How long before we take to the streets?

[boyando]

Everyone seems to be very excited and somewhat proud of the way that our fellow human beings from Iran are standing up for freedom. How long will it be, before we also take to the streets, in a search for a return to freedom?

As I have stated before, my daily prayers include praying for the success of President Obama. What a shame it would be, if the first President from African-American decent went down in history, as one of the most hated. Hated not because he was African-American, but because of his desire to replace freedom with government control.

Our President is not alone in his desire. Democrats and Republicans alike have for many years, been chipping away slowly at our freedoms, in the name of bettering our lives. But with President Obama, there does not seem to be a press core willing to point out what he is doing. Does this sound familiar to the people of Iran?

I know that with all facts being tossed out there, all the he said she said stuff, it can get very confusing. So I hope that you who believe that President Obama has not and can not do any thing wrong, will ponder this one of many examples of the loss of freedoms.

Were in the constitution, does it give the right for the government, to close one business, I.E. a car dealership, so another competitors company can buy the inventory from the closed company, below the cost from the factory.

We could argue all day, and get no were, trying to figure out, if this was a good or a bad business decision. That would just belay my point. We have in the past, had great freedoms and now that they are being taken away, the people of this great country will soon wake up, and take to the streets.

My question is how soon? And will I see you there?

Edited June 21, 2009 by boyando

[Dravin]

Were in the constitution, does it give the right for the government, to close one business, I.E. a car dealership, so another competitors company can buy the inventory from the closed company, below the cost from the factory.

Source?

I've heard of various car companies refusing to renew contracts* with licensed dealerships in an effort to save money and possibly thin the heard to allow the more successful ones to succeed. You don't want to discuss if such is a good business decision or not, which is fine (so I won't) , but all I've heard is the companies not renewing contracts which they are free to do. I've not heard of a single government forced closure of a dealership (ones caught doing illegal things don't really count for your complaint), which is not to say they couldn't have happened but I'm just not ware of it.

So basically to cut to the chase, can you provide a cite where you are getting the information that the government is coming around and shutting down dealerships?

*This is not the same as closing a dealer, you just don't get the special deal on X brand anymore and the marketing aspect Random Joe's Ford/Lincoln/Mercury and what not. You can still sell cars and as long as you can sell enough of them at a high enough profit you can keep your doors open.

[talisyn]

My fellow Americans and I did stand up for freedom and democracy and the American Way. Back in November when we voted Pres. Obama in.

[Aesa]

My fellow Americans and I did stand up for freedom and democracy and the American Way. Back in November when we voted Pres. Obama in.

You have never had a democracy, none of us have.

You did not vote President Obama in.

He was the most funded by the financial powers, and that is why he won.

The same goes for George Bush, John Howard, Kevin Rudd,.

And I'm happy to provide proof for that.

As long as you have the government owned by financial elements of society, you can -never- have a democracy.

Democracy is supposed to put people in power, not those using artificial methods of social operation (money) to make the decision for those with less power.

That's fascism.

Were in the constitution, does it give the right for the government, to close one business, I.E. a car dealership, so another competitors company can buy the inventory from the closed company, below the cost from the factory.

Are you talking about the Federal Reserve's new powers since Obama's "financial reform"? It actually is legal, it's just that it's unconstitutional because a government doesn't have the right to give that power to a corporation.

It's important to remember that the Federal Reserve is a private bank, and therefore is able to behave like one.

I assume that's what you're talking about, but maybe not.

There will be rioting on the streets when things no longer work for the masses. When their homes are being foreclosed en masse; fuel and groceries become unaffordable, etc,. When things start to smell of the 1930's, is when we will see a beginning of gravitation towards that.

And when people lose confidence in their elected leaders, that's the end of this system.

[FunkyTown]

Oh, I'm taking it to the streets and REPRESENTING. All those fancypants in Washington are afraid of the fancypants revolution:

[Aesa]

XD!

