Thru the Veil

[mikbone]

When we come to Earth we pass thru the veil and our pre-mortal memories are wiped.

We know that some prophets have parted the veil and seen the other side. I assume that when a person receives his calling and election that they are allowed to part the veil. We also know that Christ was able to penetrate the veil and recollect his pre-mortal memories early in his life.

My question is this. When we pass thru this life into the next, I had assumed that we were able to recieve our pre-mortal memories. But after contemplation I wonder if only those who are able to enter into the Celestial Kingdom and pass thru the veil will be granted their pre-mortal memories? I also believe in justice, thus it makes sense that the same rules that apply here apply there, so I'm wondering if each of us has to have our Calling and Election made sure either here on Earth or in heaven prior to receiving our pre-mortal memories.

I think it would be cruel to let those people in the Telestial and Terestrial Kingdoms have their pre-mortal memories. Also interesting is that all of the other churches that preach that there is no pre-existence will kinda have a point. If they never convert to the full truth, they will never recognize that there was a pre-existence.

[Justice]

Also interesting is that all of the other churches that preach that there is no pre-existence will kinda have a point. If they never convert to the full truth, they will never recognize that there was a pre-existence.

I had never considered this part of the discussion.

Truth just tastes good though, and that morsel is quite delicious.

[HiJolly]

When we come to Earth we pass thru the veil and our pre-mortal memories are wiped.

Right. 'Withheld' might be a better word...

We know that some prophets have parted the veil and seen the other side. I assume that when a person receives his calling and election that they are allowed to part the veil. We also know that Christ was able to penetrate the veil and recollect his pre-mortal memories early in his life.

Right.

My question is this. When we pass thru this life into the next, I had assumed that we were able to recieve our pre-mortal memories. But after contemplation I wonder if only those who are able to enter into the Celestial Kingdom and pass thru the veil will be granted their pre-mortal memories? I also believe in justice, thus it makes sense that the same rules that apply here apply there, so I'm wondering if each of us has to have our Calling and Election made sure either here on Earth or in heaven prior to receiving our pre-mortal memories.

While the veil is parted for those whom receive their calling and election, nevertheless it is not a restoration of all their former memories. Not yet. These are two very different things.

I think it would be cruel to let those people in the Telestial and Terestrial Kingdoms have their pre-mortal memories.

Difficult, but necessary. You are assuming no movement between kingdoms, I see. hmm...

Also interesting is that all of the other churches that preach that there is no pre-existence will kinda have a point. If they never convert to the full truth, they will never recognize that there was a pre-existence.

They will be guided after death, just as they are before death, but the Spirit. God's purposes will not be frustrated, IMO.

HiJolly

[Just_A_Guy]

Mikbone, are you suggesting that persons who attain a Terrestrial or Telestial glory won't know that there was a pre-mortal life? Or merely that they won't remember it?

[mikbone]

Mikbone, are you suggesting that persons who attain a Terrestrial or Telestial glory won't know that there was a pre-mortal life? Or merely that they won't remember it?

I think they will have no recollection. They obviously will have hearsay. Possibly they will be able to view videos of important events that occured during the pre-existence. But for example they will not remember that they promised a special person that they would find them in mortality and have a family with them, and progress thru eternity with them... That would just be cruel.

[john doe]

There are reasons why it is called Hell. Hell, to me, is when you realize what you could have been or done and chose otherwise. I believe that this is the part where we become racked with torment because we realize our wasted potential.

[Just_A_Guy]

But for example they will not remember that they promised a special person that they would find them in mortality and have a family with them, and progress thru eternity with them... That would just be cruel.

Ah. I personally reject the idea that such Julie/Todd promises were commonplace in the pre-mortal life, but I have a better idea where you're coming from now. Thanks.

[beefche]

There are reasons why it is called Hell. Hell, to me, is when you realize what you could have been or done and chose otherwise. I believe that this is the part where we become racked with torment because we realize our wasted potential.

But are the Telestial and Terrestial Kingdoms really hell? The people who are judged to be in those kingdoms may suffer a hell--but I think that once they attain either of those kingdoms, they will be satisfied and won't be in hell again.

[Traveler]

All will have a full recollection when we stand before G-d to be judged. Until then no one will have the veil completely lifted.

The Traveler

[john doe]

But are the Telestial and Terrestial Kingdoms really hell? The people who are judged to be in those kingdoms may suffer a hell--but I think that once they attain either of those kingdoms, they will be satisfied and won't be in hell again.

