Tattoos

[kpatrey]

I have a few questions about tattoos and the church. I was told it is more accepted for people in other countires to get them because it is a part of their culture? If tattoos are wrong in the eyes of the church, shouldn't they be wrong no matter where you live in the world? SO...I guess what I am trying to find out are there different rules because one might live in a part of the world where it is a part of their culture? Is it black and white or are we looking at a shade of grey? I hope this comes across more clearly than before.

Edited June 16, 2009 by kpatrey
Question was unclear to readers -

[beefche]

I have a few questions about tattoos and the church. Why is it frowned upon? Why is it okay for people in other countires to get them because it is a part of their culture? If tattoos are wrong in the eyes of the church, shouldn't they br wrong no matter where you live in the world? I have several and they each have significant meaning. I don't want my children to think I am a bad person for having them. I sat in their Primary once and the teacher was going on about all the things that are bad for us and of course that came up. My kids looked at me like, "Mom, how could you?" SO...I guess what I am trying to find out are there different rules because one might live in a part of the world where it is a part of their culture? Is it black and white or are we looking at a shade of grey? Also, your answer can't be the one scripture in the Bible that talks about tattoos because in that same sentence it talks about men having to wear their beards long....LOL

There was a talk in the RS broadcast a few years ago by Pres. Hinckley that discusses tattoos (I'm sure someone will link it).

But, I want to address the whole "judgement" that goes on in and out of the church. I cannot control what other people say and do. But I can control my own reactions and words. I do not judge others for any tattoos they currently have or plan on getting in the future. I don't like them, I think they are just not attractive. But that doesn't mean I think anyone who has/getting them is "bad."

If any of my kids were in Primary and were taught that getting tattoos were bad, then I would likely reinforce that teaching but explain (to their understanding depending on the age) that people who have them aren't bad and that we can't tell them they are wrong to have them. And tatoos are just one example.

My friend's son has a firm belief in right and wrong--and if anyone in the church doesn't conform to that, it distresses him (and he will let you know that you're wrong for going against what he thinks is right). When I stayed with them, I was flying from their house in Mexico to my home in Indiana on Fast Sunday. Whenever I fly, I cannot fast--I get very dehydrated and physically ill if I don't eat or drink while flying. When he saw me eating breakfast at his house, he let me know that I was wrong--it was Fast Sunday. He wouldn't listen to me--it didn't matter to him the reasons why and the fact that I'll fast another day. His mom is working with him to help him get over this self-righeous attitude.

The problem is I see so many members who do with with their pet "subjects." We are all in a learning phase--some are more advanced than others. But regardless of where we are on the spectrum, we need to be kind and loving.

[beefche]

Sorry, this is a sore spot for me--I do my share of judging others, but I really do try to not do so.

[Wingnut]

Teach your children self-respect. Teach them that their bodies are the creation of the Almighty. What a miraculous, wonderful, and beautiful thing is the human body.

As has been said here tonight, Paul, in writing to the Corinthians, declared: “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1 Cor. 3:16–17).

Now comes the craze of tattooing one’s body. I cannot understand why any young man—or young woman, for that matter—would wish to undergo the painful process of disfiguring the skin with various multicolored representations of people, animals, and various symbols. With tattoos, the process is permanent, unless there is another painful and costly undertaking to remove it. Fathers, caution your sons against having their bodies tattooed. They may resist your talk now, but the time will come when they will thank you. A tattoo is graffiti on the temple of the body.

Likewise the piercing of the body for multiple rings in the ears, in the nose, even in the tongue. Can they possibly think that is beautiful? It is a passing fancy, but its effects can be permanent. Some have gone to such extremes that the ring had to be removed by surgery. The First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve have declared that we discourage tattoos and also “the piercing of the body for other than medical purposes.” We do not, however, take any position “on the minimal piercing of the ears by women for one pair of earrings”—one pair.

Source: LDS.org - Ensign Article - “Great Shall Be the Peace of Thy Childrenâ€

I recently spoke to your mothers and your fathers. Among other things, I talked with them about tattoos.

What creation is more magnificent than the human body? What a wondrous thing it is as the crowning work of the Almighty.

Paul, in writing to the Corinthians, said: “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1 Cor. 3:16–17).

Did you ever think that your body is holy? You are a child of God. Your body is His creation. Would you disfigure that creation with portrayals of people, animals, and words painted into your skin?

I promise you that the time will come, if you have tattoos, that you will regret your actions. They cannot be washed off. They are permanent. Only by an expensive and painful process can they be removed. If you are tattooed, then probably for the remainder of your life you will carry it with you. I believe the time will come when it will be an embarrassment to you. Avoid it. We, as your Brethren who love you, plead with you not to become so disrespectful of the body which the Lord has given you.