[drjme]

My fellow Americans and I did stand up for freedom and democracy and the American Way. Back in November when we voted Pres. Obama in.

Whats the difference between a republic and democracy and which one is the american way?

[FunkyTown]

Hahah. Thanks, Aesa.

I should make my viewpoint known: I always find it interesting that when civil rights are taken away, the overwhelming attitude is utter apathy, but when changes to the economy go on, someone dies.

It happened to Martin Luther King, who was assassinated only when he started to concentrate on economic redress rather than civil rights issues: (For a viewpoint on what he wanted, go to: Money and Values: Martin Luther King on Economic Justice )

Malcolm X (Who started arguing economic redress in his later years),

Gandhi (Who started fighting more towards a Village based economy, which I think is an interesting model) - Economic Ideals of Gandhi

Abraham Lincoln threatened southern prosperity, who argued that slavery was how the south competed with Northern companies.

-----

I find it interesting that people are pretty laissez faire about their own rights, such as the right to Habeas Corpus, but that when people suspect their economy of being threatened, they take to the streets.

Bread and circuses. The romans were right.

[bytor2112]

My fellow Americans and I did stand up for freedom and democracy and the American Way. Back in November when we voted Pres. Obama in.

and also the 58,000,000 million who didn't vote him in........

[DigitalShadow]

We could argue all day, and get no were, trying to figure out, if this was a good or a bad business decision. That would just belay my point. We have in the past, had great freedoms and now that they are being taken away, the people of this great country will soon wake up, and take to the streets.

What freedoms are we missing? Over the entire course of my life I have never noticed any varying freedoms or felt less than 100% free.

[Hemidakota]

As I have stated before, my daily prayers include praying for the success of President Obama. What a shame it would be, if the first President from African-American decent went down in history, as one of the most hated. Hated not because he was African-American, but because of his desire to replace freedom with government control.

My question is how soon? And will I see you there?

Depending on the outcome of his third and fourth year of his tenure but I can see the direction the country is heading right now and that is not hard to see the facts are startling as it was in the last two years of Bush term. Giving there were a few presidents I could cast them as the worse service rendered to this nation, he may well be added to the list.

Let me correct the term African-American to African-Arab decedent. His mother was what culture and his father was from what culture?

Edited June 22, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

Source?

I've heard of various car companies refusing to renew contracts* with licensed dealerships in an effort to save money and possibly thin the heard to allow the more successful ones to succeed. You don't want to discuss if such is a good business decision or not, which is fine (so I won't) , but all I've heard is the companies not renewing contracts which they are free to do. I've not heard of a single government forced closure of a dealership (ones caught doing illegal things don't really count for your complaint), which is not to say they couldn't have happened but I'm just not ware of it.

So basically to cut to the chase, can you provide a cite where you are getting the information that the government is coming around and shutting down dealerships?

*This is not the same as closing a dealer, you just don't get the special deal on X brand anymore and the marketing aspect Random Joe's Ford/Lincoln/Mercury and what not. You can still sell cars and as long as you can sell enough of them at a high enough profit you can keep your doors open.

It is part of the Federal Bankruptcy terms and acceptance of TARP money, not from the actual automotive manufactures with closures of plants and dealership. Bringing another instance of government heavy handed rule, even medium to large banks, which revealed no losses as to BofA and Citibank faced were told to take TARP money. This is a known fact in the industry, as there are misgiving trusts in having government look over the shoulder or telling them on to loan money.

Success of the industry is to allow them to make their own decision. Do not forget, even Toyota and Honda have taken Japanese TARP money to keep them afloat during this crisis.

[FunkyTown]

What freedoms are we missing? Over the entire course of my life I have never noticed any varying freedoms or felt less than 100% free.

You lost the right of Habeas Corpus under the Patriot Act.

That's just a fancy schmancy way of saying the government can take someone off the street and put them in a place where no human rights agencies are allowed to go and the government can keep you there for as long as the goverment wants. The caveat to that is that they have to suspect you of terrorism, but the government refuse to define what terrorism means.