Not necessarily. I believe that hell is when someone reviews their life and realizes that if only they had tried just a little bit more they could have attained a better inheritance. It would be like if your school gave out cars at the end of the year based on how hard you tried. Some students would really put a lot of effort into it, some students maybe figure they can get good grades without pushing themselves to much, and some students don't even try. So at the end of the year, you all go out and see what you got, and you see some kids driving off in Lamborghinis, Ferrarris, Cadillacs, Hummers, etc. So you start looking around for your, and you see that you got a base model Geo Metro without air conditioning. Now, the Metro isn't that bad of a car, it's certainly not a Yugo, but it's no Ferrarri either. Hell is when you realize that all you had to do was study a little bit harder, pay more attention in class, and be a little more help to your friends, and you could be driving the Ferrarri instead of the Metro. Sure, the Metro is a good car, semi-reliable and all, and it beats walking, but it's also no Ferrarri. Hell is driving the Metro while constantly being reminded that you could be driving the Ferrarri if only you had tried just a little bit harder.

By the same token, Hell is knowing that you didn't try hard enough to return to the presence of you Father and Mother in Heaven. All it would have taken is just a little bit, but you decided to coast instead of doing your best. Yeah, you've got a nice house in the woods with a hot tub and rustic log decor, but it's nothing compared to what you could have had if only you had applied yourself to doing the Lord's work.

[mikbone]

Ah. I personally reject the idea that such Julie/Todd promises were commonplace in the pre-mortal life, but I have a better idea where you're coming from now. Thanks.

Dunno about Julie/Todd promises. But Im pretty darn positive that at least some of my children and I had relationships in the pre-existence. Based both on patriarchal blessing and intuition. Of course having 8 kids increases these possibilities. :)

[hordak]

Hell is driving the Metro while constantly being reminded that you could be driving the Ferrarri if only you had tried just a little bit harder.

The metro is a fuel efficient car that does the same thing the Ferrari does (essentially) without being prideful:p

I know what your saying and while some might be in "their own hell" many will not want the Ferrari

[Guest tomk]

When we come to Earth we pass thru the veil and our pre-mortal memories are wiped.

We know that some prophets have parted the veil and seen the other side. I assume that when a person receives his calling and election that they are allowed to part the veil. We also know that Christ was able to penetrate the veil and recollect his pre-mortal memories early in his life.

My question is this. When we pass thru this life into the next, I had assumed that we were able to recieve our pre-mortal memories. But after contemplation I wonder if only those who are able to enter into the Celestial Kingdom and pass thru the veil will be granted their pre-mortal memories? I also believe in justice, thus it makes sense that the same rules that apply here apply there, so I'm wondering if each of us has to have our Calling and Election made sure either here on Earth or in heaven prior to receiving our pre-mortal memories.

I think it would be cruel to let those people in the Telestial and Terestrial Kingdoms have their pre-mortal memories. Also interesting is that all of the other churches that preach that there is no pre-existence will kinda have a point. If they never convert to the full truth, they will never recognize that there was a pre-existence.

Interesting thoughts!!

I know that God is merciful. None of this is being done to make us miserable. He really really REALLY ( did I mention "really" ? LOL ) wants us to return to His presence! He's not up there waiting with a stick to smash us when we do something wrong.

Alma 11:43 The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt.

Perhaps part of that bright recollection will be a knowing of our pre-mortal life, relationship with God, and the realization that He did do all in His power to bless us.

2 Ne. 9: 14

14 Wherefore, we shall have a perfect knowledge of all our guilt, and our uncleanness, and our nakedness; and the righteous shall have a perfect knowledge of their enjoyment, and their righteousness, being clothed with purity, yea, even with the robe of righteousness.

1 Cor. 13: 12

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Tom

[john doe]

The metro is a fuel efficient car that does the same thing the Ferrari does (essentially) without being prideful:p

I know what your saying and while some might be in "their own hell" many will not want the Ferrari

Oh come on! You're telling you'd rather drive a Metro than a Ferrarri? That's just plain sick.

[TheAngelPalmoni]

When we come to Earth we pass thru the veil and our pre-mortal memories are wiped.

We know that some prophets have parted the veil and seen the other side. I assume that when a person receives his calling and election that they are allowed to part the veil. We also know that Christ was able to penetrate the veil and recollect his pre-mortal memories early in his life.

