Divorce, depression, and the P word

[Banquo]

Quick background:

I got married a few months off my mission and then my wife left me two years later. Since that time I've been a wreck. I've been active in the church, never missing a meeting and serving faithfully. I don't live in an area where there are many single adults so I oftentimes feel like the freak divorced guy that is just there but not really part of any group. It's quite depressing to have always been faithful in the church and all of the sudden not feel that you are accepted anymore.

Anyway, my ex-wife was unfaithful, which is the reason why she left. I've been completely destroyed since then. It's been two years and I still haven't gotten over it, the wounds feel as fresh as if it all went down yesterday.

In the last few months I've begun to question the existence of God. How could someone as faithful as me be completely screwed over like this? I know people that have lived sin filled lives, mocking the church, and were able to create successful marriages and repent later on. Why is it that the people being complete idiots with the gospel are able to get this blessing of happiness in marriage while I haven't? I did nothing wrong, my stake pres even had to take me aside to tell me to stop beating myself up because my ex had major issues and it would have happened eventually.

But in the last few months I started to look at pornography. I've noticed that I used it as a way to numb my horrible feelings about life. It hasn't been a daily occurrence. It would happen a few times one week and then not again for a week or two. What I noticed is that every time I felt angry at God or depressed I would turn to pornography to numb the feelings.

I've decided that it's time to stop that behavior. My question is this: Is that something I need to confess to the bishop? It didn't involve anyone else but myself. It's following the classic patterns of addiction, which scared me and caused me to look more seriously at my behavior. But if I don't need any addiction recovery help, is it still necessary to talk to the bishop about it? It was my understanding that with porn the reason you talked to your bishop was to get help, not necessarily to confess a serious sin.

Thanks for the help.

[aclaire11]

Yes, I think you definitely need to talk to the Bishop about this. Talk about the pornography, and also discuss the problems that have led to the your use of it. Also, maybe you should ask him about single adult activities in the stake or branch, if by your "area" you meant the ward.

[dazed-and-confused]

Yes, i think it is something that you do need to talk about with your bishop. It's the addictive tendancies that are relavent here, not that porn is a minor thing. From what you've written, i can see that you are already starting the rationalisms common in addiction, specially the secret keeping and the shame. Best thing to do is to get hold of it before it gets worse because it gets much harder to deal with and the pain of addiction can become VERY severe. You will talk about it sooner or later, i pray that it is sooner.

[Guest]

I'd like to address your question on how come a faithful servant of God is not blessed with a happy marriage while sinful people have lasting marriages...

It is always bad to compare yourself with others because each and every one of us have different challenges. I will tell you though, that the ones who are the most faithful are the ones most challenged. You've led a fairly good life so far. It might have been time to shake you up and test your faithfulness. It seems like you failed the test. And that may have been the exact reason why this happened to you - to see if, in the time when you are the weakest, you would cling to God or forsake Him.

[Banquo]

@anatess

Thanks. That was some pretty powerful advice and actually helped me quite a bit.

@the other two posters...

I'm not trying to sound like a rebel or a sinner trying to justify his way out of a confession, but what is the point of it all? What is the point of confessing it to the Bishop? I can see talking to him for help for an addiction, but in reality he is going direct you to the LDS addiction recovery program. So if you stopped looking at it, what is the point of telling your Bishop about it? I just don't see the point in it all.

Also, of course it's shameful and secret, as are many sins. If you steal a candy bar from a store and feel ashamed and want to keep it a secret, does that mean you are a kleptomaniac? That's not the best example, but I think that most sin that people commit, especially when they know it's a sin, makes them feel ashamed and want to keep it from people but doesn't necessarily make them addicts.

[aspenmgy]

God wasn't to blame for your failed marriage- your wife was the one who did it. She used her agency, wrongfully, and it has negative effects on you.

Also...you need to see the Bishop about the pornography.

42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.

43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them. - Doctrine and Covenants 58

Contrast that with a few verses later...

60 Let that which has been bestowed upon Ziba Peterson be taken from him; and let him stand as a member in the church, and labor with his own hands, with the brethren, until he is sufficiently chastened for all his sins; for he confesseth them not, and he thinketh to hide them.

