive or thinking "I'd never do that". Never seems to just invite Satan to prove you wrong.

3. Attend your meetings. Never miss more than one Sunday in a row... go on vacation - find a ward there.

4. Read your scriptures regularly - set goals so that you can track success. I never said, I'll read one chapter... because then sometimes you race thru. I always said.. I'll study for 15 min.

5. Get subscriptions to the Ensign (and darnit... I still like the New Era! Keeps me young at heart and for a new convert its sometimes easier to "get")

6. If you dont get a calling, let your bishop know you want one.

7. Keep praying and challenging everything you learn and inviting the spirit to witness to you.

8. Take the sacrament!

9. Order additional church books to study from - institute manuals are awesome, so is preach my gospel - and even though you're an adult - you can buy the seminary home study things and do that too although there is not "rush" and this would fulfill #4 :)

10. Did I say... GET THICKER SKIN? Try not to be offended by people.

Ok... not as good as Letterman... but still!

[Book_of_Mormon_Warrior]

No, this isn't another "net vs gross" tithing thread....

Tonight in the chat room, a statistic that 60% of converts become inactive after the first year came up. Since inactive/active is a somewhat binary condition, this implies that 40% remain active. For those of you in the 40% group, what kept you active? Conversely, for those of you in the 60%, what caused you to become inactive?

I suppose I am in the 60%, although my family was converted when I was 7, so I was essentially LDS my whole life.

I no longer am LDS for the simple reason that I don't feel some of it's teaching hold up in light of the Bible and Book of Mormon. I do thank the LDS church, however, for bringing the Book of Mormon into my life; it gave me a starting point when I began my own search for truth.

As far as what keeps me active in the Restoration as a whole... it's reading the Book of Mormon and getting that overwhelming feeling of "this is true" each time I do.

Edit: According to other comments on why members believe people leave the church, I guess I'm one of those rare cases where I didn't have some special sin I wanted to hold on to (I'm more strict now then as a member) or someone offend me (I love LDS people and miss the huge fellowship aspect)... It's doctrinal to me.

I think most converts leave because they get bored and it's easier not to go to church then to get up and go.

Edited March 1, 2009 by Book_of_Mormon_Warrior

[Guest missingsomething]

Edit: According to other comments on why members believe people leave the church, I guess I'm one of those rare cases where I didn't have some special sin I wanted to hold on to (I'm more strict now then as a member) or someone offend me (I love LDS people and miss the huge fellowship aspect)... It's doctrinal to me.

I think most converts leave because they get bored and it's easier not to go to church then to get up and go.

Please understand that I did not mean to imply that people leave because of hurt feelings. I thought the question posed was what WE did to stay active. :)

I personally think that the converts who fall away (especially in the first years) never really developed a testimony and acted more on the feeling of the spirit - and many, as you say, get "bored" or believe that their conversion is complete upon baptism. But there is a very personal reason for each and every person who leaves the church, just as there is a very personal reason for those who join the church.

EDIT - I also believe that every member - born into the church (or their parents join when they are still a kid) or join on their own later - everyone... must go through a conversion. I don't believe just because you grow up in the church that you gain a testimony. I often wonder if many 8 yr olds understand the true commitment that they are making when they are baptized... I think at that age it is more an act of faith and the conversion comes later. And i know there are exceptions...

Edited March 1, 2009 by missingsomething

[Snow]

No, this isn't another "net vs gross" tithing thread....

Tonight in the chat room, a statistic that 60% of converts become inactive after the first year came up. Since inactive/active is a somewhat binary condition, this implies that 40% remain active. For those of you in the 40% group, what kept you active? Conversely, for those of you in the 60%, what caused you to become inactive?

I think it's the cheese.

Man I love a good stilton or gouda.

[pam]

No, this isn't another "net vs gross" tithing thread....

I mean seriously...are you sure you aren't already a member...here you are spouting the net vs gross thing.

[Palerider]

In my opinion, there are 2 Sundays that are very important in the life of someone thats investigating the Church. The first one being, the very first time you attend while investigating. The second one is the Sunday after your Baptism. If they miss that Sunday the odds of them being active are very low.

[hordak]

I think it has to do with the milk before meat approach of the church.

My wife liked the "milk" that was taught by the missionaries. Then after attending for a while and learning about the "meat" she saw that it clashed with the bible based Christianity she grew up with.

The idea people leave to sin is an urban legend. People leave because they don't believe. If they don't believe the church is true then they don't see drinking coffee as a sin anymore then one who leaves the Jewish faith sees eating pork as sin. If a person believed the church was true they wouldn't trade salvation for starbucks.

