HEthePrimate Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Hi Snow, I received a spiritual witness that God exists. That works for me, but I do not claim to be able to provide "incontrovertible evidence" to other people. It's not strictly empirical in that it is not quantifiable and not consistently reproducible by experiment (the Holy Ghost decides when and if She visits us). So, I say that I know that God exists, but I cannot prove it to others--it's a personal experience. Don't worry about others' rudeness and all that "kicking against the pricks" talk. For many, many years I didn't "know" God was there, but I relied on scriptures from the Book of Mormon and D&C that say that it's ok, and sufficient for salvation, simply to believe in God. If you don't know right now, not to worry. That gave me some peace of mind until some years later when I did receive my spiritual witness and thus came to know for myself. Shalom, HEP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Hi Snow,I received a spiritual witness that God exists. That works for me, but I do not claim to be able to provide "incontrovertible evidence" to other people. It's not strictly empirical in that it is not quantifiable and not consistently reproducible by experiment (the Holy Ghost decides when and if She visits us). So, I say that I know that God exists, but I cannot prove it to others--it's a personal experience.Don't worry about others' rudeness and all that "kicking against the pricks" talk. For many, many years I didn't "know" God was there, but I relied on scriptures from the Book of Mormon and D&C that say that it's ok, and sufficient for salvation, simply to believe in God. If you don't know right now, not to worry. That gave me some peace of mind until some years later when I did receive my spiritual witness and thus came to know for myself.Shalom,HEPI'd say that sounds right but instead of "know" (God exists... etc), I'd say you are "convinced."There are millions and millions of others who "know" things about God that you "know" differently: Muslims, Baptists, Catholics, etc. In reality, they do not know either, they are just "convinced." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) That's because you are a little more strict in your usage of the word know than others are. :) Edited August 1, 2009 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) I'd say that sounds right but instead of "know" (God exists... etc), I'd say you are "convinced."There are millions and millions of others who "know" things about God that you "know" differently: Muslims, Baptists, Catholics, etc. In reality, they do not know either, they are just "convinced."How do you know we don't know? I'm somewhat of a universalist, believing that God is too big to fit into one religion, so to speak. Because I am human, my understanding of God is imperfect. So is that of any given person, whether Muslim or Mormon, Shinto or Sikh. I think people of different faiths catch glimpses of God and understand Her in their own way, but "through a glass, darkly." Maybe some of what I believe is true, and some of what a Buddhist believes is true, and we each make mistakes in our thinking, too. Our human minds are simply to feeble to take it all in and process it. Just MHO.Peace,HEP Edited August 1, 2009 by HEthePrimate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I think people of different faiths catch glimpses of God and understand Her in their own way, Her????????? You are LDS, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthiechan Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Her????????? You are LDS, right?Not once do the scriptures relate to us the gender of the Holy Ghost. It is quite feasible then, that the Holy Ghost is female. After all, you don't have to have the Priesthood to be a Comforter and a Witness and all that jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Not once do the scriptures relate to us the gender of the Holy Ghost. It is quite feasible then, that the Holy Ghost is female. After all, you don't have to have the Priesthood to be a Comforter and a Witness and all that jazz. Besides, why would a Divine Feminine be subject to Priesthood restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Maureen,I also happen to know that you are a critical thinker and so understands that is proof of nothing, just as you also understand that lots of women pray to get pregnant and don't.Whether one prays gets pregnant or one prays and does not, one can always said that whatever the result was (preggers or no), that was God's reply.... and for that matter, even if we, for the sake of argument, stipulate that becoming pregnant was a result of supernatural intervention (as opposed to natural, explainable circumstances) there is no evidence that the intervention was caused by the Christian God as opposed to some other supernatural being who responded to some prayers and ignored other prayers for reasons that are beyond our ken.I agree that my getting pregnant was not necessarily "proof" that God did anything special to give me what I wanted. There are many who pray for things they desperately want but still do not get. I do find it silly when people pray to God for something that common sense could provide. I think praying to God for certain requests is just a way to get comfort for things that are out of our control. When my kids or cats are late getting home, I say little prayers for their safety for my own comfort.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Her????????? You are LDS, right?Hi John Doe,Yes, I am LDS (though perhaps not strictly orthodox, depending upon how one defines that word!). I was mostly just having a little fun by using the feminine pronoun. However, various groups including some of the Gnostics did believe that the Holy Ghost was a female, and I've even met LDS people who think She may be Heavenly Mother. And why not? :)Peace,HEP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 The Holy Ghost may be feminine, we don't know, but God most definitely is not. You specifically referred to God, not the Holy Ghost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Since when did Snow own the thread? Bytor .. Snow started this thread and no he dosen't own it but if Missing does not want to contend with him why would she keep it going by continuing on his thread he started. Simple as that. I understand what you are saying, if that helps.