Maxel Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) I was worried about government-run health care, but after I saw this flow chart outlining every detail, I was put at ease.I like the efficiency! Keep it up, politicians![/sarcasm] Edited July 16, 2009 by Maxel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I can't wait to see what else gets taxed to pay for it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 There are so many powerful vested interests and their lobbyists, that the best of all health care systems seems unlikely for the US. For now, many will have to be content pretending our health care is better than other countries with a health care system.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Where's the ease in reading that flow chart though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Ronnie always said.....liberals love to say....hello...I am from the gov't and I am here to help.....:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Where's the ease in reading that flow chart though?There is no ease. That flow chart is the most convoluted thing I have ever seen.Hence the [/irony] tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I gotcha. I guess I didn't catch the irony in your OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploomf Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) QUOTE=Palerider;392444]Ronnie always said.....liberals love to say....hello...I am from the gov't and I am here to help.....:) And that's the scariest phrase in the english language. Hey look this is my 100th post. Whoohooo!!! Edited July 16, 2009 by ploomf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I gotcha. I guess I didn't catch the irony in your OP.That's because I'm tired and I should have used the [/sarcasm] tag instead.Anyway... Boo to convoluted government health care! Yay to privatized health care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanette Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Government health care: the efficiency of the Postal Service and the compassion of the IRS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyando Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 There are so many powerful vested interests and their lobbyists, that the best of all health care systems seems unlikely for the US. For now, many will have to be content pretending our health care is better than other countries with a health care system..I tried to come up with a compassionate way to ask you, and could not. So I will just come out and say it. Are you for real? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalShadow Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 If it is a chart for the Democrats' Health Care Plan, why was it made by republicans? Could it be that they purposely overcomplicated the flow chart and made it convoluted to give you the immediate impression it was bad? Nah, politicians would never do that. [/sarcasm] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I tried to come up with a compassionate way to ask you, and could not. So I will just come out and say it. Are you for real? I realize we got off on the wrong foot, but I am a big fan of Elphaba. For that reason I wish we could be at peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 What really makes me scratch my head is that there are loads of Americans that actually WANT government healthcare. I would think, after seeing the craziness of the usps versus fedex/ups, public school system versus private schools, social security system versus personal investments, medicare versus private health care, plus the present "budget defecits" that are causing state and federal governments to cut out vital government functions (taking out music and physical education from public schools, etc, increasing age requirements for social security benefits, etc.), Americans would be very worried about government-run anything, especially something as vital as personal healthcare! Is it because Americans are too lazy/spoiled/use-your-own-adjective-here to manage their own personal lives that not only do they think somebody else should manage it for them, but that they are entitled to not have to worry about it even if it means a loss of free agency? Or is that class warfare has festered so much so that the people are quick to align themselves as the "have-nots" who are entitled to the earnings of the "haves" so that they will jump at every opportunity to grab "benefits" from the government who "taxes the haves" because they feel entitled to "equality"? Or is it that Americans are armchair compassionists who cries out against the plight of the uninsured and demands justice as long as it comes out of somebody else's pockets? Or is it that Americans are enlightened that they feel ready for the law of consecration even if it has been proved even by such a prophet as Joseph Smith that it is not possible as long as greed and self-aggrandizement still exists in a population? Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Or is that class warfare has festered so much so that the people are quick to align themselves as the "have-nots" who are entitled to the earnings of the "haves" so that they will jump at every opportunity to grab "benefits" from the government who "taxes the haves" because they feel entitled to "equality"?I think this sums it up fairly well. With all of the technology and resources that we have at our disposal, there is absolutely no reason why a single US citizen, regardless of income, should be without health care. Sure, a government-run system is probably going to suck. But if I were uninsured, I'd prefer a crappy health care plan over none at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I think this sums it up fairly well. With all of the technology and resources that we have at our disposal, there is absolutely no reason why a single US citizen, regardless of income, should be without health care. Sure, a government-run system is probably going to suck. But if I were uninsured, I'd prefer a crappy health care plan over none at all.And why would you be uninsured?By the way, just because one is uninsured doesn't mean they don't have access to healthcare even in today's system. For several years before I had children, I CHOSE to be uninsured because it was cheaper for me to maintain my health myself rather than pay monthly premiums to an insurance provider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I think this sums it up fairly well. With all of the technology and resources that we have at our disposal, there is absolutely no reason why a single US citizen, regardless of income, should be without health care. What about the government being broke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I think this sums it up fairly well. With all of the technology and resources that we have at our disposal, there is absolutely no reason why a single US citizen, regardless of income, should be without health care. Sure, a government-run system is probably going to suck. But if I were uninsured, I'd prefer a crappy health care plan over none at all.Without health care? You no doubt mean health insurance? Does any one REALLY know what the plan entails? Will everyone be covered? What is included in the coverage? What is excluded? How much will it cost? What will happen to private insurers? How will it affect the economy, because I can't see how health insurers will stay in business. Will their be health care rationing? Who will decide difficult, potentially life or death treatment decisions....the government? Very scary. Details....we need specific details. Their must be a better way to reduce the cost of health insurance and open it up to those with pre-existing conditions than turning it over to the government? Heaven forbid the government would consider eliminating unnecessary programs and stop giving money to foreign countries, rather than just seeking to TAX the devil of the wealthiest among us....