At A Loss

[slipknot]

I am at a loss right now and frankly I am lost, big time. My wife and I have been members for a little more than a year. This means that we are fairly new in the church.

Right now things look like a huge cluster.... so I frankly don't even know where to start. I know only a few things, like my wife and I are offended by the local leadership of the church big time, but I am not really angry at any single member of the leadership. I don't want to go back to church and neither does my wife. It's not because our testimony is any less but rather, well I don't know. I do know that over time our testimony for the truth will decrease and I don't want that.

If I could sum up my feelings, I feel like I have been stabbed in the back. I feel like I have taken on the devil, asked for help from fellow church members and I got stabbed in the back by the leadership. I feel disgusted.

Maybe it's time for some details instead of justing talking about what I feel, even though I know this has little to do with the events and details and much more to do with how we feel.

Ok, about a month and a half, a life long member right from Utah arrived in our branch in a far away land. No one else wanted to help him so I did. I helped him find a place to live and helped arrange paperwork for his wife to join him. Throughout it all, I dealt with his extreme negativity. Never have I seen such negativity in my life. He also insulted my family's very meager and humble home as beneath him. Despite it all, I felt helping was the right thing to do.

My helping also meant that I let him use the family computer to check his email and the like. After he left(after four days in the house all day), my kids go on the computer to play their educational games. As they clicked, they accidentally went into his email account and had pulled up a porn picture of this man's wife having sex with another man. I got my kids away from the computer and then I realized there was a problem. I checked to see if it was a fluke or not and when I realized that this man was distributing pornography, I realized there was a problem at hand. (The email that took the cake was the one who sent of him at General Conference, in the conference center, and then right below it in the email was a picture of his wife masturbating)

Anyways, I didn't know what to do so I called a long time member friend on the phone and asked for his advice. He said to wait and he'd come over and then we could know what to do. When we took a look, we realized that they were into sadomasochism, sex with underage(under 18) girls, and other very gross and disgusting things. The wife, a member of 5 years, was the instigator of much of it as was determined from the emails. We reported this to the branch president and this should have been the end of it.

The branch president brought them in and had a long talk with them and all of that. Frankly, it didn't pertain to me so the only important thing is that they were getting the help they needed to get to repentance. The BP told me that they would convening a disciplinary council and I was like, that's not important for me to know.

Anyways, a few weeks later, the wife of a good friend of ours came over to stay and we helped her rent in the same hotel this couple was staying in. She needed to be there 3 weeks before her husband arrived and he asked me to watch over, not only that I sponsored her for her visa with the idea that I would be responsible for her. Anyways, this couple started bothering her and my friend wanted to know what was up- with the couple. I advised him of the behavior they were engaging in. At this point he was scared for his wife and asked me to go to his wife and ask her to call him right then and there so he could explain things to her.

Cool. I took my two kids over there to the place and went to talk to her to have her call her husband. They were there and I told the woman, look your husband needs to call you right now, it's an emergency and you need to be alone when you talk to him. They left and followed me out and started questioning me and the like. After several belligerent remarks ignored, they were becoming angry as to why I asked them to leave the room.

I was at the bottom of the stairs and they were at the top at this point, but I finally had enough and I knew I wouldn't lie. I told them look, it's not appropriate for you two to be spending time alone with a woman away from her husband.

The wife flipped her lid and came bounding down the stairs yelling at me about how bad of a member I was and how she was going to tell the branch president on me. I kept walking out of the hotel and by time I got out of it, the husband had gotten ahead of me, threw off his backpack, yelled "you fat piece of sh*t" and proceeded to take a swing at me. I had my 7 year old son in one hand and my 5 year old son in another. I walked around them and kept walking towards the road and these people kept right after us screaming all forms of obscenities and general scary my kids.

We finally got away and about an hour later, the branch president tried to contact me. I callled him back not expecting very much to deal with. I told him my side of the story and then he asked to meet me the next day and I said sure.

I didn't expect that I would be the bad guy, but I was labeled the bad guy. At the meeting the next day, I was told that I should do this and that and this. I was like ok. On Sunday she bore her testimony about how to be friendly to other people like she is and all a bunch of other hypocriticals things.

Anyways after f&t meeting I was called into the BP office to once again talk about all of this. I told them straight up that I was tired of the hypocrisy and they once again told me that I was in the wrong for warning my friend about this. I feel like I am completely in the right because if they had been behaving appropirately either before or after they went into the BP then none of this would have happen. I was upset that I was being blamed.

