Proof that God Answers Prayer???

[Guest missingsomething]

I always hear the phrase "God's will be done".

Then I ask, what's the point in praying if no matter what God's will is done?

If it's God's will for Bob to die of cancer, then no matter how much we pray he will die. If it's God's will he will live, then no matter if we pray or not he'll live.

So then, are there situations where God lets things randomly play out unguided by his hand? Are these the situations that God will grant our prayerful desires - The situations where he has no will one way or the other? Or does he ALWAYS have a will?

Something to think about!

A much better way to get people to think... no contention here...

Perhaps praying isnt to change God's will but to help make His will our own?

[beefche]

I always hear the phrase "God's will be done".

Then I ask, what's the point in praying if no matter what God's will is done?

If it's God's will for Bob to die of cancer, then no matter how much we pray he will die. If it's God's will he will live, then no matter if we pray or not he'll live.

So then, are there situations where God lets things randomly play out unguided by his hand? Are these the situations that God will grant our prayerful desires - The situations where he has no will one way or the other? Or does he ALWAYS have a will?

Something to think about!

God's will is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of mankind. Part of that plan is agency. I'm reminded of that scripture in D&C "it mattereth not unto me" one--the one where the leaders were commanded to travel somewhere to preach the gospel. They weren't sure if they should use a boat or horse. God basically said, "get there--I don't care. Whatever you decide is fine and there will be people along the way to preach to." So God's will was to preach the gospel--whether by boat or horse didn't matter--just do it.

[Snow]

OKay, I am truly trying to understand Snow. You believe that because God may not or does not intercede in certain events, that we should not bother praying for it?

My take is that, we pray for everything, with faith that Heavenly Father's will will be done. That means we ask for prayers for job interviews and blessings for a hang nail. Nothing is too small for prayer, regardless of whether Heavenly Father chooses or is able to answer that particular prayer. Prayer, in and of itself, is an excercise in faith. I dare say Heavenly Father would never tell us to not excercise our faith. Are you suggesting that there is ever a time when we waste Heavenly Father's or our own time by excercising our faith? Even in the slightest, tiniest action?

Why Gatorman - you ole straw dog you. There's nothing like taking a persons position (praying for luck in the job market) and extending it to some illogical conclusion that bears little resemblance to the original position in hopes of marginalizing it.

I wonder if you think you pray more than I do. Do you?

[Guest missingsomething]

So snow ... would you please tell me what it will take for you to leave my simple request of asking people to pray for me alone? and to leave me "personally" alone? so that each and every thread on this site isnt returned to it?.....so that you dont pounce on every comment I make... so that those who wish to discuss topics do not have to hash and rehash this? Seriously...

I am sorry if you have chosen to have hurt feelings over anything that I said about your views (not you personally)... would that work? I DO NOT WANT TO CONTENT WITH YOU... BUT I ALSO DO NOT WANT YOU TO CONTINUE to drag this through every thread. Can we be adults over this? I know you can let this go...for everyones sake? I can too... Please do the same and go our ways...

Edited July 27, 2009 by missingsomething

[Snow]

...

Edited July 29, 2009 by Snow

[StallionMcBeastly]

A much better way to get people to think... no contention here...

Perhaps praying isnt to change God's will but to help make His will our own?

Not to change His will.... but perhaps God's will often times is our will? To give us the things we ask of?

Or in other words, God desires to answer our prayers and give us what we ask of... as long as it doesn't contradict His plans. And possibly, he doesn't have EVERY part of our lives planned out.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but LDS don't believe in destiny. I know Prophets were chosen before they were born - but I don't think God has determined every part of our lives.

Many times it is said in scriptures that whatsoever we ask of, if it be good, it shall be given us.

[prospectmom]

Missing if you do not want to contend with Snow why did you come to his thread and start.

[StallionMcBeastly]

Missing, it seems to me that Snow is enjoying getting you all riled up

[bytor2112]

Missing if you do not want to contend with Snow why did you come to his thread and start.

Since when did Snow own the thread?

[Guest missingsomething]

Missing, it seems to me that Snow is enjoying getting you all riled up

Sadly, I think he is all riled up - hence his non-acceptance of my apology and offer to move on.

[prospectmom]

Since when did Snow own the thread?

Bytor .. Snow started this thread and no he dosen't own it but if Missing does not want to contend with him why would she keep it going by continuing on his thread he started. Simple as that.

[bytor2112]

Since when did Snow own the thread?

Bytor .. Snow started this thread and no he dosen't own it but if Missing does not want to contend with him why would she keep it going by continuing on his thread he started. Simple as that.

So.....she's not allowed to post because Snow started a thread? I could be wrong here, but I think Snow has posted on threads that Miss started as well. Contention usually involves more than one person, no?

