What do you think of people like Fred Phelps?

[Maxel]

A few years ago the Westboro Baptist Church came to the town I lived in to protest at a soldier's funeral. I found a lengthy, in-depth article about them and stayed up all night reading it. The basics are (as I remember them):

-Fred Phelps (founder of the Church) is an extremely angry man. Abused as a child, he learned to dominate his "enemies" (i.e. "everyone") physically through boxing. He went to a seminary (forget which one) and then law school to become a lawyer. Since then, he's forced every one of his kids to become lawyers.

-Every member of his church is part of his family- either born into or married into. Most of his children don't leave because he abused them terribly when they were children (if I remember, only 3 out of his 10+ children left his church) and they're brainwashed into believing that if they leave his church they're going to hell (the ones who did leave even got nifty letters from Phelps sentencing them to hell).

-They know their rights- the reason they're all lawyers is so they can band together and sue anyone who infringes upon those rights and win.

-Before settling in Kansas, Phelps moved to Utah for a brief stint of Mormon-bashing. However, he left when he couldn't rile up the Mormons enough for his liking.

-Fred Phelps is the mastermind. His poor children and grandchildren are the victims of lives of physical and emotional abuse.

Those are the basics, as I remember them. I'll try to find the article I read and link it.

[john doe]

There's a special circle of hell reserved for Phelps and his followers.

But as an atheist you don't believe in hell. What gives?

[Guest Godless]

But as an atheist you don't believe in hell. What gives?

Lol, I was waiting for someone to notice the irony there. Let's just say that Phelps makes me want to believe in hell.

[pam]

But as an atheist you don't believe in hell. What gives?

I noticed it but decided to withhold my statements. I'm saving everything I might say to you for football season.

[Moksha]

Besides the blind hatred of the Phelps' clan, they are also part of their own law firm. What a double whammy!

[SortOfMormon]

He believes he and his member were chosen to be saved, and everyone is going to Hell, right?

Well, this is interesting. There is a Bible verse that says 'Ye believe not. Because ye are not of my sheep." Thats his proof there that what he says about God choosing people is true. But what does it mean?

[SortOfMormon]

What I mean is, what does the verse really mean? Whats he says or something else?

[SortOfMormon]

Also something about the elect in mentioned sometimes in the Bible. What does that mean?

[prisonchaplain]

Not his followers; they simply are being led around by the nose.they know not. He is the problem.:)

Not really. I've seen interviews with church members--mostly family members btw--and they are usually highly intelligent, though not highly discerning. Their websites are prolific with Bible verses and a logic that is both intensely thought out, and yet, again, not wise, and certainly not Spirit-led.

[MormonMema]

Fred Phelps is a poor excuse for a pastor, who abused his children, and hates everybody. He was a lawyer, but his explosive temper got him into so much trouble in the court room, he was eventually disbarred. Then, he found religion. His cult of a church (Westboro Baptist Church, by definition is a cult, and has no semblance to a real Baptist Church) has picketed the funerals of homosexuals, and the funerals of soldiers who died in Iraq. He and his group, mainly brainwashed members of his own family, and a few outsiders, carry signs that say God hates soldiers. God hates America. God hates fags. , etc. ad nauseum.

I watched a documentary on him and his group from Netflix, and it was really sad. His young grandchildren, young as 4 or 5, were talking to the reporter in the documentary, and talking about how they hated the gays, and the gays should all die and go to hell. When the reporter asked why, they said they didn't know why, they just did. That's what I mean by brainwashing. Their stupid parents actually brought their children to the protests! You saw infants and toddlers carrying hate signs! It was appalling!

They planned on picketing a funeral for a soldier here in AR, a year ago, but this state has a law against such conduct within a certain radius of a funeral. What is really funny, is that that lunatic group on one occasion picketed a funeral, and a patriotic motorcycle group surrounded them and revved their engines, drowning out the voices of the protestors.

[SortOfMormon]

His young grandchildren, young as 4 or 5, were talking to the reporter in the documentary, and talking about how they hated the gays, and the gays should all die and go to hell.

Wow. Jesus taught us to love one another, even our enemies. I'm sure he wasn't just talking about our own brethren.

[Faded]

Oh, and along with hating all military, they also hate religious groups such as Catholics and Jews. I wonder if Mormons made their list? Surprised we haven't seen them on Temple Square yet.

Yeah, they've taken their shots at "Mormonism".

Deseret News | Church group plans protest at Pres. Hinckley's funeral

"On February 2, 2008 the group picketed during the funeral of former LDS Church president Gordon B. Hinckley in Salt Lake City, Utah, displaying picket signs criticizing him for being a "lying false prophet" and "leading millions of people astray." The organization also criticized Hinckley for being too accepting of gay people, accusing him of having an "ambiguous voice" about homosexuality rather than taking a firm stand against it. Police had difficulty determining whether the demonstration met the guidelines of protected free speech. It was said at least one of the picket signs read, "Hinckley is in hell." "

Westboro Baptist Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wikipedia link also contains a summary of everything else they've protested, criticized or condemned to hell. To summarize, they hate EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING OTHER THAN THEMSELVES. Some of the things they denounce and protest are things they have in common with other Christian Churches. Most are things that no decent human being would ever do.