Fast forward to the next Wednesday, we worked at the same school and my kids were in school and this guy scared them badly. I took them by the hand and told them, don't worry about him, Daddy is here. The guy flipped out and said that I was lying to my kids. I said, wait a second, my kids wouldn't be scared of you if you and your wife hadn't done what you did. He said, I am going to tell the branch president on you. (You can stop laughing now)

Anyways, I have to talk to the branch president once again. He tells me that I need to apologize to this couple and I think about it. These people come into my home with their pornography, they insult me, they hurt my kids and then I need to apologize. I have no problem forgiving them and i have done it already, but I have nothing to apologize for.

But this wouldnt be an issue if I didn't feel like they have made me out to be the bad guy.

Anyways, the next day my wife talked to the branch president and he told her 3 lies about me. These were lies my wife knew weren't true. We decided not to go to church on Sunday.

On Sunday afternoon, the BP and EQ President stopped by the house. I confronted them about the lies, one of which involved the EQ President himself. Come to find out, the BP was caught out in the lie(I think he was just misinformed and passed it along as if it was the truth).

Fast forward to Friday of this week. The guy is getting let go from his work because of several issues and the BP wanted to talk to the principal about this. Since the BP thinks that I had something to do with it, I am paranoid enough to think that he will talk about me.

The altercation and the subsequent activities did not need to involve the branch presidency and the branch presidency doesn't need to be taking sides.

And this is where I stand today. My wife doesn't want to ever go back to this branch. I don't want to and this is bad for my family. I am at a loss.

I feel really bad because my wife was sustained a little over a month ago as primary president and now she doesn't even want to continue.

I feel like Satan has attacked my family and the church leadership helped Satan along.

I have no idea what to do. Any advice is appreciated.

[Mahone]

Fast forward to Friday of this week. The guy is getting let go from his work because of several issues and the BP wanted to talk to the principal about this. Since the BP thinks that I had something to do with it, I am paranoid enough to think that he will talk about me.

What on earth does his job have to do with the church? If he thinks he is being let go unfairly, there are channels he is supposed to go down to deal with this, and the church has never been one of them. I'm confused.

[Gatorman]

This is a difficult situation. First, remember, local leaders are people too. They can make mistakes. Second, Heavenly Father put no qualifiers on who we are supposed to forgive. That means, you must find a way to forgive both the couple and the local leadership. Now, does this mean you don't be careful around them? No. And, it may not be easy. Trust me, I know.

Having said that, something I have learned through personal and tangental experience is, those who are doing 'wrong' tend to be the greatest blamers of all. I would seek out the authorities above your BP, though if you are in a branch, that could be difficult. Talk to them about your situation. Ask for a blessing. But, pray to overcome your own <Yours and wifes> concerns about those around you so you can continue to do what the Lord has asked in attending your meetings, etc. Your wife made a commitment to the Lord to serve the children. Regardless of what led to the trial, do you want either of you to fall short? Will it be easy? Probably not. But, there is a promise. We are given no trial we can not handle.

Now, my advice of easy said than done. Pray for those you are angry with. Pray for them to find the light again. Pray for them to return to the path, etc. Even if you can not be around them for personal reasons, pray for opportunities to serve them and be an example for them. The telling of the husband and wife is a dicey issue. If you truly believe, based on prayerful consideration, that telling something of this nature was correct, then, stick to your agency. Do what the church asks, if anything. Remember, the things you were discussing were items that went before the BP and, as such, should not be for public consumption. Did you consider contacting the BP so that he could talk to the second family about it? Not right or wrong, just a consideration.

Again, it is difficult to suggest things when you are not there, personally involved, or in the priesthood line of authority. But, what I can say is that, even if they are wrong, we are called upon to uphold and sustain the local leaders of the church. If you believe your Bishop/BP is wrong and it is impacting things, go to his authority. Give it to them, forgive those who have done wrong, and let the Lord and his appointed leaders deal with it. But, you still have covenants and commandments to follow of your own. Good luck and many prayers for you and your family.

[slipknot]

Well, Heavenly Father has taken care of the branch presidency. There will be a new one next Sunday, probably. That's why I am struggling. I feel a certain way but can't properly express it towards any one or any thing. I am so conflicted and confused.

I didn't join the LDS Church because I stopped believing in the bible. I joined the Mormon Church because other churches weren't properly following the bible. If I am a fair person, then I will hold the LDS church to the same standards I hold other churches to. It's only fair. If the branch here is not following the bible and Book of Mormon, then .....

I might also state that this man who started all of these problems is the stepson of some important attorney in SLC(or so he says). I don't know if there is some favoritism being shown to him because of his station or not.

