The Sixth Sense

[mikbone]

You must have seen this movie if you are gonna make a comment btw.

This movie is directed by M. Night Shyamalan and stars Bruce Willis and Haley Joel Osment. Bruce Willis' character has some experiences in the first 90% of the movie that we experience with him. During the last 10% of the movie we have a different perspective of the experiences that are interpreted by Haley Joel Osment's point of view, and it totally makes Bruce Willis' character re-define the meaning behind his previous experiences. It is a profound awakening.

I liken this experience to being LDS in a way. When non-LDS christians read the scriptures they have an interpretation based upon their core beliefs. LDS members on the other hand have the Book of Mormon, D&C, and modern day revelation that gives us a distinct advantage in understanding the bible and basic truth about God and the plan of salvation.

I have seen quite a few exercises in debate in these forums trying to explain the differences between LDS doctrine and mainstream christian doctrine and seems to be an effort in futility. Going back to The Sixth Sense you may recollect that Osment's character never had an argument with Willis' character telling him that his pre-enlightenment views were incorrect. He just listened and set a good example. And he let Willis come to the realization of the truth in his own due time. I suggest that we try to be more like Osment's character and stop the futile debates. We know the truth. We should continue to present the truth and our core beliefs clearly and in an honorable fashion with scripture and testimony.

Maybe we should make a non-LDS Gospel Discussion forum?

[pam]

We already have one.

[Justice]

You know, mik, I used to be so patient. Thanks for the reminder.

Part of it is I don't even like discussing belief, works, and faith and basic things such as that anymore because I'd rather be talking about the pre-mortal existence or other aspects about the Plan of Redemption that people who aren't founded in the Book of Mormon can never gleen from the Bible.

Speaking of, 3 Nephi chapter 6 and 7... Good stuff, Maynard.

[mikbone]

What's really kool about this Sixth Sense analogy is that I think it applies to LDS members also.

When I read and understood the King Follett Discourse, I also had an awakening experience that changed how I interpreted many of my previous LDS beliefs. Was wondering if this happened to anyone else?

[Misshalfway]

SHoot. I thought this thread was about dead people.

[Traveler]

You must have seen this movie if you are gonna make a comment btw.

This movie is directed by M. Night Shyamalan and stars Bruce Willis and Haley Joel Osment. Bruce Willis' character has some experiences in the first 90% of the movie that we experience with him. During the last 10% of the movie we have a different perspective of the experiences that are interpreted by Haley Joel Osment's point of view, and it totally makes Bruce Willis' character re-define the meaning behind his previous experiences. It is a profound awakening.

I liken this experience to being LDS in a way. When non-LDS christians read the scriptures they have an interpretation based upon their core beliefs. LDS members on the other hand have the Book of Mormon, D&C, and modern day revelation that gives us a distinct advantage in understanding the bible and basic truth about God and the plan of salvation.

I have seen quite a few exercises in debate in these forums trying to explain the differences between LDS doctrine and mainstream christian doctrine and seems to be an effort in futility. Going back to The Sixth Sense you may recollect that Osment's character never had an argument with Willis' character telling him that his pre-enlightenment views were incorrect. He just listened and set a good example. And he let Willis come to the realization of the truth in his own due time. I suggest that we try to be more like Osment's character and stop the futile debates. We know the truth. We should continue to present the truth and our core beliefs clearly and in an honorable fashion with scripture and testimony.

Maybe we should make a non-LDS Gospel Discussion forum?

Many years ago I was asked by some friends to help defend the LDS church on the Dr. Laura forum (which no longer exists). I posted under the name “SonofSaul”. The forum was a rather brutal assault of LDS beliefs. I spent the first three months just reading posts and getting a feel for things. During this time I saved many posts because I felt they were good posts and if a non-LDS person posted them there was no attack.

I then started posting openly as an LDS member. One poster claimed to be a minister of a “Christian denomination”. Everything I posted he blasted as Satanic lies. It was unbelievably bitter. So I took one of his posts from a couple of months previous and reposted word for word without any changes under my name. He blasted his previous post as Satanic and full of lies. I then pointed out to the forum that he was criticizing his own post. He then gave what I considered a most interesting and classic response. He said that because I believed in a different Christ that the post now meant something very different and that Satan could quote scripture and when he did so what he did was Satanic and full of lies.

