Signs of the Times - A List

[Jasmin]

I'll ask a 2nd time...

This is supposed to be a list of WHAT times?

Is it supposed to be a list of things that are to occur before some future event?

Are you trying to be controversial? Is that why no one is answering you?

As I understand, from a purely JW background the signs of the times are the signs of the end times which precede the second coming of christ. According to this article I am semi-right:

Signs of the Times - Mormonism, The Mormon Church, Beliefs, & Religion - MormonWiki

Am I right on?

[Seanette]

Appears to me you are, Jasmin.

[Hemidakota]

Jasmin, I would assume as you stated, prior to the Savior's return. I am sure there are many books out on there that can shed further light with references.

[Hemidakota]

Also, how do we know when the spirit will cease to strive with the wicked? At what point does the Holy Ghost give up?

To answer the other question with names: [seventies]

Apostle Russell M. Nelson

Seventies:

Elder Dennis B. Neuenschwander

Elder Bruce D. Porter

Elder Paul B. Pieper

Location: Algeria; Bahrain; Cape Verde; Egypt; Iran; Iraq; Israel; Jordan; Kuwait; Lebanon; Libya; Morocco; Oman; Qatar; Saudi Arabia; Syria; Tunisia; United Arab Emerites; Yemen; Gaza Strip; West Bank

At what point did the the Holy Ghost stop striving with the Nephites?

[ruthiechan]

Are you trying to be controversial? Is that why no one is answering you?

As I understand, from a purely JW background the signs of the times are the signs of the end times which precede the second coming of christ. According to this article I am semi-right:

Signs of the Times - Mormonism, The Mormon Church, Beliefs, & Religion - MormonWiki

Am I right on?

Yes, you are spot on.

Snow, I thought you were being facetious, hence I didn't think to answer your question.

[deseretgov]

Maybe something to do with the Mayan Calendar, when the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars.

Yes, In preparation for the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

[ruthiechan]

Yes, In preparation for the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

. . .

Uhm. . .

[pam]

Read Moksha's comment and you will probably understand Deseretgov's comment.

[Hemidakota]

Read D&C section 29

[Snow]

Are you trying to be controversial? Is that why no one is answering you?

As I understand, from a purely JW background the signs of the times are the signs of the end times which precede the second coming of christ. According to this article I am semi-right:

Signs of the Times - Mormonism, The Mormon Church, Beliefs, & Religion - MormonWiki

Am I right on?

Asking for clarification and explanation is somehow controversial??????

Ok.

[Snow]

Yes, you are spot on.

Snow, I thought you were being facetious, hence I didn't think to answer your question.

I asked because "signs of the times" simply refers to things that pertain to a specific period of time. For example, iPods and white ear buds are a sign of our current times while bad teeth are or were a sign of recent British times.

What your list refers to is signs of the END times... but that isn't clear because of the things on the list. For example:

1. The Great Apostasy... that is not a sign of the end times. That is a historical event that occured 1800-1900 years ago.

3. Discovery of the printing press was also an event from hundreds of years ago - although printing by a press is actually much much older dating to ancient China. What is significant about Gutenberg was not the invention (discovery is the wrong word) of the printing press, but rather of movable type.

5. The Discovery of America happened 10s of thousands of years ago.

7. Bible Translation - was translated into Greek well over a thousand and more years ago.

28. Scientific progress... has been happening steadily for 10 thousand years.

29. Disease - tens of thousands of years old.

31. Disasters... millions of years old.

etc...

In short, the list is a joke, factually wrong and cannot be taken seriously by anyone.

[deseretgov]

In short, the list is a joke, factually wrong and cannot be taken seriously by anyone.

So how about contributing positively and posting YOUR list of signs of the End Times.

[Snow]

So how about contributing positively and posting YOUR list of signs of the End Times.

I am contributing positively by pointing out the absurdity of silly and factually incorrect lists that really mean nothing or less than nothing.

Certainly some people can think critically all by themselves but other's need a prompting.

As for posting my own list - it's pointless. The writers of the New Testament thought they were living in the end times, expecting an immediate 2nd coming. While many have thought the same thing though out the last 2000 years, the early LDS Church were the ultimate millennialists. They all turned out to be wrong.

[pam]

Snow, while I think you make a valid point I also think you are talking semantics here. I think you also know exactly what people were referring to when they asked or compiled the list. Come on man, give people a break here. Would you have been happier with a title "Things that must happen before Christ' return?"

Edited July 24, 2009 by pam

[Justice]

It is the right of the person who made the post to include all "end time" prophecies in the Bible, especially if they designate some as "already complete," as they did. I thought it was a dead give away what was being done. I, too, would have liked to see you contribute constructively.

In short, the list is a joke, factually wrong and cannot be taken seriously by anyone.

A joke? How nice of you.

That's not considered constructive on anyone's list but yours. If you disagree, state your disagreement without demeaning others. Frankly, I'm surprised you're still here.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Justice

[Snow]

A joke? How nice of you.

That's not considered constructive on anyone's list but yours. If you disagree, state your disagreement without demeaning others. Frankly, I'm surprised you're still here.

Really?

Who is demeaned? Nobody here wrote the list. The poster simply posted it and asked for input and comment. Somehow some interpret that to mean only happy uncritical comment.

Here's the deal... If something is hogwash, I'll say it is hogwash. That's not negative - that real.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

The two prophets are LDS Apostles that will be assigned to that region after the missionaries are called home.