[Wingnut]

It sounds to me like after you initially reported this man to the Branch President, that you should have run as far away from him as possible. Instead, you continued to have contact with him, which brought you and your family into uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situations (dangerous both physically and spiritually). Since you can't undo what you've already done, I suggest that going forward, you don't have anything to do with them anymore, for the good of your family. Give the new branch presidency a chance. The Church is still true, even if leadership is sometimes flawed.

[Guest missingsomething]

Slip,

I am full of things to say to you... I hope some of it helps.. but be warned this could be long.

I joined the church when I was 13, my sister and I joined a branch of 19 active members, and we were the only new baptisms in over two years. We were not allowed to take the discussions in our home....infact, we were threatened with having to move out if we continued. So we met with the missionaries in the lobby of my apt bldg... that offended people...so we moved to the park in town (public place...what could be wrong, right?...wrong). A member (who became a thorn in my side) called the mission pres. because it "looked" like we were dating by being in public alone with them....yet didnt offer her home as a place to study. Well anyways, that was my first run in.

Because I wasnt set to the mormon-standards when I first started going to church (I showed up for a fireside in jeans with holes at the knees! OHHH boy) I was treated like I was a "problem". As I learned what the standards were - I gladly changed - I was not the rebelious kind. My problems started on a Sunday after Christmas. I got a beautiful pants suit. I proudly wore it to church as it was the NICEST thing I ever owned. I was SHOCKED when the br pres called me into his office. He talked to me about how wrong it was to wear the pants suit because I led the music in sacrament. (I had been a member for about 5 mo). Pants suit... sat in closet never worn again. Enough said right?

For the next 3 years everything I did was under the microscope. I couldnt do anything right - and most of it was made up... perceived.... not actually done. I knew this church was true but I couldnt understand how to reconcile how hateful and judgemental people were. I was disgusted. My mom had been baptized but quickly stopped going (and has never come back) because of several run ins, including - you'll love this- the woman hugs EVERYONE (I hate hugs--hmmm wonder why)... she was told this was wrong for a single woman to do. (She would hug wife/husband) She was told it was only right to hug the women. My mom having never thought that way - well... quit.

It got to the point that i was afraid of my br. pres. He would yell at me so much. I kept thinking in my heart that I wasn't a bad kid, but he kept telling me I was. I was at girls camp 3 yrs after I joined. I have a bubbly attitude but this week I was quiet. I had been warned that if I did anything ...ANYTHING out of sorts here, I would NEVER go back and I would be in his office. (PLEASE get.. .I really wouldnt do anything wrong... leaders from other wards/branches always told me what a great spirit I had) So one night we were setting around the campfire. The preisthood holder there for the night was the 1st counselor in the stake pres. He sat beside me. He said, whats wrong - I notice you arent yoruself. My br. pres had also warned me to never talk about what we talked about in his office. SO I said nothing just being good. He pressed on. I started to cry. The only other YW in our branch came over and hugged me. She said, I'll tell you whats wrong... and once she started it just flowed out ... it flowed out btwn the three of us until well after midnight. He assured me that I wasnt being a bad kid and to relax and enjoy my last 2 days of camp. I felt a burden lifted.

Sunday - I walked into church and nearly had a panic attack as I saw the stake pres. standing in the hall. I couldnt breath. I had made him PROMISE not to ever tell anyone. I heard the music starting so I tried to duck into sacrament, but the door was blocked. When I came to the T in the hall... I got the most hated look from my br. pres. I trembled. I couldnt drive and it was too far to walk home or I would have left. After sacrament... my br pres got me in the hall.... walked me up against the wall with his finger outstretched. I dont remember what he was yelling at me...but the jist was, I told you to never go over my head. You NEVER go over my head you trouble maker. The stake pres saw this.

He wasnt removed as br. pres right away- it took 6 months. But eventually he no longer had power over me. I could have any number of times quit going to church. I cant tell you what made me have the strength to keep going... it wasnt "friends" as we had no youth. I often struggled to find a ride there... but something kept me going.

I HAD RECEIVED A POWERFUL WITNESS THAT THE CHURCH WAS TRUE - THAT THE GOSPEL WAS RESTORED - THAT THE PRIESTHOOD WAS BACK ON THE EARTH -- AND THAT I NEEDED TO BE A MEMBER.