Don't pull a Ziba

[Banquo]

So where is the line drawn? What sins warrant a confession to an authority in the Church and which sins do not need any more confession other than in a prayer to Heavenly Father? Should you confess to your Bishop the impure thoughts you had? Should you confess cheating on a math test? I've found nothing so far that states that a confession to a Bishop is required for pornography. Some people feel the need to, and that's fine, I suppose. But should you go to your Bishop for one viewing? Or is there a set limit of how many times it can be viewed before you have to talk to him? You see what I'm saying?

The closest thing I've found was when Pres Hinkley urged priesthood holders to talk to their Bishops to free themselves from the chains of pornography. I don't think the word "chains" was unintentional. It implies addiction. I don't see anything in his words that implies that a confession to a Bishop is necessary for forgiveness, but it seems that he was implying that in order to overcome addiction it is imperative that you see your Bishop because he can direct you to the sources that will free you from the addiction.

Even President Monson said recently that if you are viewing pornography to "cease now" and "Seek the help you need to overcome and to change the direction of your life. Take the steps necessary to get back on the strait and narrow, and then stay there." Nobody has ever said that a Bishop confession is a necessary step for repentance, but is simply an outlet to seek help for an addiction.

If anyone has any sources where an authority in the Church has specifically said that the viewing of pornography requires a confession to the Bishop for full forgiveness, feel free to share.

[Rico]

I think you need to turn to your bishop when you need help. Since you are going back to view it time and again and are having a tough time putting a stop to it, I think a Bishop could be the help you need.

[glow_inthe_dark_girl]

So where is the line drawn? What sins warrant a confession to an authority in the Church and which sins do not need any more confession other than in a prayer to Heavenly Father? Should you confess to your Bishop the impure thoughts you had? Should you confess cheating on a math test? I've found nothing so far that states that a confession to a Bishop is required for pornography. Some people feel the need to, and that's fine, I suppose. But should you go to your Bishop for one viewing? Or is there a set limit of how many times it can be viewed before you have to talk to him? You see what I'm saying?

The closest thing I've found was when Pres Hinkley urged priesthood holders to talk to their Bishops to free themselves from the chains of pornography. I don't think the word "chains" was unintentional. It implies addiction. I don't see anything in his words that implies that a confession to a Bishop is necessary for forgiveness, but it seems that he was implying that in order to overcome addiction it is imperative that you see your Bishop because he can direct you to the sources that will free you from the addiction.

Even President Monson said recently that if you are viewing pornography to "cease now" and "Seek the help you need to overcome and to change the direction of your life. Take the steps necessary to get back on the strait and narrow, and then stay there." Nobody has ever said that a Bishop confession is a necessary step for repentance, but is simply an outlet to seek help for an addiction.

If anyone has any sources where an authority in the Church has specifically said that the viewing of pornography requires a confession to the Bishop for full forgiveness, feel free to share.

It's implied that pornography is a sin that needs to be confesed, there's no need to say it explicit because sins related to the law of chastity are supposed to be confesed to a bishop.. nobody can make you do it if you dont want to, you are not obligated to do so, but if you repented just do it and I asure you that you will feel better.. oh and I think there's a talk of elder Oaks that says its a sin that must be confessed but I couldnt find it..

[Banquo]

It's implied that pornography is a sin that needs to be confesed, there's no need to say it explicit because sins related to the law of chastity are supposed to be confesed to a bishop.. nobody can make you do it if you dont want to, you are not obligated to do so, but if you repented just do it and I asure you that you will feel better.. oh and I think there's a talk of elder Oaks that says its a sin that must be confessed but I couldnt find it..

Impure thoughts are also included in the law of chastity, but I'm not sure that you need to go to your Bishop every time you have one of those.

I know which talk you are referring to where Oaks talks about the temple rec interviews. The thing is he says if you are "viewing" pornography, not if you have ever viewed it. I'm sure people will jump on me and call me a justificatory sinner, but viewing to me seems more like a current problem as opposed to a problem from the past or a one time viewing.

If you are viewing pornography then you probably shouldn't be going to the temple, but if it's all in the past there is nothing that says you can't go and there is nothing that states that the actual confession of the viewing of pornography to a priesthood authority is the only path to forgiveness. If you are addicted and cannot stop, then yes, a Bishop can certainly help, but I'm still not convinced that if you viewed it and stopped that a confession is necessary.

[aspenmgy]

Are you embarrassed to talk to the Bishop about this? Why not set an appointment to speak with him, update him on how your life has been and mention the pornography. I'm assuming there was masturbation involved as well.