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 What about the government being broke?I have come to the realization that some in this country (not referring to Godless) either don't understand or don't care. Either way, this way of thinking will have dire consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Without health care? You no doubt mean health insurance? Does any one REALLY know what the plan entails? Will everyone be covered? What is included in the coverage? What is excluded? How much will it cost? What will happen to private insurers? How will it affect the economy, because I can't see how health insurers will stay in business. Will their be health care rationing? Who will decide difficult, potentially life or death treatment decisions....the government? Very scary. Details....we need specific details.Those are all very important questions and I agree that they need answers. This reform is going to involve a very long and difficult process, but I see no reason why we can't give it a try. I, for one, think it'd be nice to have an alternative to the expensive, competition-driven system that we currently rely on. As for the cost issue that Maxel brought up, it's a big issue. I won't lie, I don't think that this is a good time to be focusing on health care reform. As much as I'd love to see these reforms happen, our economic situation needs to be fixed first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 What really makes me scratch my head is that there are loads of Americans that actually WANT government healthcare...... You need to pay more close attention. There are basically two groups of Americans that want government health care. The first group is those that think they will get the health care for free - that they will not have to pay for it. The second group are the politicians (and some others) that know (or at least believe for now) that they will never have to use it. Those that are pushing for government involvement in health care are betting their political careers that the majority of voters (including those registered by Acorn) are the majority. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Those are all very important questions and I agree that they need answers. This reform is going to involve a very long and difficult process, but I see no reason why we can't give it a try. I, for one, think it'd be nice to have an alternative to the expensive, competition-driven system that we currently rely on. I'll give you one reason...Look at your public school system. It is government-run. They gave it a try and now they can't get rid of it, nor make any improvement of it without making it more of a spaghetti system (No Child Left Behind leaves a lot to be desired and it was a very good try at reforming a broken system).It behooves me to point out that the main reason why these things don't work is because it eliminates competition. Competition is the biggest contribution to improved quality. You can only reduce the cost of something so much to remain competitive. The next thing is to actually improve QUALITY to remain competitive. Why would Main Street High School try to improve the quality of their education when it doesn't matter? Students are still going to HAVE TO GO THERE because they are not permitted to go anywhere else without incurring an additional cost/penalty? Why would they try to acquire the best teachers or the best administrators or improve on their system? You say, the parents can complain, what-have-you... yeah right. All the school has to do is appeal to the federal government and it wouldn't matter one iota what the parents think! The only way a parent can fight against a bad school is to MOVE their residence elsewhere!Now, why do you think a voucher system for schools will never see the light of day? Because, it brings competition back to the ballgame and it will be very obvious then that the public schools will definitely lose funding because they will lose students to the competition. The government solution, is of course, not to improve quality to remain competitive, but to just go ahead and eliminate competition altogether.Which is kinda funny because the government tried their very best to put Microsoft on the wringer for anti-trust (elimination of competition). So, I guess it's bad unless the government is the one establishing the monopoly, then it's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 P.S. If anybody is interested, here's the bill as of today. All 1018 pages of it.By the way, check out page 935... if the bill is passed, the government can now permanently close McDonald's because it is a threat to national health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 What really makes me scratch my head is that there are loads of Americans that actually WANT government healthcare. These people do not realize the advantages of being without adequate health care. Makes you wonder what other frivolous reasons they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I'll give you one reason...Look at your public school system. It is government-run. They gave it a try and now they can't get rid of it, nor make any improvement of it without making it more of a spaghetti system (No Child Left Behind leaves a lot to be desired and it was a very good try at reforming a broken system).It behooves me to point out that the main reason why these things don't work is because it eliminates competition. Competition is the biggest contribution to improved quality. You can only reduce the cost of something so much to remain competitive. The next thing is to actually improve QUALITY to remain competitive. Why would Main Street High School try to improve the quality of their education when it doesn't matter? Students are still going to HAVE TO GO THERE because they are not permitted to go anywhere else without incurring an additional cost/penalty? Why would they try to acquire the best teachers or the best administrators or improve on their system? You say, the parents can complain, what-have-you... yeah right. All the school has to do is appeal to the federal government and it wouldn't matter one iota what the parents think! The only way a parent can fight against a bad school is to MOVE their residence elsewhere!Now, why do you think a voucher system for schools will never see the light of day? Because, it brings competition back to the ballgame and it will be very obvious then that the public schools will definitely lose funding because they will lose students to the competition. The government solution, is of course, not to improve quality to remain competitive, but to just go ahead and eliminate competition altogether.Which is kinda funny because the government tried their very best to put Microsoft on the wringer for anti-trust (elimination of competition). So, I guess it's bad unless the government is the one establishing the monopoly, then it's good.It may not be an ideal education, but it's still a free education. Do you have any idea how many uneducated children we would have if we didn't have free education? I agree that massive education reforms are needed (again though, fix the economy first), but ultimately I'd rather have a struggling system than none at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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