My pastor from Omaha

[mlbrowninwa]

Hi all. Was just on my facebook account and noticed that the pastor at my old church from Omaha, NE had posted what his sermon for this Sunday will be about. He is comparing Methodist and Mormons. From his post:

finishing my sermon on Methodism and Mormonism: similarities, differences, how our beliefs apply to our lives.

Found that to be very interesting that he was doing that as his subject. He is a great guy and i posted back that I would be looking forward to hearing it. If anyone would be interested in hearing it, i can post a link for the podcast once he gets it posted. And speaking of facebook, i'm always looking for more friends.

Edited July 17, 2009 by mlbrowninwa

[beefche]

Hi all. Was just on my facebook account and noticed that the pastor at my old church from Omaha, NE had posted what his sermon for this Sunday will be about. He is comparing Methodist and Mormons. From his post:

finishing my sermon on Methodism and Mormonism: similarities, differences, how our beliefs apply to our lives.

Found that to be very interesting that he was doing that as his subject. He is a great guy and i posted back that I would be looking forward to hearing it. If anyone would be interested in hearing it, i can post a link for the podcast once he gets it posted. And speaking of facebook, i'm always looking for more friends.

Does he know you are now Mormon?

And are you collecting friends on FB as some people? I have a friend who has over 1500 friends...I think she's in a contest or something...cause who really has that many friends????

[mlbrowninwa]

I have not talked to him about it, but I'm sure he knows. All of my family still talk to him as well, so may have picked it up that way, or may have seen that i changed it in facebook. And as far as the friends go, no contest here. Just realized that all my friends are people I went to high school with, and that's been quite a while back, lol.

[mlbrowninwa]

He has posted some of his notes for the sermon which i have been reading. I am still looking forward to hearing his sermon, but the notes are the same old things we've all heard and answered a thousand times. Title is "Nine Things I Would Say to a Mormon". I just might send him some answers that maybe he could use as well.

[pam]

Hey I'd be willing to have you as a friend on facebook. The more places I can razz you about football the better. lol

[bytebear]

Do you feel he represented the LDS church fairly? It sounds like if he is saying "things we've all heard and answered a thousand times" I would think the answer is no. But he has an agenda, and that is generally to distrust the missionaries and LDS followers and trust him instead. I find that sad and a little unchristian.

[mlbrowninwa]

Here is one of the notes:

.The Book of Mormon is much different than the Christian Bible.

With the exception of Brigham Young University, there is no institution of higher learning in the United States that tries to substantiate or support the Book of Mormon.

Joseph Smith used the King James Version of the Bible—not the original Hebrew and Greek—to write the “Inspired Version of the Bible.” He added (including a verse that predicted his own coming) and subtracted thousands of verses.

And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book. –Revelation 22:18-19 (NLT)

The quote from Revelation has been gone over many, many times. And as far as the versions of Bibles go, how many different versions are there? Every new "version" is someones translation of the original Hebrew or Greek, right? So i have a hard time seeing why it matters if Joseph Smith tried. And wasn't it Martin Luther that wanted to do away with entire books of the NT?

[mlbrowninwa]

Do you feel he represented the LDS church fairly? It sounds like if he is saying "things we've all heard and answered a thousand times" I would think the answer is no. But he has an agenda, and that is generally to distrust the missionaries and LDS followers and trust him instead. I find that sad and a little unchristian.

He has a lot of good things to say as well in relation to our morals and family values.

Edited July 17, 2009 by mlbrowninwa
spelling as usual

[pam]

I guess I just don't understand why a sermon would be all about the differences between two religions. It's not like someone is assigned a talk in Sacrament meeting to discuss the differences between Lutheran and Seventh Day Adventist. To what purpose does it serve?

[mlbrowninwa]

Not really sure Pam. I think I'm going to send him an email tonight and ask him where this idea came from. Might even give him some answers to some of the questions/statements he has in his notes.

[talisyn]

Here is one of the notes:

.The Book of Mormon is much different than the Christian Bible.

With the exception of Brigham Young University, there is no institution of higher learning in the United States that tries to substantiate or support the Book of Mormon.

Joseph Smith used the King James Version of the Bible—not the original Hebrew and Greek—to write the “Inspired Version of the Bible.” He added (including a verse that predicted his own coming) and subtracted thousands of verses.

And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book. –Revelation 22:18-19 (NLT)

The quote from Revelation has been gone over many, many times. And as far as the versions of Bibles go, how many different versions are there? Every new "version" is someones translation of the original Hebrew or Greek, right? So i have a hard time seeing why it matters if Joseph Smith tried. And wasn't it Martin Luther that wanted to do away with entire books of the NT?

I hope all goes well, and you don't feel like this sermon was directed solely towards you...but then again that would show how special you are, not many people have sermons written for them

Pray a lot about this, if you get the feeling you shouldn't go then don't-we have the gift of the Holy Ghost for a reason

[mlbrowninwa]

I don't think it is directed at me. There is a large LDS presence in the area there in Omaha, so I would say that is more the reason or something that has popped up there. I will not be attending for this, but will be listening to the podcast that he post weekly. I'm a long way from him right now. However I have thought about it all afternoon and have decided to email him tonight and let him know how happy I am being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[mlbrowninwa]

Hi all. Just an update. I did send my former pastor a quick email Friday night and received a nice responce. I am going to leave the link here to his podcast if anyone would be interested in listening too it. One thing that I found to be kind of off in left field is that he seems to have the idea that the Book of Mormon is a translation of the Bible. I may have misunderstood what he said, but the note I posted previous in this tread seems along the same line.