Source: LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Prophet's Counsel and Prayer for Youth

Teach them to respect their bodies. The practice is growing among young people of tattooing and piercing their bodies. The time will come when they will regret it, but it will then be too late. The scriptures unequivocally declare:

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1 Cor. 3:16–17).

It is sad and regrettable that some young men and women have their bodies tattooed. What do they hope to gain by this painful process? Is there “anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy” (A of F 1:13) in having unseemly so-called art impregnated into the skin to be carried throughout life, all the way down to old age and death? They must be counseled to shun it. They must be warned to avoid it. The time will come that they will regret it but will have no escape from the constant reminder of their foolishness except through another costly and painful procedure.

I submit that it is an uncomely thing, and yet a common thing, to see young men with ears pierced for earrings, not for one pair only, but for several.

They have no respect for their appearance. Do they think it clever or attractive to so adorn themselves?

I submit it is not adornment. It is making ugly that which was attractive. Not only are ears pierced, but other parts of the body as well, even the tongue. It is absurd.

We—the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve—have taken the position, and I quote, that “the Church discourages tattoos. It also discourages the piercing of the body for other than medical purposes, although it takes no position on the minimal piercing of the ears by women for one pair of earrings.”

Source: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Your Greatest Challenge, Mother

Edited June 16, 2009 by Wingnut

[pam]

I personally don't like tattoos as well. It's just a personal thing with me. However, that being said...I don't think people who get them are bad either.

But I am always reminded of what is said by our Leaders about our bodies being temples and not to defile them.

There are many good members of the Church who have tattoos. Some done before they joined the Church and some afterwards. Having a tattoo will not deny you a recommend...will not keep you from the celestial kingdom.

[Wingnut]

Teach your children self-respect. Teach them that their bodies are the creation of the Almighty. What a miraculous, wonderful, and beautiful thing is the human body.

As has been said here tonight, Paul, in writing to the Corinthians, declared: “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1 Cor. 3:16–17).

Now comes the craze of tattooing one’s body. I cannot understand why any young man—or young woman, for that matter—would wish to undergo the painful process of disfiguring the skin with various multicolored representations of people, animals, and various symbols. With tattoos, the process is permanent, unless there is another painful and costly undertaking to remove it. Fathers, caution your sons against having their bodies tattooed. They may resist your talk now, but the time will come when they will thank you. A tattoo is graffiti on the temple of the body.

Likewise the piercing of the body for multiple rings in the ears, in the nose, even in the tongue. Can they possibly think that is beautiful? It is a passing fancy, but its effects can be permanent. Some have gone to such extremes that the ring had to be removed by surgery. The First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve have declared that we discourage tattoos and also “the piercing of the body for other than medical purposes.” We do not, however, take any position “on the minimal piercing of the ears by women for one pair of earrings”—one pair.

Source: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Great Shall Be the Peace of Thy Children

I recently spoke to your mothers and your fathers. Among other things, I talked with them about tattoos.

What creation is more magnificent than the human body? What a wondrous thing it is as the crowning work of the Almighty.

Paul, in writing to the Corinthians, said: “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1 Cor. 3:16–17).

Did you ever think that your body is holy? You are a child of God. Your body is His creation. Would you disfigure that creation with portrayals of people, animals, and words painted into your skin?

I promise you that the time will come, if you have tattoos, that you will regret your actions. They cannot be washed off. They are permanent. Only by an expensive and painful process can they be removed. If you are tattooed, then probably for the remainder of your life you will carry it with you. I believe the time will come when it will be an embarrassment to you. Avoid it. We, as your Brethren who love you, plead with you not to become so disrespectful of the body which the Lord has given you.

Source: LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Prophet's Counsel and Prayer for Youth

Teach them to respect their bodies. The practice is growing among young people of tattooing and piercing their bodies. The time will come when they will regret it, but it will then be too late. The scriptures unequivocally declare:

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1 Cor. 3:16–17).

It is sad and regrettable that some young men and women have their bodies tattooed. What do they hope to gain by this painful process? Is there “anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy” (A of F 1:13) in having unseemly so-called art impregnated into the skin to be carried throughout life, all the way down to old age and death? They must be counseled to shun it. They must be warned to avoid it. The time will come that they will regret it but will have no escape from the constant reminder of their foolishness except through another costly and painful procedure.

I submit that it is an uncomely thing, and yet a common thing, to see young men with ears pierced for earrings, not for one pair only, but for several.

