The Conception of Jesus Christ

[Ceebooboo]

On the contrary, I intentionally left out any names or direct quotations to avoid making this a finger-pointing exercise.

.

Hello again Vort,:)

You wanted to avoid making this a finger pointing exercise ???

I don't believe you. ( I think a re-read of your post is rather clear and mocking some, me included)

Enlighten you ???

No, I don't believe you ask in sincerity, rather out of sarcasm.

At any rate, I stand by my earlier comment that you not being able to share your thoughts on the topic ( instead of indeed finger pointing ) is a loss for ALL.

Peace,

Ceebooboo

[Vort]

Hello again Vort,:)

You wanted to avoid making this a finger pointing exercise ???

I don't believe you. ( I think a re-read of your post is rather clear and mocking some, me included)

Enlighten you ???

No, I don't believe you ask in sincerity, rather out of sarcasm.

At any rate, I stand by my earlier comment that you not being able to share your thoughts on the topic ( instead of indeed finger pointing ) is a loss for ALL.

Peace,

Ceebooboo

Uh...okay. Whatever.

[Jim108]

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in

that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and

searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy

scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation

through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,

and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for

instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly

furnished unto all good works.

2 Nephi 4:15 And upon these I write the things of my soul, and

many of the scriptures which are engraven upon the plates of

brass. For my soul delighteth in the scriptures, and my heart

pondereth them, and writeth them for the learning and the profit

of my children.

2 Nephi 4:16 Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the

Lord; and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I

have seen and heard.

Alma 17:2 Now these sons of Mosiah were with Alma at the time the

angel first appeared unto him; therefore Alma did rejoice

exceedingly to see his brethren; and what added more to his joy,

they were still his brethren in the Lord; yea, and they had waxed

strong in the knowledge of the truth; for they were men of a

sound understanding and they had searched the scriptures

diligently, that they might know the word of God.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have

eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Bro. Rudick

....and your point is what? To me (and to God) the Bible is the authority, it is the Word. Jim

[Jim108]

And here is an even greater simplifying factor: Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were mouthpieces of God. So if you want to know how to return to God, listen to them.

That's not to say that everything they are recorded to have said is completely accurate, especially given our current understanding of things. Also note that if a true statement is misinterpreted, it becomes false. Many of the statements attributed to Brigham Young (and Joseph Smith) that we now hold to be false may in fact be true, and we're simply too ignorant to understand them.

"Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were mouthpieces of God."

You are also a mouthpiece of God and so am I. You and I are not greater than BY or JS and no less. I only mentioned how much misinformation is floating around this thread and many other threads. My advice, believe in the Word. ...and the Word is found in the Bible. Believe in Jesus with all your heart. If your faith does not start and end with Jesus you are in the wrong place. God nevers said "join a religion". I am not religious, I am a follower of Jesus. Period. God Bless, Jim

[Vort]

....and your point is what? To me (and to God) the Bible is the authority, it is the Word. Jim

The Word is Christ, not a book. The Bible makes that perfectly clear.

[Just_A_Guy]

Jim108, methinks thou art trolling.

[talisyn]

The absurdity of this thread astounds me.

ABSURDITY FROM ONE SIDE

• "I understand the mysteries of God, including the creation of Jesus Christ, AND I'm authorized and perfectly comfortable discussing them in public."
• "Our mortal minds and frames of reference, coupled with our current understanding of the laws of science, are perfectly adequate to explain all these matters."
• "The scriptures give a full and complete explanation of the conception of Jesus Christ! And if they don't, I am able, qualified, and authorized to fill in the blanks."
• "Some of these ideas may offend the sensitive and may even bring about bad feelings toward the Church and its members...but that's okay! If people can't deal with (my opinions of) The Truth®, then that's their tough luck."
• "There is nothing about discussing God's putative sexuality that can be considered offensive or in extremely poor taste."

ABSURDITY FROM THE OTHER SIDE

• "Sex? Ewwww! That's just GROSS!"
• "God could not possibly have engaged in a coital act. I know this because, well, it's gross! Yuck!"
• "I do not hate sex. In fact, I love sex. At its best, it is as noble and Godly an act as we humans engage in. But don't ask me to believe that God 'does it'. That's just -- ewwww, gross!"
• "One of the things that sets Latter-day Saints apart from many other Christians and from the ancient Catholic tradition is that we view the procreative act as a great and beautiful gift from God, not a base and animalistic expression of lust. But of course, God is above all that, because...ewwww, gross!"
• "Clearly, in the conception of Jesus, we are talking about matters far above our present technology. In vitro fertilization, done at a level far more sophisticated than we can conceive (heh, heh), must be taking place. The truth is, we don't know how God created Jesus inside Mary's body, but we DO know that it can't be, well, you know, the normal way, because that would just be GROSS!"