I listened to his sermon before i went to church today and found it very interesting that one of the talks was our responsibility to show people the light of our church. It was also brought up in Elders Quorum that some people don't think we believe in Jesus or the Bible. Here's the link

Methodism and Mormonism

Next week he plans a sermon about the same type of sermon based on the Catholics.

[NeuroTypical]

I wonder - will he be inviting any mormons to his sermon? Did he run his 9 things past a couple first, to see if they had anything to say about it?

"9 things I would say to a Mormon, hoping that none of them actually heard me, and refusing to discuss anything with them if they did."

Standard fare.

LM

[Prodigal_Son]

I guess I just don't understand why a sermon would be all about the differences between two religions. It's not like someone is assigned a talk in Sacrament meeting to discuss the differences between Lutheran and Seventh Day Adventist. To what purpose does it serve?

When you're not SURE you're right, it helps to poke holes in the beliefs of "the competition".

[rayhale]

If I wanted to discuss the Baptist faith I would have a Baptist preacher there to discuss it, NOT me. As a few other posts have noted, a preacher of one faith CAN NOT talk about another faith WITHOUT being bias.

[bytebear]

Here is one of the notes:

.The Book of Mormon is much different than the Christian Bible.

With the exception of Brigham Young University, there is no institution of higher learning in the United States that tries to substantiate or support the Book of Mormon.

I don't know any secular university that tries to substantiate the claims of the Bible. For example, is there any real scientific evidence that Noah's ark existed? Was Genesis really written by Abraham? Did Moses even exist? Did Jesus? Do we have any institution outside of Christianity trying to prove these beliefs?

[mlbrowninwa]

Well I have left it with him that I would be more than happy to talk on his nine points if he would like. And from being part of that church for a time, I can also say that they are doing a good work and bring many people to know Jesus. I told him in my email, that I hope at some point that we can stop concentrating on our differences and start looking at what unites us.

[rameumptom]

Here is one of the notes:

.The Book of Mormon is much different than the Christian Bible.

With the exception of Brigham Young University, there is no institution of higher learning in the United States that tries to substantiate or support the Book of Mormon.

Tell him that there are several universities now that have religious chairs in Mormonism, including Claremont Graduate University in California.

Joseph Smith used the King James Version of the Bible—not the original Hebrew and Greek—to write the “Inspired Version of the Bible.” He added (including a verse that predicted his own coming) and subtracted thousands of verses.

This is because Joseph was not doing a "normal" translation. Rather he was adding and changing via revelation, meaning he didn't need the original documents. He did not subtract thousands of verses. He DID change many, and added many not in any ancient Greek/Hebrew texts of his day. His writings ended up being more of a Midrash, than an actual translation. This was a very common thing done anciently, and many books in the Dead Sea Scrolls are done very similarly to what Joseph did in his Bible "translation".

Among the additions made to the Bible is the Book of Moses, which includes information on Enoch. One event has him going to a land called Mahujah, where he is questioned by a man named Mahijah. This story is found no where else, except in the Dead Sea Scrolls Book of Enoch, where Enoch is questioned by a man named Mahujah! This means that either Joseph had access to ancient texts that no one else had access to (until their discovery in 1947), or he received it by revelation.

And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book. –Revelation 22:18-19 (NLT)

One question you can ask him, is does this also include translations into other languages? Anytime you translate something, information is lost. So an English translation cannot ever have the exact words of the prophecy written originally in Greek. Also, man cannot change the words of the prophecy, but God certainly can, as he did in the Bible many times (ended animal sacrifice and circumcision; opened the gospel door to the Gentiles, etc). If Joseph was given the changes via revelation, then it was God making the changes.

The quote from Revelation has been gone over many, many times. And as far as the versions of Bibles go, how many different versions are there? Every new "version" is someones translation of the original Hebrew or Greek, right? So i have a hard time seeing why it matters if Joseph Smith tried. And wasn't it Martin Luther that wanted to do away with entire books of the NT?

Yes, Martin Luther did question many things written therein. Also, when the NT was put together, many books that were considered sacred were tossed out by St Jerome. This included the Book of Enoch, even though it is quoted 39 times in the Bible! Why is it not in the Bible?

And what do we do with the Dead Sea Scrolls? Almost all the OT is there, but also many other books considered sacred by the Essenes. Should they not have a spot in the Bible, also? Or are we set to just the books organized by Hillel and the rabbis of 70 AD?

Which prophets or apostles were involved in prayerfully selecting the books of the Bible? (answer: None). Why were books tossed out? A variety of reasons, some political. In fact, St Jerome was going to toss out Hebrews and Revelation, except that the Western Church insisted they stay in the Bible, and so political decisions affected it all.