They have no respect for their appearance. Do they think it clever or attractive to so adorn themselves?

I submit it is not adornment. It is making ugly that which was attractive. Not only are ears pierced, but other parts of the body as well, even the tongue. It is absurd.

We—the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve—have taken the position, and I quote, that “the Church discourages tattoos. It also discourages the piercing of the body for other than medical purposes, although it takes no position on the minimal piercing of the ears by women for one pair of earrings.”

Source: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Your Greatest Challenge, Mother

LDS.org - Topic Definition - Tattooing

[bytor2112]

A member of our Ward Bishopric has an immense tattoo covering his calf. He got it in the Navy....while a member of the church,it is the Physicians symbol or whatever. He is also one of the most spiritual men I know.

[Dravin]

Why is it frowned upon? Why is it okay for people in other countires to get them because it is a part of their culture? If tattoos are wrong in the eyes of the church, shouldn't they br wrong no matter where you live in the world?

Where are you getting this? I'm not saying it isn't true, I've just never heard of such an exception such as there is for say dress (Pacific Islanders and Lavalavas for example). As far as I know the church discourages tattoos regardless of where you live. Note, it discourages tattoos, it does not classify them as the unpardonable sin.

My kids looked at me like, "Mom, how could you?"

Tell them the truth. Assuming you didn't get these since you were a member (I seem to recall you being a recent convert, correct me if I'm wrong), or even if you did and just never were taught/understood, a simple explanation that you didn't always know these things should suffice. Same thing if say an old picture of you with a beer in hand showed up (as an example, I have no clue about how you live or lived). Depending on the age of the kids involved you might even want to explain 2 Nephi 9:25-26, to them. If not having known you shouldn't do something not even the Lord is going to hold it against you, why should you (or anyone else) hold it against you?

Heck, I'm not perfect and if my kids (when I have them) found out it'd be a prime teaching moment for repentance (and the atonement in general) and not judging unrighteous judgement.

[DigitalShadow]

But I am always reminded of what is said by our Leaders about our bodies being temples and not to defile them.

And just like LDS temples have ornate but meaningful decorations, some people choose to do the same with their own body.

[hordak]

IMO (not official doctrine) Tattoos and piercings are frowned upon due to the "rebellious nature" " associated with them. The church likes it members to portray a certain "squeaky clean" image. (and live it to) While tattoos don't make a person bad they aren't normally associated with Christianity. (It is changing however, a good Christian friend of mine (tats, piercings) started a rock band as a way of showing younger kids you can have fun/ look cool and still live a christian lifestyle. To show parents that mohawks don't equal drug use. "It's not all white shirts, ties and hymms" as he puts it.)

So it would be easier for a member with no tattoos to have a "missionary moment" in most cases.

Many claim it is about not defiling your temple however the church is silent (that i know of) on cosmetic surgery and in fact Utah has more plastic surgeons per person then any other state. Some think they are different but i see no difference in putting a foreign poison in the skin of the face to look and feel younger and putting a foreign ink in the skin to look and feel younger. Body modification, whether "rebellious" tattoos and piercing, or a nip and tuck are generally done for the same reason.

I should however disclose that i have had 7 extra holes in my body at one point, have about 10sq Inches of ink under my skin, and am married to a women with more tattoos then can be counted one hand so i "have a dog in the fight" so to speak.

I would also like to give "mad props" to Beefche and pam for their wisdom on how looks don't make one evil:hi:

Edited June 16, 2009 by hordak

[hordak]

Just to add for your viewing pleasure...

http://www.lds.net/forums/current-events/21149-interesting-blog-about-mormon-prophet-tattoos.html

[kpatrey]

Having a tattoo will not deny you a recommend...will not keep you from the celestial kingdom.[/QUOTE]

I find this information interesting since a male member of our church who previously held a TR was told that they would not give him another recommend if he finished his already started tattoo. He was a bit frustrated. I never asked about the outcome because I felt it was not my business.

[Wingnut]

I've told this story here before, but I'll tell it again. I knew a man in my mission whose background I can't remember exactly. He was either a convert to the Church or had gone through a period of heavy inactivity. He was tattooed all over both forearms, and he rode a motorcycle -- leather and all. One day, he rode to the temple. For safety and practicality reasons, he wore his leather jacket, chaps, and his riding boots on the way there. He brought dress clothes to change into prior to entering the temple and changing into his whites. When he arrived at the temple, he untied his bag, walked into the temple (in all his black leather) and used the restroom in the waiting area to change. When he can out, he was wearing dress pants, a tie, and a short-sleeved white shirt. Someone who had seen him come in and now also saw his tattoos asked him, "Are you sure you belong here?" His response to her was "Are you sure you do?"