THere will be many people in your life who arent living the gospel. Or should I say who do not appear to be living the gospel. Just remember that they are learning too. We were warned about being offended by Christ himself.... turn the other cheek, forgive 7 times 70, etc. He knew there would be "stupid" people who would do or say "stupid" things. You have to find it in yourself to realize, you didnt join this church because your br. pres. was great - you joined because you received a witness that the Book of Mormon was true and that you believed that the Prophet Monson is a true man of God.

So what happened with me? I kept going to church - I am hyper sensitive to how I treat others (this only makes ME a better person because I see so much more than a lot see at church and I am able to realize when people need help) When something is said off color, I am normally able to shake it off. And when I cant... I talk to those people directly about it. Most of the time, they are not even aware.

But you see, the Church holds the sins of others privately. And gives people the benefit of doubt while they are going through the repentance process. And if they can be forgiven, the church wouldnt want any lingering hard feelings by people who have learned of these sins.... thats why even disciplinary counsels are done in private. So I can see why the br pres cautioned you to not say anything. Not to mention -he may have not wanted you to get in trouble legally for being perceived as slandering this couple. So while his method may have been flawed, he may have been trying to help you too. And asking you to forgive - sometimes thats really hard to swallow. If you dont think you have done anything in need of repentance (and I can not answer this) if you havent said anything bias, out of turn, judgemental, etc... if you would say all of that to the savor and not to the guy who's wife was setting there or your family, then... take it as advice and after prayer do what you think is right. The couple also should and probably were counseled to apologize to you too. But unfortunately, you know too much to pretend at least with your family - this didnt happen. When you start the process of forgiving this couple for all that they have done to you, you will perhaps find some peace. I know this to be the case with me. When I forgave my br. pres. there was a true peace in my life. Those hardships fortified my testimony and truly helped me to grow. My faith has never grown like it did when I was in that branch!!!!

People arent always in the right. The Lord will not let his church be led astray if there are members who are praying and living right. Sometimes, Slip - we need to go even when we have bad feelings. Pray for that br. prs (welll, no he's leaving so see...there ya go).

Keep the faith my friend... it will get better!

[Guest missingsomething]

Well, Heavenly Father has taken care of the branch presidency. There will be a new one next Sunday, probably. That's why I am struggling. I feel a certain way but can't properly express it towards any one or any thing. I am so conflicted and confused.

I didn't join the LDS Church because I stopped believing in the bible. I joined the Mormon Church because other churches weren't properly following the bible. If I am a fair person, then I will hold the LDS church to the same standards I hold other churches to. It's only fair. If the branch here is not following the bible and Book of Mormon, then .....

I might also state that this man who started all of these problems is the stepson of some important attorney in SLC(or so he says). I don't know if there is some favoritism being shown to him because of his station or not.

But Slipknot... did you pray and gain a testimony of Joseph actually seeing the Father and the Son? Did you gain a testimony of the people on the Americas who wrote and testified of Christ in the Book of Mormon? If so, then you need to revisit these things... fortified and remember THIS should be the reason you joined :)

And remember in the bible and book of mormon -people didnt always live right... we make mistakes... thats why we have the atonement. Wingnut is right... gospel is perfect, people are flawed.

ANd even from your side of the story- I dont believe there is favortism happening. The church would protect you as well if you did a serious sin that needed a disciplinary counsel. But again, if the lawyer thing is true... all the more reason the br pres may have asked you not to say anything to anyone -slander you know? :)

[NeuroTypical]

When we took a look, we realized that they were into sadomasochism, sex with underage(under 18) girls,

...

We reported this to the branch president and this should have been the end of it.

The branch president brought them in and had a long talk with them and all of that. Frankly, it didn't pertain to me so the only important thing is that they were getting the help they needed to get to repentance.

So explain something to me. You have proof that these people are raping underage girls, why are you not taking that directly to the police? Why are these people not in jail right now? How is it your only reaction is that these predatory people need help repenting, and you totally gloss over the victims with destroyed lives they're leaving in their wake?

Call the police. Right now. You have a duty, a stewardship, over these innocent victims. I can't even see how this is an LDS issue, as predators like them would lie and manipulate anyone, in a church or out, once their story started getting out.

Dang, slipknot, Call The Police!

LM

[Misshalfway]

Well, Heavenly Father has taken care of the branch presidency. There will be a new one next Sunday, probably. That's why I am struggling. I feel a certain way but can't properly express it towards any one or any thing. I am so conflicted and confused.

I didn't join the LDS Church because I stopped believing in the bible. I joined the Mormon Church because other churches weren't properly following the bible. If I am a fair person, then I will hold the LDS church to the same standards I hold other churches to. It's only fair. If the branch here is not following the bible and Book of Mormon, then .....