So yes, you have lost rights: A very basic human right, in fact, that has been around since the 13th century. RIP Magna Carta.

[bytor2112]

You lost the right of Habeas Corpus under the Patriot Act.

That's just a fancy schmancy way of saying the government can take someone off the street and put them in a place where no human rights agencies are allowed to go and the government can keep you there for as long as the goverment wants. The caveat to that is that they have to suspect you of terrorism, but the government refuse to define what terrorism means.

So yes, you have lost rights: A very basic human right, in fact, that has been around since the 13th century. RIP Magna Carta.

Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during the war between the states and I am guessing that Roosevelt also with the Japanese interment camps.

[its_Chet]

I remember when congress was set to vote on the bailout, all I could think about was the part in Terminator 3 where the General is hesitating as he decides whether or not to enable Skynet. Just as in the movie series Skynet caused the end of civilization as we know it, I sensed that the bailout would in a somewhat similar way initate a sequence of events that would be the undoing of this country.

That was before I found out it was going to cost $3 trillion. All I knew was that the country was in a bad financial situation and our government proposed to remedy it by spending unimaginable amounts of money. The way I see it, that's like trying to keep the Titanic from sinking by shoving chunks of iceberg in the holes in the hull, except for the fact that I can trust the ice.

I am no financial expert, and I don't read the news all day long, but that's not the point. It wasn't what I knew that told me the bailout was a bad idea. It was what I sensed. Something told me it was a sign of the times, that I should heed an unspoken warning. I have since felt an intensified drive to get my food storage in order.

Some people I have talked to are optimistic about the situation, saying that they think we may be on the road to recovery. I cannot refute that, and I certainly haven't got the economic knowledge necessary to debate it, beyond the most fundamental principles of basic personal economics. But one thing I do know is that there are things in motion now that could possibly mean the end of civilization as we know it. If our economy continues to go south, this could be the end. I find it worthy to note that in these times of gowing peril, we have "comedians" pulling stunts in public for the purpose of shocking, offending, and pushing the boundaries of societal conventions farther in the direction of Satan and sin. This is a time for mass repentance, and instead we are seeing the exact opposite. Babylon is growing stronger. Sodom and Gomorrah are stretching their tentacles into every community, and even in the most conservative of communities, we are hearing the deceived calling for normalization of that which is abominable. Not merely tolerance, but normalization.

Now is the time to prepare every needful thing. Now is the time to prepare our lamps and gather oil for them, because the Bridegroom is coming, and He is considerably closer today than He was just a couple of years ago. The judgements of God are beginning to weigh more heavily upon us.

I'm not even 40 years old, but I feel I can say that I was born on another world, in another time, when I look around at the world today. I think it's too late to save this world. I think the day of burning is irrevocably approaching.

I don't expect I'll be demonstrating in the streets. We may be beyond that point now, or soon will be. Our government has already labeled people like me as suspected terrorists, just because of our political beleifs, status as a veteran, etc. It is a shameless propaganda stunt, and I doubt the media is going to hold the government accountable for it. Rather, I believe the media is complicit.

Rather than demonstrating in the streets, I think I'll be building my year's supply of food and water, and standing in holy places, being not moved.

[talisyn]

and also the 58,000,000 million who didn't vote him in........

And nobody died

[FunkyTown]

Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during the war between the states and I am guessing that Roosevelt also with the Japanese interment camps.

Yep. And the Japanese Concentration Camps were monstrous miscarriages of justice.

Article I, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states "The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it."

I don't see the US being invaded and I don't see this as a massive rebellion.

I agreed with the first use of it, disagreed with the second use of it, and the use of it now during a time period that is vague and indeterminate is ridiculous. When will terrorism no longer be a threat or a concern? When will habeas corpus be restored?

World War II had an end. The Civil War had an end. Who can sign the peace treaty in the war on terror? Who can end the bloodshed and restore order that will allow Habeas Corpus to be restored? Nobody. That part of the constitution is just so much garbage now.