[kpatrey]

Again, I think some of these threads take on a mind of their own. I think people tend to get riled up about the topic and sometimes miss what the question was. I was not necessarily asking if people liked them but why I have been told if people live in "xyz" country its a part of the culture and is more easily accepted. I apologize if I worded my question the wrong way.

Another question...don't we lose our earthly body when we die anyway and eventually receive a glorified one?? Just curious!

[Hemidakota]

I have a few questions about tattoos and the church. Why is it frowned upon? Why is it okay for people in other countires to get them because it is a part of their culture? If tattoos are wrong in the eyes of the church, shouldn't they be wrong no matter where you live in the world? I have several and they each have significant meaning. I don't want my children to think I am a bad person for having them. I sat in their Primary once and the teacher was going on about all the things that are bad for us and of course that came up. SO...I guess what I am trying to find out are there different rules because one might live in a part of the world where it is a part of their culture? Is it black and white or are we looking at a shade of grey?

LDS.org - Ensign Article - I Have a Question

[Wingnut]

...but why I have been told if people live in "xyz" country its a part of the culture and is more easily accepted.

I don't know. I've never heard this.

Another question...don't we lose our earthly body when we die anyway and eventually receive a glorified one?? Just curious!

So let's just disrespect it in the meantime, because who cares? We're not keeping it forever!

[Hemidakota]

I've told this story here before, but I'll tell it again. I knew a man in my mission whose background I can't remember exactly. He was either a convert to the Church or had gone through a period of heavy inactivity. He was tattooed all over both forearms, and he rode a motorcycle -- leather and all. One day, he rode to the temple. For safety and practicality reasons, he wore his leather jacket, chaps, and his riding boots on the way there. He brought dress clothes to change into prior to entering the temple and changing into his whites. When he arrived at the temple, he untied his bag, walked into the temple (in all his black leather) and used the restroom in the waiting area to change. When he can out, he was wearing dress pants, a tie, and a short-sleeved white shirt. Someone who had seen him come in and now also saw his tattoos asked him, "Are you sure you belong here?" His response to her was "Are you sure you do?"

Usually converts have the typical tattoos done prior in becoming a member of the church. I know my friend had several of them prior to joining the church. Yet, I can attest, he is closer to GOD than most members I have encountered. He was asked the same by another member at a meeting but he just smiled. After that, he just wore long sleeve shirts to meetings and temple work. Eventually, he had them removed and we all know the painful process required in removing such.

[kpatrey]

Where are you getting this? I'm not saying it isn't true, I've just never heard of such an exception such as there is for say dress (Pacific Islanders and Lavalavas for example). As far as I know the church discourages tattoos regardless of where you live. Note, it discourages tattoos, it does not classify them as the unpardonable sin.

One example given to me was members that lived in Samoa that have them and is a part of their culture and highly accepted. Again, this is what was told to me.

Tell them the truth. Assuming you didn't get these since you were a member (I seem to recall you being a recent convert, correct me if I'm wrong), or even if you did and just never were taught/understood, a simple explanation that you didn't always know these things should suffice. Same thing if say an old picture of you with a beer in hand showed up (as an example, I have no clue about how you live or lived). Depending on the age of the kids involved you might even want to explain 2 Nephi 9:25-26, to them. If not having known you shouldn't do something not even the Lord is going to hold it against you, why should you (or anyone else) hold it against you?

Problem is I don't see them as wrong. I got my last one a week before I was baptized and it was a symbol for forgiveness. It means a lot to me and I don't regret doing it. It is something that I get to see everyday and remember how important it is. Did I need to have it tattooed on my body in order to think about it, I guess the answer is yes. I can't say that I will never get another one, I guess it depends on the event in my life that prompts me to want to remember it for this earthly life.

[beefche]

Having a tattoo will not deny you a recommend...will not keep you from the celestial kingdom.[/QUOTE]

I find this information interesting since a male member of our church who previously held a TR was told that they would not give him another recommend if he finished his already started tattoo. He was a bit frustrated. I never asked about the outcome because I felt it was not my business.

Who told you this? The Bishop or Stake President issuing the recommend? Then they are completely in the wrong because any information in an interview is confidential. The one being denied the recommend? Then he is in the wrong because again this is confidential information and it is possible that he is being denied for other reasons he's not telling you. If you heard this through the grapevine, then take it for what it's worth--nothing.