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 The Holy Ghost may be feminine, we don't know, but God most definitely is not. Sort of like a cuter ectoplasmic vase in between two iron vases, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthiechan Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 The Holy Ghost may be feminine, we don't know, but God most definitely is not. You specifically referred to God, not the Holy Ghost.It was my understanding that he was referring to the Holy Ghost not God the Father or Jesus Christ. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Actually Ruthie this is what he said:Originally Posted by HEthePrimate I think people of different faiths catch glimpses of God and understand Her in their own way, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) It was my understanding that he was referring to the Holy Ghost not God the Father or Jesus Christ. . .This is his post. I see no reference to the Holy Ghost. Do you? How do you know we don't know? I'm somewhat of a universalist, believing that God is too big to fit into one religion, so to speak. Because I am human, my understanding of God is imperfect. So is that of any given person, whether Muslim or Mormon, Shinto or Sikh. I think people of different faiths catch glimpses of God and understand Her in their own way, but "through a glass, darkly." Maybe some of what I believe is true, and some of what a Buddhist believes is true, and we each make mistakes in our thinking, too. Our human minds are simply to feeble to take it all in and process it. Just MHO.Peace,HEP _____________Can you please point me to the browser that translates the part of that passage that says 'God' to 'Holy Ghost'? Because Firefox doesn't do that. And unless you can show me where any LDS Prophet has proclaimed that God is female, then I'll call it what it is: false doctrine. If it seems I'm a little cranky on this point, it's because I am. Why is it that we have people claiming to be LDS coming in here and telling us that Joseph Smith lied? Or that Nephi lied? Or that God is a woman? Why not just admit that they can't reconcile an issue in their head and that they are working on understanding it? They have no proof for their allegations other than the scriptures or teachings don't fit in the box they have created for them to fit in. And then they have the gall to call those of us who have reconciled the official story as unthinking rubes who couldn't put two sensible thoughts together. Here's a thought: since they are the ones having trouble making things mesh, maybe the problem doesn't lie with God, but within themselves and their limited comprehension skills. Okay, I'm going to come down off my soapbox now. Sorry, Ruthie, the last part wasn't aimed at you, but I felt I had to say it somewhere here. Edited August 3, 2009 by john doe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Might I add to JD's post..or those that say in a case of divorce and remarriage that you must give up your current spouse and family and return to the original spouse in order to be fully repentant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningStar Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I have my own personal proof that prayers are answered. Faith precedes the miracle. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthiechan Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 This is his post. I see no reference to the Holy Ghost. Do you? Can you please point me to the browser that translates the part of that passage that says 'God' to 'Holy Ghost'? Because Firefox doesn't do that. And unless you can show me where any LDS Prophet has proclaimed that God is female, then I'll call it what it is: false doctrine. If it seems I'm a little cranky on this point, it's because I am. Why is it that we have people claiming to be LDS coming in here and telling us that Joseph Smith lied? Or that Nephi lied? Or that God is a woman? Why not just admit that they can't reconcile an issue in their head and that they are working on understanding it? They have no proof for their allegations other than the scriptures or teachings don't fit in the box they have created for them to fit in. And then they have the gall to call those of us who have reconciled the official story as unthinking rubes who couldn't put two sensible thoughts together. Here's a thought: since they are the ones having trouble making things mesh, maybe the problem doesn't lie with God, but within themselves and their limited comprehension skills. Okay, I'm going to come down off my soapbox now. Sorry, Ruthie, the last part wasn't aimed at you, but I felt I had to say it somewhere here.I figured that out real quick that the last part wasn't directed at me. I must admit that I have no idea why my brain read/interpreted HEtheprimate's post wrong. I seriously read it as the Holy Ghost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanh Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Why is it that we have people claiming to be LDS coming in here and telling us that Joseph Smith lied? Or that Nephi lied? Or that God is a woman? Why not just admit that they can't reconcile an issue in their head and that they are working on understanding it? They have no proof for their allegations other than the scriptures or teachings don't fit in the box they have created for them to fit in. And then they have the gall to call those of us who have reconciled the official story as unthinking rubes who couldn't put two sensible thoughts together. Here's a thought: since they are the ones having trouble making things mesh, maybe the problem doesn't lie with God, but within themselves and their limited comprehension skills.Or that God doesn't answer prayers in ways that provide that individual with proof of His existance and intervention. I guess Joseph Smith was daydreaming? Or just convinced he saw 'something'? Edited August 3, 2009 by ryanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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