I have discovered that such prejudice and intolerance does not exist just between certain religious types but crosses into politics and other categories as well. Some individuals are so prejudice and intolerant that they cannot deal with reality and will stand on a clear day in the noon sun and declare it night and there is nothing that can be done about it. They will never see the light and the only hope for them is outside of anything any LDS can say or post. Sadly I believe that there are LDS that are just as bad in the reverse. Being right, in my mind, is not as important as being willing and able to listen to a different opinion and learn something from it.

The Traveler

Edited May 13, 2009 by Traveler

[mikbone]

So I took one of his posts from a couple of months previous and reposted word for word without any changes under my name. He blasted his previous post as Satanic and full of lies. I then pointed out to the forum that he was criticizing his own post.

LOL

Think im gonna keep an eye on you.

[Islander]

Intolerance is the "civil" weapon of satan. Lying and deceiving is a craft studied and perfected by many. The key to successful lying and deception is to first, weave it into known, verifiable truth; second legitimize the carrier by elevating his/her statute and social/political/economic standing and last discredit any and all potential credible opponents.

If you read the scriptures ALL the prophets ran a mock with the rulers, the lawyers and the learned. They were ALWAYS on the wrong side of God and it is so today, for the most part.

My grandmother loved the writings of Isaiah. She thought this prophet shed more light about the Savior, the future of Israel, the gentiles and the latter days than any other. Isaiah helped Hezekiah have faith as to petition the Lord to defend Israel from certain destruction at the hands of the Assyrians. What she did not know is that a few years later another king had him killed by cutting him with a wooden saw. That is the historical pattern.

[Guest]

I think a lot of the conflict stems from folks going into the discussion thinking they can change the others' minds (or WIN the debate).

This is not possible in gospel discussion where the point is to disprove the other... because, we all know anybody can interpret the Bible a thousand different ways. And that's why, you will rarely see me quote scripture. Because, a line of scripture standing on its own cannot support anything unless the precept is agreed upon. Line upon line, precept upon precept, remember? Quoting scriptures to somebody without the corroborating balance of the Book of Mormon in an effort to disprove the other is almost useless.

So, sometimes, I feel that ongoing arguments on this and that a scripture is doing nothing but stroke somebody's pride.

We cannot convert. We cannot change others. And just like Osment saying "I see dead people, walking around like regular people", all we can do is testify... And then pray that the Spirit will guide those who heard/read our testimonies and begin to see the dead people too.

[Dr T]

I can say that I loved that movie.

[talisyn]

Wow I never saw it that way. Great analogy!

Growing up in the church I don't have anything else to compare it to, but remember in the movie the flashes of color signifying a truth to Bruce Willis about his current state of being? I think RL is like that, sometimes we need to be more aware of the eternal truths that surround us day to day.

[Justice]

I think a lot of the conflict stems from folks going into the discussion thinking they can change the others' minds (or WIN the debate).

You make a very profound point. I think before the discussion moves too far past "hi" the parties should verbally agree that the *intention* for the discussion is to share beliefs and not *convert*. This is the only way that the next thing I'm going to suggect can happen.

To add even further to what you say, people often go into a discussion not seeking to understand the others view, even if they aren't looking to convert. If your only intention is to share your views, and not learn the views of others, the conversation is doomed before it even begins.

Good post, anatess.

[Traveler]

I think a lot of the conflict stems from folks going into the discussion thinking they can change the others' minds (or WIN the debate).

This is not possible in gospel discussion where the point is to disprove the other... because, we all know anybody can interpret the Bible a thousand different ways. And that's why, you will rarely see me quote scripture. Because, a line of scripture standing on its own cannot support anything unless the precept is agreed upon. Line upon line, precept upon precept, remember? Quoting scriptures to somebody without the corroborating balance of the Book of Mormon in an effort to disprove the other is almost useless.

So, sometimes, I feel that ongoing arguments on this and that a scripture is doing nothing but stroke somebody's pride.

We cannot convert. We cannot change others. And just like Osment saying "I see dead people, walking around like regular people", all we can do is testify... And then pray that the Spirit will guide those who heard/read our testimonies and begin to see the dead people too.

It is not so much what a person knows as far as correct doctrine that makes them a Christian but how they treat others – which I believe was the very point made by Jesus in the parable of the Good Samaritan.

I have yet to meet a kind diverse person that objects to the life styles of devout LDS.

The Traveler