I've been in situations where a person received confidential actions. The person decided to tell others of the action and the reasons behind it--except the reasons given where completely off base, untrue, and unrelated to the action. However, since I am held to confidence, I cannot correct the allegations.

[Hemidakota]

Another question...don't we lose our earthly body when we die anyway and eventually receive a glorified one?? Just curious!

Did not the D&C state, the differences between each state and what is received with bodies?

[Hemidakota]

Where are you getting this? I'm not saying it isn't true, I've just never heard of such an exception such as there is for say dress (Pacific Islanders and Lavalavas for example). As far as I know the church discourages tattoos regardless of where you live. Note, it discourages tattoos, it does not classify them as the unpardonable sin.

One example given to me was members that lived in Samoa that have them and is a part of their culture and highly accepted. Again, this is what was told to me.

Tell them the truth. Assuming you didn't get these since you were a member (I seem to recall you being a recent convert, correct me if I'm wrong), or even if you did and just never were taught/understood, a simple explanation that you didn't always know these things should suffice. Same thing if say an old picture of you with a beer in hand showed up (as an example, I have no clue about how you live or lived). Depending on the age of the kids involved you might even want to explain 2 Nephi 9:25-26, to them. If not having known you shouldn't do something not even the Lord is going to hold it against you, why should you (or anyone else) hold it against you?

Problem is I don't see them as wrong. I got my last one a week before I was baptized and it was a symbol for forgiveness. It means a lot to me and I don't regret doing it. It is something that I get to see everyday and remember how important it is. Did I need to have it tattooed on my body in order to think about it, I guess the answer is yes. I can't say that I will never get another one, I guess it depends on the event in my life that prompts me to want to remember it for this earthly life.

Living in a Samoan community area [North County- San Diego], many members of that culture do not have tattoos.

[beefche]

Problem is I don't see them as wrong. I got my last one a week before I was baptized and it was a symbol for forgiveness. It means a lot to me and I don't regret doing it. It is something that I get to see everyday and remember how important it is. Did I need to have it tattooed on my body in order to think about it, I guess the answer is yes. I can't say that I will never get another one, I guess it depends on the event in my life that prompts me to want to remember it for this earthly life

Then get tattoos. Don't worry so much about what other people think. If you are concerned about it being a source of make or breaking salvation, talk to your bishop. I'm sure he would encourage you to not get them, but I find it really difficult to believe that he would say you're doomed to hell because of them.

[kpatrey]

I think the fact someone actually said, "are you sure you belong here?" is terrible. It makes me sick to my stomach to think that others can be so judgemental. You would think they would have embraced him, regardless of what his skin looked like. This post actually makes me want to cry.

[kpatrey]

Then get tattoos. Don't worry so much about what other people think. If you are concerned about it being a source of make or breaking salvation, talk to your bishop. I'm sure he would encourage you to not get them, but I find it really difficult to believe that he would say you're doomed to hell because of them.

I am really having a hard time with this website. I am not asking permission from anyone about if I get them or not. I don't think it is going to send me to hell. I personally could care less what others think, that is how I have always been. I have to wonder does the majority of the people who post questions always get hammered down??? I have people who think I am getting a severe beating whenever I post something. I don't think people realize how their messages come across. Maybe re-reading is a good thing before posting?:o:o

So much for uplifting and encouraging.

[Dravin]

One example given to me was members that lived in Samoa that have them and is a part of their culture and highly accepted. Again, this is what was told to me.

I could see them being seen as less 'out there' in Samoa and thus people tend not to react to them in the same way as they would in the States as such tattoos are a part of the culture they grew up in but unless I see something from a General Authority saying culturally significant tattoos are acceptable and an exception to the council to not get tattoos I'm gonna remain skeptical on this and side with the council is to not get them, period (with the possible exception of medical ones relating to radiotherapy which are small dots for reference not pictures/words).

Problem is I don't see them as wrong. I got my last one a week before I was baptized and it was a symbol for forgiveness. It means a lot to me and I don't regret doing it. It is something that I get to see everyday and remember how important it is. Did I need to have it tattooed on my body in order to think about it, I guess the answer is yes. I can't say that I will never get another one, I guess it depends on the event in my life that prompts me to want to remember it for this earthly life.

Well in that case tell them you think the Primary Teacher and the General Authorities of the Church are wrong (the articles quoted by Wingnut are by President Hinckley), one shouldn't feel discouraged to get a tattoo. Or I suppose you can tell them they are correct, one should avoid tattoos but that you aren't sure you want to obey/follow their council, in which case you kids should be asking you why (though probably with a more respectful tone and not an accusatory one).

Edited June 16, 2009 by Dravin