My question is this. When we pass thru this life into the next, I had assumed that we were able to recieve our pre-mortal memories. But after contemplation I wonder if only those who are able to enter into the Celestial Kingdom and pass thru the veil will be granted their pre-mortal memories? I also believe in justice, thus it makes sense that the same rules that apply here apply there, so I'm wondering if each of us has to have our Calling and Election made sure either here on Earth or in heaven prior to receiving our pre-mortal memories.

I think it would be cruel to let those people in the Telestial and Terestrial Kingdoms have their pre-mortal memories. Also interesting is that all of the other churches that preach that there is no pre-existence will kinda have a point. If they never convert to the full truth, they will never recognize that there was a pre-existence.

You are wrong

[HiJolly]

You are wrong

Boy, that's *really* helpful. NOT! What do you mean by such an unhelpful response?

HiJolly

[hordak]

Oh come on! You're telling you'd rather drive a Metro than a Ferrarri? That's just plain sick.

The Ferrari has a higher cost of ownership. And to some the cost isn't worth it.

[Ezequiel]

there are plenty of references concerning the judgement and receiving a recollection of our memories/guilt. I totally agree with the comment about that being the time we are able to remember our premortality. Imagine how familiar everything will be when we see God face to face!?

There is actually a quote about that...I don't remember who said it or how it went.

[mikbone]

I think that recollections of our memories and guilt apply to our mortal actions. I dont think any of us did anyting that would lead to guilt during the pre-existence (were here so we passed the pre-mortal test), congradulations everyone!

[Ezequiel]

but why would we feel guilty if we didn't remember we agreed to follow Christ in the premortality!?

[mikbone]

You would be guilty for your sins that you comitted during this life. Every single one that you had not fully repented of.

[mikbone]

You wouldnt, thats the point.

[Ezequiel]

yeah but if those that "are righteous shall be righteous still, and those that are wicked, shall be wicked still" and their desires and moral etiquettes will not change, then if they don't feel bad for their sins here, they wouldn't there before God. Lucifer, as well as the wicked spirits Jesus Christ found during His mortal ministry did not feel repentant or guilty by being in His presence.

I can see that what you are saying is definetly a part of it - but not all. For someone who did not hear the gospel in mortality they have no reaosn to feel guilty. The scriptures say "where there is no law, there is no punishment". You would not feel guilty for braking a law you didn't know existed. So for what other reason would you feel guilty?

I really don't have anything that says that that will be the moment that you will regain your memories from the premortality, but as we discuss more this subject and I try to validate my point it just makes more and more sense to me(or am I losing sanity :) ). I don't have a problem admitting I'm wrong, but it sure seems like that to me at this moment. I really think you'd feel awfull because you will have a recollection of yourself vowing to keep the commandaments in the premortality and then you were not valiant on earth like you promised your Father, in person, you would. Doesn't that seem like a reason to feel as guilty as the scriptures say you will?

I'm at work right now, and don't have the scriptural references I'm basing my opinion on. I suppose I need to study more on the subject also! =)

Edited April 1, 2009 by Ezequiel

[mikbone]

Everyone has the light of Christ. People know when they do something wrong. I think at the final judgement we will be able to have a perfect recollection of all our actions, thoughts, and motivations, and our judge will also be privy to those same actions, thoughts, and motivations. Our mortal lives will be an open book to read and there will be no deception.

We will not be judged on our pre-mortal lives.

All Im saying is that, passing thru the veil is an ordinance. And with that ordinance comes the foreknowledge of the pre-existence. When you die you go to heaven, but that dosent mean that you necessairly get to pass thru the veil. I think that many people think that when this life passes that there will be some huge enlightment and all our prior gifts and knowledge will come rushing back. Line upon line, precept upon percept.

"Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come." D&C 130:18-19

[Madriglace]

Everyone has the light of Christ. People know when they do something wrong. I think at the final judgement we will be able to have a perfect recollection of all our actions, thoughts, and motivations, and our judge will also be privy to those same actions, thoughts, and motivations. Our mortal lives will be an open book to read and there will be no deception.

We will not be judged on our pre-mortal lives.

All Im saying is that, passing thru the veil is an ordinance. And with that ordinance comes the foreknowledge of the pre-existence. When you die you go to heaven, but that dosent mean that you necessairly get to pass thru the veil. I think that many people think that when this life passes that there will be some huge enlightment and all our prior gifts and knowledge will come rushing back. Line upon line, precept upon percept.

"Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come." D&C 130:18-19

Just a question to consider ... why would a loving Father encourage us to learn all we can and then take it away? We go home with all we have learned here ... it only makes sense that we will regain all we learned before. I look forward to having all I have learned all together and then learning more.

D&C 93: 36

36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.