This group is a true embarrassment to all things Christian and indeed all things Baptist. One thing has always struck me as very curious: Can't the Baptist faiths/organization prohibit them from referring to themselves as "Baptists"? No doubt they'd continue anyways, but at least an official denunciation should be in order, right?

Edited July 8, 2009 by Faded

[SortOfMormon]

Also something about the elect in mentioned sometimes in the Bible. What does that mean?

What I mean is, what does the verse really mean? Whats he says or something else?

He believes he and his member were chosen to be saved, and everyone is going to Hell, right?

Well, this is interesting. There is a Bible verse that says 'Ye believe not. Because ye are not of my sheep." Thats his proof there that what he says about God choosing people is true. But what does it mean?

Can someone please explain these?

[SortOfMormon]

He believes he and his member were chosen to be saved, and everyone is going to Hell, right?

Well, this is interesting. There is a Bible verse that says 'Ye believe not. Because ye are not of my sheep." Thats his proof there that what he says about God choosing people is true. But what does it mean?

Also something about the elect in mentioned sometimes in the Bible. What does that mean?

Can someone please explain these?

[Maxel]

Can someone please explain these?

I'll offer my opinion, although it's late and I'm tired so it won't be backed up with scriptural support.

Christ has said that 'my sheep know my voice'- I take this to mean that those who would be his sheep (those who would humble themselves and submit to Christ's will) understand the doctrines of Christ's gospel when they hear them. Those who would follow Christ, know the "timbre of His voice", so to speak. The hard implication is that those who are not humble, who would not follow Christ's voice, don't understand because they cannot understand.

This kind of doctrine is easily abused by those who don't understand it. People like Phelps can claim that everyone else is a child of the devil using this doctrine and then hide their heads in the sand when it comes to the other weighty matters of the law (charity, tolerance, etc.).

[SortOfMormon]

Wow. Jesus taught us to love one another, even our enemies. I'm sure he wasn't just talking about our own brethren.

What I meant by this was that I don't think Jesus told us to only love our own members and hate everyone else. He said to LOVE OUR ENEMIES!!!

[Guest]

Wow. I finally experienced WBC picket first hand! They were in my neighborhood protesting infront of the Catholic Church. The really bad thing is they were closer to the Catholic School than the Church. It's lucky that not many kids are in school at this time.

They were holding up God Hates ___ signs. They had what looked to be 8 year old kids holding signs as well. They had signs that said Priests molests boys and all that garbage. It is abhorrent. Everybody passing by looked the other way, even to the point of just crossing the busy street and walking on the other side of the road.

I was in Orlando a few months back and there's a church there (not WBC, I'm sure, but some other church) holding signs in the middle of downtown saying repent all you sinners... and underneath it are words like, "Rock and Rollers", "Rappers", among the other stuff. It's not as abhorrent as the WBC signs but still, it's a turn-off. But then, my husband said, I wonder if Samuel the Lamanite did the exact same thing which is why he got thrown out of the city? That gave me a pause.

What's your thoughts on this?

[Guest Godless]

Wow. I finally experienced WBC picket first hand! They were in my neighborhood protesting infront of the Catholic Church. The really bad thing is they were closer to the Catholic School than the Church. It's lucky that not many kids are in school at this time.

They were holding up God Hates ___ signs. They had what looked to be 8 year old kids holding signs as well. They had signs that said Priests molests boys and all that garbage. It is abhorrent. Everybody passing by looked the other way, even to the point of just crossing the busy street and walking on the other side of the road.

I was in Orlando a few months back and there's a church there (not WBC, I'm sure, but some other church) holding signs in the middle of downtown saying repent all you sinners... and underneath it are words like, "Rock and Rollers", "Rappers", among the other stuff. It's not as abhorrent as the WBC signs but still, it's a turn-off. But then, my husband said, I wonder if Samuel the Lamanite did the exact same thing which is why he got thrown out of the city? That gave me a pause.

What's your thoughts on this?

That's a very interesting comparison. I think your husband may be onto something.

[FunkyTown]

I think there's nothing wrong with challenging someone on what you feel is Sin. Is rock and roll a sin? No, but songs that incite lust and hate against your brother are forms of sin. The second group, I would say are probably on to something.

Fred Phelps? Not so much.

[SortOfMormon]

How do we know he is not right though? I think this about every fundelmentalist.

[Galatians220]

I think he needs some serious Wall-to-Wall Counseling if you know what I mean.

I feel sorry for the members of his family and the members of his church. They're good, obedient, and sincere people but they just happened to that crap he's spewing out because of him.

[Guest Believer_1829]

Anyone heard of him?

He's passionate about his beliefs. Their song parodies are kind of funny. That's about it.

[Galatians220]

How do we know he is not right though? I think this about every fundelmentalist.

He's not a typical Christian fundamentalist. Your average Fundamentalist stresses on the fundamental doctrines of scripture such as the exclusivity of God, Jesus Christ, Salvation, and the Bible. He/she also is concerned about the morality of this country just as much as the Mormons do.

Christian fundamentalism is a reaction to the growing liberalism of the churches around them in the late 19th and early 20th century having abandoned the importance of the gospel and scripture teachings.

Billy Graham came to prominence and he is a fundamentalist because he believed in the Bible and the Gospel. He does not rail against this country, it's service members, etc; he simply preaches God's Love, Christ's Sacrifice, the free gift of eternal life and forgiveness of Sins as a result of Faith, that's all.