[StallionMcBeastly]

Maybe you two should just brawl

[Snow]

So.....she's not allowed to post because Snow started a thread? I could be wrong here, but I think Snow has posted on threads that Miss started as well. Contention usually involves more than one person, no?

Of course she can post here. The more the merrier. However, if the mods are consistent, I just have to say that the thread has been hijacked and ask that it be closed.... apparently in some sense (though I disagree) threads do belong to the originator.

[Snow]

Sadly, I think he is all riled up - hence his non-acceptance of my apology and offer to move on.

You apologized? By all means - point me to it. If it was sincere, I could include you in my will by Tuesday.

[john doe]

Better yet, let's all just move on. Seventy times seven, and all that jazz.

[FunkyTown]

Without knowing the specifics on what caused the argument, I can only say:

A thread involving Snow descended in to argument? Perish the thought. That never happens.

[ruthiechan]

Here's an illustration of one of the points that I am making.

Last week in the Church's Deseret News, there are a number of stories about a (now former) seminary principle who is accused of 21 felony counts of rape and forcible sodomy with one of the children in his seminary.

It reminds me of a case a few years ago when we were called into an urgent priesthood meeting and it was revealed that one of the stalwarts of our ward - former bishop, high councilman, senior missionary, etc had been excommunicated and was going to plead guilty... turns out he was a serial child abuser and had used his standing in the church to commit his crimes.

Let's suppose that neither of these two sorry characters were psychopaths - that at one time, they probably had some sort of sincere desires to serve. The principle from Utah was probably in a paid position and had probably prayed that he would land the job. The bishop probably prayed for strength and guidance to fulfill his calling.

Let's also suppose that the parents of all those victimized children had prayed for the safety and welfare of their children.

So what's the deal?

That God is omniscient is fundamental to our faith so let's agree that God hears and listens to our prayers. Did God respond to the prayers of parents who wished safety for their children? No, obviously not. Are we to conclude that God doesn't want what is best for us? No - we believe that God is benevolent. So what is the deal?

Obviously God just stays out of a lot of things - a hand off approach.

Certainly God knew that the bishop would be an abuser and the principle would be a rapist. Would God deliberately supernaturally intercede to place both criminals in their positions knowing the damage they would do?

I guess the possibilities are two-fold:

1. No - God didn't supernaturally intercede to place the two villians.

2. Yes - He did.

If 2 is your answer - how to you justify it? Do you claim that the horrible crimes were for the good? Do you claim that the crimes were not really bad?

What's the simplest explanation: That God wants what's good for us, but in large measure just stays out of a lot of stuff.

There is another explanation.

Not everyone properly inquires of the Lord about whom to put into these trusted positions. They think, oh, so and so would be great, they feel good about it right then, but it's their own reasoning that causes the feel good feelings and not the Spirit, but they assume it's the Spirit directing them, so they skip the part where they should pray about their decision.

In the case of the Seminary teacher it could be that he was having issues, started talking to a sympathetic ear, his student, which led to an inappropriate relationship. It could be that the girl was also vulnerable, confused, because of her family problems which made it more likely for the relationship to start. But it must be noted that most family problems, and most marriage problems, are a result of not observing to keep commandments.

In the case of the Bishop, well, pedophiles are very good at deceiving people. They always seem like nice, lovable, wonderful, trustworthy people. Or maybe he always had a secret problem and thought he could handle it.

It is cases such as these where I think it is perfectly within someone's rights, male or female, to have a private discussion with a leader, such as a Bishop, with someone trusted present. Male OBGYN's always have to have a nurse with them when conducting examinations so the Doctor has a witness that the exam was conducted professionally. While these cases are not the majority, it does present concerns for the future, especially since we know that in the Last Days many of God's elect will fall.

The fact of the matter is, in my opinion, we take for granted our Gift of the Holy Ghost. We do not actively seek out the Holy Ghost, we just assume that we'll be warned of danger, maybe even in a sort of boot to the head fashion, and when we don't get that clue in we think everything's fine and dandy. We do not pay enough attention. We do not listen to our children. How many parents ignore their kids when they really really don't want to do something? How many parents will say, "now now, you need to talk to the Bishop for xyz reason" and force them to do it, assuming that the kid is just rebelling against God?

This isn't a simple matter of praying for something and getting it. Most people passively pray. They do not do any work afterwards to give God something to work with. He's not going to just give it to you easy peasy. Oliver Cowdrey made that mistake when he wanted to translate the plates. The idea of search, ponder, and pray isn't just for translating the word of God. If you want your child to be safe, then you do everything in your power to make sure your child is safe. You also teach your child how to deal with situations when someone chooses to do evil against them, keeping lines of communication open. That is part of keeping your child safe, teaching them correct principles so they can govern themselves and teaching them how to face adversity. Then, and only then do you leave the rest up to God in faith

These are the Last Days. If you do not keep your personal and family religious observances and constantly seek the Holy Ghost's companionship then you will fall when the fiery darts of hell assail you. God will not force you to do these things. But if you don't it affects more than just you. It affects your entire family.