[Dravin]

It is part of the Federal Bankruptcy terms and acceptance of TARP money, not from the actual automotive manufactures with closures of plants and dealership. Bringing another instance of government heavy handed rule, even medium to large banks, which revealed no losses as to BofA and Citibank faced were told to take TARP money. This is a known fact in the industry, as there are misgiving trusts in having government look over the shoulder or telling them on to loan money.

I'm still gonna need a citation that the government is forcing dealerships closed. I'm also not entirely sure of what you are trying to say.

A) Banks taking money were somehow forced to close dealerships (which they can't do, though I suppose they could demand payment of debt right now).

B) It was part of the bankruptcy and bailout terms for the auto companies to shape up (aka, no money unless you actually try to make a profit so nix the licenses).

C) It was part of the bankruptcy terms and completely and utterly random with no motivation such as trying to steer said companies out of bankruptcy (Its not going to affect your bottom line, but death to dealerships, kill the licenses).

D) Something entirely different.

Neither B nor C fit the bill (not even A really). Unless you are a company owned dealership no matter what pressure the government puts on an auto company they cannot shut you down. And banks don't have the power to shut you down, they can demand you pay them in full as per any loans you've taken out and not give you any wiggle room but that is not the government shutting you down.

[Elphaba]

Everyone seems to be very excited and somewhat proud of the way that our fellow human beings from Iran are standing up for freedom. How long will it be, before we also take to the streets, in a search for a return to freedom?

I have to wonder if you've been watching what's going on Iran, because it is really inappropriate to compare what's happening in Iran's streets to what you would like to see happen in America's streets.

No one is stopping you from taking to the streets in a peaceful protest. Millions of people feel exactly the same as you do. If you don't like what's happening, you arrange the protest.

Just know that you can take your beautiful daughter with you and protest in the streets without the horrific fear of her being shot in the chest right in front of you, while you watch blood gush out of her mouth and nose as she dies right before your eyes. Many mothers and fathers are wailing over their childrens' murders as we speak. This is not going to happen at your peaceful protest.

Additionally, the freedoms you believe you’ve lost are nothing compared to the regime run by fanatic Islamic mullahs. America is not a theocracy, but Iran is, and that is what the revolution in Iran is all about.

What a shame it would be, if the first President from African-American decent went down in history, as one of the most hated. Hated not because he was African-American, but because of his desire to replace freedom with government control

What does his being black have to do with anything? Is he supposed to be perform better than all previous presidents because he is black? If not, then why bring it up?

Let's try it my way:

What a shame it would be if President Obama went down in history as one of our most hated presidents because of his desire to replace freedom with government control.

See how that works with no gratuitous comments about his race.

Does this sound familiar to the people of Iran?

Again, I question whether you’re even aware of what’s going on in Iran.

Currently the state has taken over any communications systems, including television, radio and newspapers. Many of Iran’s reporters, who are trying to get the truth out, as well as some foreign journalists, are being arrested, and we hear some are even being tortured.

I assure you, you still have Fox News to watch to get all of the information you want to hear. The government is not going to take over Fox's news stations, nor is it going to jail or torture its pundits.

Comparing the media situation in Iran with the media situation in America is inappropriate rhetoric given the suffering occuring in Iran as we speak.

Elphaba

[boyando]

I'm still gonna need a citation that the government is forcing dealerships closed. I'm also not entirely sure of what you are trying to say.

A) Banks taking money were somehow forced to close dealerships (which they can't do, though I suppose they could demand payment of debt right now).

B) It was part of the bankruptcy and bailout terms for the auto companies to shape up (aka, no money unless you actually try to make a profit so nix the licenses).

C) It was part of the bankruptcy terms and completely and utterly random with no motivation such as trying to steer said companies out of bankruptcy (Its not going to affect your bottom line, but death to dealerships, kill the licenses).

D) Something entirely different.