Just...wow.

That is all.

Yeah I said 'eeewwww'. I stand by my post. I defy you to find any 9 year old girl who thinks sex isn't 'eeewww'.

[Madriglace]

I guess I am very simplistic in my view of the gospel. You either accept the divinity of Jesus Christ or you don't ... knowing the mechanics of how He was convceived is not going to get me any closer to being back where I belong. So while it is an interesting subject for speculation what good does it do anyones eternal progression? I have faith enough to know that Heavenly Father knew what he was doing .... and I am so glad He did. JMHO

BTW the Savior wasn't 1/2 anything ... he was mortal while He was here and was and is all God all the time.

[Vort]

Hello again Vort,:)

You wanted to avoid making this a finger pointing exercise ???

Correct.

I don't believe you.

So you are calling me a liar?

Enlighten you ???

No, I don't believe you ask in sincerity, rather out of sarcasm.

No sarcasm, I assure you.

At any rate, I stand by my earlier comment that you not being able to share your thoughts on the topic ( instead of indeed finger pointing ) is a loss for ALL.

How ironic. I share my thoughts, just to be told by you how sad it is I don't share my thoughts. I invite discussion and commentary, only to be told by you that I don't really want discussion or commentary. You apparently believe that you know me even better than I know myself.

Peace,

Ceebooboo

Your actions and responses belie your claim of peaceful intentions.

[Just_A_Guy]

BTW the Savior wasn't 1/2 anything ... he was mortal while He was here and was and is all God all the time.

Perhaps true; but my understanding is that He had full control over whether, and when, he chose to give up His life. See, e.g., Talmage in Jesus the Christ, p. 388:

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." The certainty of His death and of His subsequent resurrection are here reiterated. A natural effect of His immortal origin, as the earth-born Son of an immortal Sire, was that He was immune to death except as He surrendered thereto. The life of Jesus the Christ could not be taken save as He willed and allowed. The power to lay down His life was inherent in Himself, as was the power to take up His slain body in an immortalized state.

[Ceebooboo]

Correct.

So you are calling me a liar?

No sarcasm, I assure you.

How ironic. I share my thoughts, just to be told by you how sad it is I don't share my thoughts. I invite discussion and commentary, only to be told by you that I don't really want discussion or commentary. You apparently believe that you know me even better than I know myself.

Your actions and responses belie your claim of peaceful intentions.

Calling you a liar??? Yes

No sarcasm?? I STILL don't believe you.

No, you shared no thoughts on the topic of the thread, you did mock and point fingers.

Peace. Yes that was a sincere wish as evident by my very short responses to your mocking and finger pointing.

Peace,

Ceebooboo

[Madriglace]

Perhaps true; but my understanding is that He had full control over whether, and when, he chose to give up His life. See, e.g., Talmage in Jesus the Christ, p. 388:

Absolutely .. He knew who He was and what He was to do from the start. I always find it interesting when people say the Jews killed Him ... it was His choice to give up His life ... no one took it from Him. Such a gift!

[Vort]

Calling you a liar??? Yes

As long as we're communicating clearly.

[Hemidakota]

That's the kind of thing I mean though. Surely we can't all end up being identical in the afterlife - or even Jesus and Heavenly Father being identical. That would be too confusing. The Prophet says that all the Twelve looked the same but we are told that we are not to take that to mean they were identical. If we are to 'receive his image in oiur countenance' it doesn't mean we ae going to end up looking like him and lose our own identity does it?

True! It would be totally confusing if we all looked alike. :)

Read D&C 137 concerning the Celestial Glory and how the Prophet Joseph Smith recognized his family members. If they were identical to the Godhead - not including the Holy Ghost - it would had been impossible for him to distinguish who is who. :)

Againl if you had witnessed the Son in His glory, He would be identical to the FATHER.

[Jim108]

The Word is Christ, not a book. The Bible makes that perfectly clear.