Disclaimer: All you's are general.

[nannysherri]

Missing I do enjoy your posts so I hope to keep seeing you.

I tend to be one who loves to learn the gospel by study and by faith, after all it is the Lord's word we are learning about. We are limited in what knowldge we can gain here, though I do feel we are expected to search and study but it is in Prayer we get the correct answers, kind of like getting are tests corrected on what we learn.

[Guest missingsomething]

Missing I do enjoy your posts so I hope to keep seeing you.

I tend to be one who loves to learn the gospel by study and by faith, after all it is the Lord's word we are learning about. We are limited in what knowldge we can gain here, though I do feel we are expected to search and study but it is in Prayer we get the correct answers, kind of like getting are tests corrected on what we learn.

Thanks nanny what a great thought.. I do really believe it.

[Avrham]

can anyone give one defining meaning to what "proof" is

[Maureen]

So please provide the evidence that prayers are answered by a supernatural deity and that the supernatural deity in the God of LDS understanding. I'll wait.

I prayed, as did others, both friends, family and strangers, that I would get pregnant and have children. And while praying I sought out medical help to get pregnant. My prayers were eventually answered in the affirmative; it took a few years. My daughter's name is Janae and in one baby book I found her name means "God's reply". The doctors and medical staff that helped were wonderful and I definitely appreciated all the people that prayed for me, even those strangers that I didn't even know. My prayer request was to get pregnant and in the end I did it twice; and they're great kids.

[Snow]

I prayed, as did others, both friends, family and strangers, that I would get pregnant and have children. And while praying I sought out medical help to get pregnant. My prayers were eventually answered in the affirmative; it took a few years. My daughter's name is Janae and in one baby book I found her name means "God's reply". The doctors and medical staff that helped were wonderful and I definitely appreciated all the people that prayed for me, even those strangers that I didn't even know. My prayer request was to get pregnant and in the end I did it twice; and they're great kids.

Maureen,

I also happen to know that you are a critical thinker and so understands that is proof of nothing, just as you also understand that lots of women pray to get pregnant and don't.

Whether one prays gets pregnant or one prays and does not, one can always said that whatever the result was (preggers or no), that was God's reply.

... and for that matter, even if we, for the sake of argument, stipulate that becoming pregnant was a result of supernatural intervention (as opposed to natural, explainable circumstances) there is no evidence that the intervention was caused by the Christian God as opposed to some other supernatural being who responded to some prayers and ignored other prayers for reasons that are beyond our ken.

[bmy-]

Maureen,

I also happen to know that you are a critical thinker and so understands that is proof of nothing, just as you also understand that lots of women pray to get pregnant and don't.

Whether one prays gets pregnant or one prays and does not, one can always said that whatever the result was (preggers or no), that was God's reply.

... and for that matter, even if we, for the sake of argument, stipulate that becoming pregnant was a result of supernatural intervention (as opposed to natural, explainable circumstances) there is no evidence that the intervention was caused by the Christian God as opposed to some other supernatural being who responded to some prayers and ignored other prayers for reasons that are beyond our ken.

I'm sure plenty of boyfriends around the world have prayed that their girlfriends did not get pregnant.. and did not have them answered as well.

I really like the question "Why does God not heal amputees?"

[ruthiechan]

I'm sure plenty of boyfriends around the world have prayed that their girlfriends did not get pregnant.. and did not have them answered as well.

I really like the question "Why does God not heal amputees?"

Are not miracles predicated upon faith, and that it is the level of faith that determines the result?

How many people pray half heartedly, or pray in fear instead of in faith? They ask to get pregnant or something else, but then don't believe that God will answer their prayer, and so God's hands are tied because they do not act in faith. Or maybe they just keeping doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting a different result. Or maybe God answered their prayer or gave them direction so that he can but people don't follow up on it because it's not the answer they wanted or for some other reason?

I remember one time my mother parking in a spot that was illegal for her to park in. She said a prayer to not get a ticket. She got a ticket.

I remember one time, when I was eight years old, trying to get a large spoon out of the dishwasher from the bottom of the top rack. I saw a knife sticking up in the bottom rack. I thought that I might get hurt, but I was also really determined to get the spoon out the hard way (raccoon mentality here). I, of course, slipped, and was cut by the knife. I still have the deep scar in the palm of my hand.

Moral of the story, God won't magically get you out of a mess you make for yourself, especially if you know better.