[Banquo]

Are you embarrassed to talk to the Bishop about this? Why not set an appointment to speak with him, update him on how your life has been and mention the pornography. I'm assuming there was masturbation involved as well.

Um, thanks, but your comment didn't really add to the conversation at hand. Can somebody give me some concrete evidence that it is required by the Lord Jesus Christ to confess the viewing of pornography to a Bishop to be forgiven of this sin?

I appreciate all of the wonderful, heart felt advice of going to hang out with the Bishop and talk about life, but that's really not what I'm looking for here.

[aspenmgy]

You are ignoring the solution. Just go to the Bishop and say, "hey, I've been looking at porn and spanking it....do I need to tell you about it or not?"

Problem solved.

[Banquo]

You are ignoring the solution. Just go to the Bishop and say, "hey, I've been looking at porn and spanking it....do I need to tell you about it or not?"

Problem solved.

LOL! Well, it seems that to me that "asking" the bishop if you need to tell him is exactly the same as telling him.

Maybe I should go into his office and tell him that I have a friend that wants looked at some porn a for a few months and choked his chicken in the process and wants to know if he needs to reveal the gory details to you or not. I bet he wouldn't suspect a thing.

Isn't there something strange about telling an old man about spanking it? I did it once when I was 16 and the Bishop laughed and told me that wasn't something that I needed to confess to a Bishop, most boys have done it, but I should stop if I wanted to have the spirit. It was a wonderful experience.

[aspenmgy]

LOL! Well, it seems that to me that "asking" the bishop if you need to tell him is exactly the same as telling him.

That was my point

Isn't there something strange about telling an old man about spanking it? I did it once when I was 16 and the Bishop laughed and told me that wasn't something that I needed to confess to a Bishop, most boys have done it, but I should stop if I wanted to have the spirit. It was a wonderful experience.

Well...you aren't 16 any more. You are endowed. Things have changed just a tiny bit :)

[Banquo]

That was my point

Well...you aren't 16 any more. You are endowed. Things have changed just a tiny bit :)

In other words there is nothing concrete that tells me what to do. You'd think if it was so simple a situation that the Prophet of God would come out and be crystal clear on the issue.

Also, I must have missed the masturbation part of the covenants.

[ztodd]

This looks like a good article -

LDS.org - New Era Article - President Kimball Speaks Out on Morality

[Just_A_Guy]

Banquo -

The CES manual to the D&C has an appendix about repentance and/or church discipline, and the approach it takes is "if you have to ask, then it's time to see the Bishop". I think it's pretty good advice. I also remember both President Hinckley and Elder Scott saying, at conference, that pornography and masturbation are both issues that should be taken to a bishop. Do a text search of the on-line Ensign editions if you don't believe me.

Pornography is especially dangerous because it's so easy to tell yourself "I can quit any time I want (I just don't want to yet)". I told myself that for over five years. Even if you can quit on your own, it's nice to have someone to be able to "return and report" to. If you don't confess, you're just denying yourself the extra support you could be getting.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Just_A_Guy

[Just_A_Guy]

President Monson's last conference address from the most recent session:

On the other hand, however—and extremely alarming—are the reports of the number of individuals who are utilizing the Internet for evil and degrading purposes, the viewing of pornography being the most prevalent of these purposes. My brothers and sisters, involvement in such will literally destroy the spirit. Be strong. Be clean. Avoid such degrading and destructive types of content at all costs—wherever they may be! I sound this warning to everyone, everywhere. I add—particularly to the young people—that this includes pornographic images transmitted via cell phones.

My beloved friends, under no circumstances allow yourselves to become trapped in the viewing of pornography, one of the most effective of Satan’s enticements. And if you have allowed yourself to become involved in this behavior, cease now. Seek the help you need to overcome and to change the direction of your life. Take the steps necessary to get back on the strait and narrow, and then stay there.

From an entire sermon on pornography, given by President Hinckely during the priesthood session of the October 2004 Conference:

If there be any within the sound of my voice who are doing so, then may you plead with the Lord out of the depths of your soul that He will remove from you the addiction which enslaves you. And may you have the courage to seek the loving guidance of your bishop and, if necessary, the counsel of caring professionals.