Yes, you are right, thank you, Jim

[Jim108]

Jim108, methinks thou art trolling.

...and what does that mean? Jim

[Justice]

Absolutely .. He knew who He was and what He was to do from the start. I always find it interesting when people say the Jews killed Him ... it was His choice to give up His life ... no one took it from Him. Such a gift!

The scriptures teach that Jesus learned line upon line, until He came to a fullness.

[Vort]

Jim108, methinks thou art trolling.

...and what does that mean? Jim

Trolling is a type of fishing activity in a boat, where you set your line in the water and then go up and down (or around and around) seeing if any fish will take your lure. In internet usage, "trolling" refers to someone saying something purely to get a reaction out of people, rather than to forward useful discussion. As in the fishing example, the troller (or "troll") is not giving the fish any real food, just looking to get a bite.

Personally, I don't think you're a troll, but I do find it curious that you come to an LDS-oriented site and act appalled or confused by expressions of LDS doctrine. The doctrine itself can be confusing to those who don't understand it, of course, but the fact that the majority of users on this site hold to those doctrines should be obvious.

[Madriglace]

The scriptures teach that Jesus learned line upon line, until He came to a fullness.

He learned line uppon line but He knew who He was ... like the time they founf Him in the temple as a child where he said he was about His fathers business.

[Faded]

This is a doctrinal arena of stupid speculation in the LDS Church ranking right up there with Adam and Eve coming to earth on a space ship and the Adam God theory. Painfully obviously false doctrine, yet Latter Day Saints seem absolutely giddy about speculating all the way up to, "Mary will be the wife of God and not Joseph in the eternities."

--The notion that God the Father had sex with Mary is offensive and degrading of God the Father.

--The whole idea is offensive to people of other faiths -- and rightly so.

--We do not have any official teaching in our Church to back it up, but we have scriptures directly contradicting it.

[Jim108]

Trolling is a type of fishing activity in a boat, where you set your line in the water and then go up and down (or around and around) seeing if any fish will take your lure. In internet usage, "trolling" refers to someone saying something purely to get a reaction out of people, rather than to forward useful discussion. As in the fishing example, the troller (or "troll") is not giving the fish any real food, just looking to get a bite.

Personally, I don't think you're a troll, but I do find it curious that you come to an LDS-oriented site and act appalled or confused by expressions of LDS doctrine. The doctrine itself can be confusing to those who don't understand it, of course, but the fact that the majority of users on this site hold to those doctrines should be obvious.

Thank You, God Bless, Jim

[Jim108]

This is a doctrinal arena of stupid speculation in the LDS Church ranking right up there with Adam and Eve coming to earth on a space ship and the Adam God theory. Painfully obviously false doctrine, yet Latter Day Saints seem absolutely giddy about speculating all the way up to, "Mary will be the wife of God and not Joseph in the eternities."

--The notion that God the Father had sex with Mary is offensive and degrading of God the Father.

--The whole idea is offensive to people of other faiths -- and rightly so.

--We do not have any official teaching in our Church to back it up, but we have scriptures directly contradicting it.

I agree, Jim

[Ceebooboo]

--The whole idea is offensive to people of other faiths -- and rightly so.

Hello Faded,

Indeed, it is offensive, to say the least.

I wonder though, how can so many LDS members seem to disagree on this " teaching " or " not teaching "???

Peace,

Ceebooboo

[Vort]

This is a doctrinal arena of stupid speculation in the LDS Church ranking right up there with Adam and Eve coming to earth on a space ship and the Adam God theory.

Agreed. There is no doctrinal teaching on this subject beyond "God is the Father of Jesus Christ and Mary is his mother." Any other public expression is speculation of a type better left in private, or simply avoided altogether.

--The notion ... is offensive and degrading

How so?

--The whole idea is offensive to people of other faiths -- and rightly so.

How so? I understand how they might be offended by the idea, since most other faiths do not envision God in physical terms. But since we know that God does indeed have a literal physical body, and that our bodies are made in his likeness, how is the idea "rightly" offensive?

Edited March 26, 2009 by Vort

[Faded]

How so? I understand how they might be offended by the idea, since most other faiths do not envision God in physical terms. But since we know that God does indeed have a literal physical body, and that our bodies are made in his likeness, how is the idea "rightly" offensive?

It paints the God that I adore and that they adore as a letch and a womanizer.

I'm at least equally offended by the notion.