Neither B nor C fit the bill (not even A really). Unless you are a company owned dealership no matter what pressure the government puts on an auto company they cannot shut you down. And banks don't have the power to shut you down, they can demand you pay them in full as per any loans you've taken out and not give you any wiggle room but that is not the government shutting you down.

In some ways, you are right.The government has not stated that they want to close dealerships, but revoke franchise rights to some dealerships.

What you don't seem to acknowledge is that in the letter to revoke these franchise rights, they were given two options. Sell the inventory that you currently have on hand, to another dealership, at less than what you payed for it or sell your inventory with out franchise rights and there for no warranty.

Neither option states that the government is shutting dealerships down but the result is the same. In fact, you could say that it is Chrysler and G.M. that are setting off this chain reaction, if you wanted to strech.

By the way, one reason that you don't hear to much about this is because of the gag order that is being put on all dealerships at this time, not allowing you to hear much.

I first head about how these dealerships were being closed on the Glen Beck show and wanted to make sure that it was not being exaggerated, so I talked to friends of mine in the auto industry, who worked for dealerships who were not closing, and only one would tell me what he know was going on. He/she (this person doesn't what to recognized) said that in the meeting that he/she attended, they were not suppose to talk about why they could sell at such a great price.

Hey, we all see what we want to see, but eventually,just like 10% unemployment, we all see the elephant in the room.

[Moksha]

... the people of this great country will soon wake up, and take to the streets.

My question is how soon? And will I see you there?

Next Friday at high noon. Will you be bringing a U-Haul packed with fertilizer and several 50 gallon drums of diesel fuel?

[Moksha]

I suppose I should utter that old liberal refrain, "Can't we all get along?". I mean we are a country founded on civil dialogue. I suspect people get too worked up when they are constantly bombarded with propaganda to which they agree. It blurs one's perspective on mutual respect.

Couldn't we take it to the streets by wearing loud ties with our white shirts and leave the U-Hauls to Moksha's fervid immagination?

:)

[Dravin]

I first head about how these dealerships were being closed on the Glen Beck show and wanted to make sure that it was not being exaggerated, so I talked to friends of mine in the auto industry, who worked for dealerships who were not closing, and only one would tell me what he know was going on. He/she (this person doesn't what to recognized) said that in the meeting that he/she attended, they were not suppose to talk about why they could sell at such a great price.

Nothing personal but that doesn't really stand up as a cite. You could be right, but until I see/hear more beyond an anecdote I'm gonna remain skeptical. Of course even if what you are saying is true as you've admitted the government is not closing down dealerships.

I'm not saying there is nothing of concern happening in this country, just I don't need to go borrowing anything :)

[farmer]

boyando, I don't know when or how but I will likely end up "In the streets". A true American HAS to stand his ground at some point. You may draw your line before me or I before you but rest assured it will come.

Right now it feels like that moment just before you KO some schmuck who likes to play bully. Things are tense and your weighing the options and the consequences.

When and if you "swing" make sure its for the right reasons and make darn sure its for the fences. Just remember the VAST majority do not have the sack to even so much as speak out in a manner that goes against the grain. You will be alone or in a VERY small minority. I'm good with it, just make sure you are to.

I have a couple friends who are LEO and thankfully they recognize the fact that in far to many cases their "Job" is conflicting with their moral standards and our freedom. Far to many do not recognize this. Just look at what happened in NOLA. Why there was not dead cops over that I will never know. That situation was so far over the line it boggles my mind that it even happened. But hey they were "just following orders", just"doing their job".

Good on you for at least thinking about this stuff. CARRY ON!

[FunkyTown]

So what is LEO, Farmer? I did a search on Google and they have no idea what you're talking about, either.

Also, can you explain what specifically is the line in the sand you're talking about? What is it that the government has done now, as opposed to over the past decade, that is different?

I'm hoping that you'll mention specific issues that can be addressed and fixed, but I suspect with some dread that asking this question is going to be an 'Obama will raise taxes' thread.

Edited June 24, 2009 by FunkyTown