[Maya]

Please dont destroy your future possibilities with stupid porn. Think if you should meet HER tomorrow... how would you feel knowing that porn is not somethig ypou should do and that many good women dispise!

I met my DH and he was 50! And I was a bit younger. We got 2 wonderful boys. 20 years of marriage this May!

Yes life can sometimes seem unfair.... if you look at others.

It is funny how young adults everywhere are complaining that they cant find anyone!

Our youth is marrying across the countryborders as there are only a few LDS around. Keep looking. Take trips to other countries young adults happenings... DONT give up!

Or find a girl that will convert...:)

[aclaire11]

Even if you don't think you need to confess to be forgiven, I think you should at least talk to your Bishop and ask for help with the addiction. And maybe he can give you some advice.

[Misshalfway]

I think the thing that sticks out most in your post is the part about how the woundedness you feel is as if it just happened yesterday.

I know a little of how that can happen. It is crazy how time doesn't always heal wounds the way everyone says it should.

I am so very sorry your wife made the choices she did. There is nothing like the pain of betrayal and abandonment. And I understand too the temptation to question God. But remember that the responsibility of this pain belongs to your wife.

You can heal. You don't need porn or any other indulgence to help you feel better. Pain is hard to process and pass thru. Easier to numb it. But the numbing process prolongs the healing. So, maybe it is time for you to take steps to move on. Maybe seeing a therapist would help you process the pain to acceptance and forgiveness. Maybe this is a big of a reason to see the bishop as the sin piece. Healing is absolutely what the atonement is for and maybe the Bishop could give you counsel or blessing that might help you move in the direction of healing.

I also think that you need to give yourself the gift of accepting your life and life's events. Love yourself as the person you are now. Divorce was part of your history....part of what has given you valuable experience. Find a way to be grateful for your life. What happened to you was wrong, but you are now in a position to empathize and perhaps help others process their pain too. You are not alone. You do not have a scarlet A on your forehead. If others are uncomfortable around you, that is their issues. Maybe you can help them thru your own self love to know that it is ok to approach you. I guarantee that most people just don't know what to do or how to act and so they fumble the ball and retreat instead of engaging in love. It is ok. This road you are on is paved with great lessons and potential for growth. Give yourself to the process and let God transform your woundedness into tremendous capacity for love.

I do think that the porn thing has the mark of Satan all over it. I think he sees your vulnerability. He has taken down your wife and now he is coming after you. Isn't it lovely how he gets us all mad at God and others and then gives us permission to indulge? I hope you can see what is happening here and stop this cycle before it becomes inbedded in your behaviors and thinking. It is a very difficult road otherwise. And be aware that every time you indulge you will become weaker and weaker.

Go to your bishop. I get why you don't want to. Porn use is a shame based activity. Of course you are gonna want to handle it on your own. So much easier to hide this thing away and not look at it out in the light. But I guarantee to you that this is exactly what Satan wants you to think. This is part of the thinking that ensnares so many of the best LDS men. So do yourself a favor and beat Satan at his own game and go to the bishop. Shine the bright light of Christ's love all over this and every other wounded part of your heart. Let the Lord come and heal all of you and use the bishop as the Lord wants all of us to. It is a loving, honest, sincere, and merciful process. Don't let fear and shame and prideful justifications keep you from it.

Blessings and courage.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Misshalfway

[foreverafter]

Quick background:

I got married a few months off my mission and then my wife left me two years later. Since that time I've been a wreck. I've been active in the church, never missing a meeting and serving faithfully. I don't live in an area where there are many single adults so I oftentimes feel like the freak divorced guy that is just there but not really part of any group. It's quite depressing to have always been faithful in the church and all of the sudden not feel that you are accepted anymore.

Anyway, my ex-wife was unfaithful, which is the reason why she left. I've been completely destroyed since then. It's been two years and I still haven't gotten over it, the wounds feel as fresh as if it all went down yesterday.

I am really sorry to here that you are going through this. I know so many good men that this has happened to. And yes, most of them, especially if they truely love their wife, are in pain for years, that's just how true love feels. It can be very painful when not reciprocated. But I commend you on your love, that is rare. Most people don't feel so deeply. Adultery & Abandonment is one of the most painful things anyone can experience in life. In time though, the pain will lessen & you will be able to cope better & better.

"They say that Divorce is worse than death." Elder Faust, Ensign, Aug. 2007. 4-8.