Ruthie, excellent list...

References? I've always heard that one too, but just because it's "common knowledge" doesn't make it truth or doctrine. Not making that distinction is what has lead to so much confusion in other churches.

I am contributing positively by pointing out the absurdity of silly and factually incorrect lists that really mean nothing or less than nothing.

Certainly some people can think critically all by themselves but other's need a prompting.

As for posting my own list - it's pointless. The writers of the New Testament thought they were living in the end times, expecting an immediate 2nd coming. While many have thought the same thing though out the last 2000 years, the early LDS Church were the ultimate millennialists. They all turned out to be wrong.

Granted I think the list, as original posted, is banal and uneducational. However the list was posted in the hopes of improving it with references and doctrinal interpretations. Sounds like a fun exercise to me :) As for what the writers of the NT thought, or what the early LDS leaders thought, I doubt you'll find any conclusive evidence that such ideas were taught or thought by those in leadership roles. Church members individually tend to think radically different things from what the leaders teach (that goes for any church, including our own).

You seem to have a driving focus on getting others to "think critically". I'm reminded of the "living challenge" role played by Raja Flattery as the agent/advocate of Ship. But if Ship were Satan, that would make him Satan's advocate, and as has been said before by prophets "Satan needs no advocates".

[Ezequiel]

woah, for some reason I thought this was a different thread and missed aso much of it!

I just wanted to ask about another prophecy! I have heard that the year before the second coming, there would be NO rainbows... Has anyone else heard of this? I heard it so many times, but I have no reference to this! Is it scriptural? Was it said by a church leader? Just... what!?!?!? Where did this 'prophecy' come from?

[Snow]

You seem to have a driving focus on getting others to "think critically". I'm reminded of the "living challenge" role played by Raja Flattery as the agent/advocate of Ship. But if Ship were Satan, that would make him Satan's advocate, and as has been said before by prophets "Satan needs no advocates".

I suppose that you are thus implying that I am advocating for Satan because I, like you, think the list is banal. I'm trying to find the logic in that, but so far, have come up short.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

woah, for some reason I thought this was a different thread and missed aso much of it!

I just wanted to ask about another prophecy! I have heard that the year before the second coming, there would be NO rainbows... Has anyone else heard of this? I heard it so many times, but I have no reference to this! Is it scriptural? Was it said by a church leader? Just... what!?!?!? Where did this 'prophecy' come from?

Rainbow Before Second Coming? - Mormon Apologetics & Discussion Board :

“The Lord hath set the bow in the cloud for a sign that while it shall be seen, seed time and harvest, summer and winter shall not fail; but when it shall disappear, woe to that generation, for behold the end cometh quickly (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 305).”

A later, fuller treatment of the matter by the prophet reads: “I have asked the Lord concerning His coming; and while asking the Lord, he gave a sign and said, ‘In the days of Noah I set a bow in the heavens as a sign and token that in any year that the bow should be seen the Lord would not come; but there should be seed time and harvest during that year: but whenever you see the bow withdrawn, it shall be a token that there shall be famine, pestilence, and great distress among the nations, and that the coming of the Messiah is not far distant.’

“But I will take the responsibility upon myself to prophesy in the name of the Lord, that Christ will not come this year…for we have seen the bow…Brethren, when you go home, write it down, that it may be remembered (Teachings, pg. 340-41).”

Best I could find in a quick search. I'm still looking for the full text of that book (it's not the same one as the current PH/RS manual) but haven't found it yet.

:edit:

While the above reader on that other forum quoted from a different book, the same quotation appears in our current priesthood manual on page 252 paragraph 4 (I don't have my paper copy handy so I can't guarantee the accuracy of that page number). It's available online at : LDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - The Second Coming and the Millennium under the section "The signs of the Savior’s coming are being fulfilled; the faithful will recognize these signs and have peace in perilous times." about 9 paragraphs down.

Edited July 26, 2009 by puf_the_majic_dragon

[Guest missingsomething]

if the world and heavens could be all figured out by one... wow... some people believe that they know more and have a greater understanding and thereby a responsibility to make others see the flaws in their thoughts... to this I am sorry... this is a great post and has been brought down once again with negativity...

OP... many others... AWESOME positive discussion!

and Changed... wow what a list.... did you find that or compile it? wow.. thx for the work.

Edited July 26, 2009 by missingsomething

[Jasmin]

Asking for clarification and explanation is somehow controversial??????

Ok.

You were trying to be controversial. You were pointing out how you felt about the list. I am a new member and was not trying to stir the pot. I just wanted to know why no one was answering your questions.

[Snow]

You were trying to be controversial. You were pointing out how you felt about the list. I am a new member and was not trying to stir the pot. I just wanted to know why no one was answering your questions.

Well that's wrong. My pointing out the silliness of the list didn't come out until after someone had clarified the what the list was intended to be. It the intent of the list was something different than what I found out it was, then I wouldn't have had any comment on it.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

On the subject: Revelation 8 and Doctrine and Covenants 38

[Barter_Town]

The two prophets are LDS Apostles that will be assigned to that region after the missionaries are called home.

Well considering that LDS missionaries won't be proselyting in Jerusalem anytime soon, I guess we can assume this won't be happening in the near future.

Although, I'd wager that this prophecy could be easily fulfilled at least in part, if two LDS apostles were to go tracting in some areas of Jerusalem today. LOL

Edited August 2, 2009 by Barter_Town