[marshac]

I mean seriously...are you sure you aren't already a member...here you are spouting the net vs gross thing.

I assure you, i'm not.... today (sunday #2) several people asked if I was a new member or something..... I had to say "no". I wondered aloud with my wife today during dinner how many more lessons it'll take before folks start asking if we want to join... for a church that sends people out all over the planet (except antarctica?), it sure does seem hard to join. Perhaps i'll be more proactive next sunday and ask some people what the heck I have to do.

Today I really didn't want to go since my wife was working, so it was just going to be me. Fortunatly we have some next door neighbors who are LDS and offered to give me a ride with them.... so between that and me deciding that I was going to "do this", I made it out the door. I suspect the decision to "do it" every sunday will get easier as time goes on and it becomes a more integrated part of my life.

hordak- I agree that some of the teachings could be startling for someone who only knows what the missionaries have gone over prior to them becoming a member. Having done my own research for about a year, I made sure my wife knew everything I knew before we went down this path together. I love her and can't wait to head off to the temple with her someday :)

[pam]

Okay we'll make this easy. Can we set a baptism date for say.....? I will put together the program for you. hahaha See how easy?

[marshac]

Okay we'll make this easy. Can we set a baptism date for say.....? I will put together the program for you. hahaha See how easy?

If I didn't know how far away you were, I would call you on that one and say "yes" :)

In like 20 years when it finally gets around to happening, i'll send you a pic.

OT- Pam- do PMs not work?

[pam]

Pm's should be working. I've been getting some. I'll send you one to test.

[marshac]

I got yours- did you get mine?

[pam]

I just responded.

[Gjh1960]

I personally think that the converts who fall away (especially in the first years) never really developed a testimony and acted more on the feeling of the spirit - and many, as you say, get "bored" or believe that their conversion is complete upon baptism. But there is a very personal reason for each and every person who leaves the church, just as there is a very personal reason for those who join the church.

EDIT - I also believe that every member - born into the church (or their parents join when they are still a kid) or join on their own later - everyone... must go through a conversion. I don't believe just because you grow up in the church that you gain a testimony. I often wonder if many 8 yr olds understand the true commitment that they are making when they are baptized... I think at that age it is more an act of faith and the conversion comes later. And i know there are exceptions...

I've also seen new converts fall away rather quickly and suspected they never developed a testimony themselves - that faith brought them into church, nothing else.

Still, I think that it's nearly impossible from the outside to discriminate faith and testimony clearly, and therefore I hesitate to generalize.

Would generalisation not necessarily mean that all the people mentioned in church history like Sidney Rigdon and others who fell away after some years never had a real testimony either?

A testimony can shrink and disappear, if it is not nourished properly, and how to proof afterwards that it even existed?

You mentioned conversion and I think it's an essential aspect. I learned that for me, conversion is a lifelong process, and whenever I thought I'm already there and stopped moving (daily scripture study, personal prayer...), it weakened my testimony - and without continuing repentance I'd gone inactive in the end.

[hordak]

hordak- I agree that some of the teachings could be startling for someone who only knows what the missionaries have gone over prior to them becoming a member. Having done my own research for about a year, I made sure my wife knew everything I knew before we went down this path together. I love her and can't wait to head off to the temple with her someday :)

Good for you. ( and i don't mean that in a sarcastic way)

[Maxel]

What keeps me coming back is my testimony of the truthfulness of the Gospel. Over the years I've dealt with bouts of inactivity due to life situations (closely related to personal sin and mental illness), but I have never doubted the veracity of the Church's claims since my initial conversion at age 16. Never. I've seen bad people in the church; I've seen hypocrites with actions that make me sick. I've seen liars and adulterers take honors on themselves that they shouldn't. I've seen the leaders of cliques who are more concerned with social stature than spiritual welfare. I attend a young single adults ward; I've seen it all, it seems. (I recognize the laughter that statement might evoke among the more 'seasoned' (read 'old') members out there.) However, the Church and the teachings of Christ have never- never!- lead me in the wrong direction. That is why I continue to go attend: the church is the one organization in the world that teaches the Gospel of Christ as I have come to recognize it- and I recognize it as true and eternal.

In the past months, I baptized two friends who both went inactive. For one, it was due to issues with the Word of Wisdom (he couldn't stop smoking), and he felt guilty about attending Church. For the other friend... I don't know. What I do know is that a real testimony that a person tries to live by will always lead a person home to Christ, no matter what sidetracks their lives may take.