Unfortunately often really wonderful people have a spouse who does this too them. Even Heavenly Father can't get in the way of her agency. But he can & will honor your marriage rights to her if you want to stay faithful to her & wait for her to return & repent, for someday she will, all spouses who do this must repent someday. And Women usually repent & return alot faster than men it seems. True Love is hard to resist for long. I know many people who are waiting with for their prodical spouse to come to their selves. They are following what Elder Scott said "To never give up on a spouse" who has chosen a path of wickedness. Find solace in the scriptures & the Prophets words of what they say about divorce & marriage. Learn how they don't allow one spouse to just abandon the other. Your wife will have to go through very painful repentance at some point & she will be so sorry & will want to make this all up to you someday. If you still want her back.

You are still married if you want to be & her leaving & divorcing you has no effect on your marriage statis. Brigham Young was clear on that. Read also what Joseph Fielding Smith says about it all. It's very comforting to hear how the Prophets back you when a spouse does goes off in adultery like this. Even if she remarries if will just be an adulterous affair until she repents, for she is still married to you. What Christ taught about this in the scriptures is still very true today. You hold all the power & still can retain your right to your wife in this life & the eternities if you want to stay worthy & faithful to her to someday enjoy being with her again.

"There is no ecclesiastical law to free a wife from a man to whom she has been sealed, if he honors his Priesthood." Discourses of Brigham Young, p.303.

Knowledge is power & comfort & gives one strength to hold on until their prayers can be answered. Heavenly Father feels your pain too & he wishes you didn't have to go through this & that she wasn't doing this to you. He will help you be strong & help her repent & return to you as soon as he can get her to.

If you still want your wife, repent from the porn & stay true to your covenants to her & love & serve her whenever you get the chance & someday all your pain & sacrifice will be hugely rewarded with everything you want.

"The line 'And they all lived happily ever after' is never written into the second act of a play. (This life being the 2nd act) That line belongs in the 3rd act, when the mysteries are solved & everything is put right." Elder Packer, Satellite broadcast, May 7, 1995, 1-2.

Some good reading is:

Joseph Fielding Smith, CR Apr. 1961

James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 474, 484.

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 17, June 28, 1874.

Richard G. Scott, CR Apr. 1988

Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation 4:160-161.

Joseph Fielding Smith, The Restoration of All Things, p. 254-255.

Pres. Hinckley, What God Hath Joined Together, CR Apr. 1991.

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:81-84.

Joseph F. Smith, CR Apr. 1917, 6-7.

Pres. Kimball, 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year, p.142.

Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 208

Elder Holland, How Do I Love You", BYU Devotional, Feb. 15, 2000.

Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 4, p. 196-200.

Alot of these Prophets talk about when a man abandons his wife, but a wife isn't allowed to abandon her faithful husband either. Be assured that what they say always goes both ways.

Edited July 6, 2009 by foreverafter

[glow_inthe_dark_girl]

Impure thoughts are also included in the law of chastity, but I'm not sure that you need to go to your Bishop every time you have one of those.

I know which talk you are referring to where Oaks talks about the temple rec interviews. The thing is he says if you are "viewing" pornography, not if you have ever viewed it. I'm sure people will jump on me and call me a justificatory sinner, but viewing to me seems more like a current problem as opposed to a problem from the past or a one time viewing.

If you are viewing pornography then you probably shouldn't be going to the temple, but if it's all in the past there is nothing that says you can't go and there is nothing that states that the actual confession of the viewing of pornography to a priesthood authority is the only path to forgiveness. If you are addicted and cannot stop, then yes, a Bishop can certainly help, but I'm still not convinced that if you viewed it and stopped that a confession is necessary.

one purpose of confession is to make you feel better to lift the burden if you dont feel you need it, and its not a constant thought you have with you (not porn thoughts I mean thinking that you did it and feel bad about it), well, may be you dont have to or u are not ready..

for the bad thoughts general authorities had speak about it, we dont have to go everytime we have them, what we are supposed to do is distract from them and try to do something else to prevent us from actually doing it

[StallionMcBeastly]

I'm sorry to hear about your ex - that's a rough situation.

I think you should make a strong effort to meet new women. Travel to wherever you have to to attend single adult activities. Meeting a new woman, and having a new love interest, in my opinion, would greatly help you overcome your feelings about your ex. You need someone new to focus on.