I might also state that this man who started all of these problems is the stepson of some important attorney in SLC(or so he says). I don't know if there is some favoritism being shown to him because of his station or not.

Exit yourself from all this drama! Don't get wrapped up in it and don't let it effect your testimony or your obedience. Don't allow yourself to become offended. Yes, this situation was difficult. But I think this is a reflection of those individuals and their dysfunction, not an indicator of whether or not the gospel is true.

I agree with Loudmouth. This is illegal activity and should be reported. If a bishop or BP hears of abuse to a child, they are obligated to report it as well.

People in the church, even the leaders will make mistakes and sometimes really big ones. You will make some too and so will I. Testimony and obedience is based on truth and our relationship with God. We go to church and participate and fulfill callings, not because everyone there is doing the right thing all the time, but because God wants us to be there to bless and serve and worship him and struggle with our weaknesses and try to change them..... and we all get to do that together as we work inside the church. Anchor your testimonies away from humans and inside the gospel itself. Remember that the gospel and the church are two different things. Then when these human dramas play out your can keep your thinking in proper balance.

Pick yourself up and dust yourself off and move on to what is really important in this life. THis storm will blow over.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Misshalfway

[Guest Believer_1829]

When we took a look, we realized that they were into sadomasochism, sex with underage(under 18) girls, and other very gross and disgusting things.

Kiddie Porn is illegal wherever it's tried. Go to the cops and your District President.

[Elgama]

It doesn't matter what the branch is doing - ultimately if your faith is not based in the Lord then you are making Idols of the branch presidency.

Sometimes people are placed in callings not because they are best for the job but because they are the best to in someway further the word of the Lord and sometimes that is working out just how strong the members are.

I have issues with a branch president and a primary president right now which means my daughter is not going to church but I know I am right with the Lord and that is all that matters. No offense but right now you are so obsessed with his porn you might as well be viewing it

-Charley

[FairChild]

Pretty please go to the police. If you have simply deleted the messages from your computer, a person at the PD should be able to pull the pictures back up. Let the PD handle it all. Goodness forbid, if something would happen and the PD went into your computer and found the pictures, you would be held accountable because you did not turn this couple in. Remember, the reason you go to church is for yourself, not for anyone else. I don't agree with what is going on. If the couple keeps harassing you, call the PD and put a restraining order on them. If they continue, use it by calling the PD. It means they they chose to break the order and will go to jail. Their choice. If he was fired, it was because of his choices. No one forced this couple to misbehave. Take care of your self and your family. This is not church policy to cover up for sexually problemed people, rather it is the choices of a few. Sit in the front pew and hold your heads up high. You did the right thing. You did nothing wrong. Don't let the behavior of a few bad apples influence your behavior. Don't quit. I wish you good luck and send you many prayers. by the way, if I did not mention it, I am proud that you helped, you did do a good thing.

[FairChild]

P.S. Please keep us informed on how you and your family are doing.

[slipknot]

Ok, great advice.

@loudmouth mormon: I didn't go to the police. I contacted another priesthood holder and we took it to the branch president who is an attorney for his advice on how to proceed. We also contacted the Elder's Quorum president. The EQ President told us to delete everything off our computer and we did. Any crime that happened is not in this jurisdiction(or even country) so there is nothing that the police could do anyways. I was advised by the branch presidency not to tell anyone this, not even the school principal where this man teaches. Again, legal implications mean my hands are tied, especially since the BP, an attorney, contacted the school to discuss this with them.....

@missing something: I have a very strong testimony as to the truth of the Gospel. I know that Joseph Smith was and is a prophet of God. I know that he saw the Father and the Son in the flesh. I know that the Book of Mormon is scripture. I know the gospel has been restored and that this Church is Christ's church. I have an equally strong testimony about the bible and the prophets from the Bible. I joined the Church because the simple truths of the Bible were supported by the simple truths of the Book of Mormon and vice versa. I joined the Church because of the Restored Gospel.

@FairChild: Thanks. I wish I had read your message before Church. This is a long week. We didn't go again today. Maybe next week.

I analyze things way too much and that is my problem. I know it. I just wish that the BP would have taken two steps back from involvement when he realized that two members had a dispute and that anything he could do would just exasperate the situation. Instead, he has escalated things.

He seems so focused on getting these two back to repentance that he is willing to push my family out of the Church just to get it to happen. I can only look at the actions to decide what he wants. If my family being out of the church will help these two come to a full repentance then my family will oblige.

[Moksha]

Slipknot, I am till back on how that couple were so ungrateful despite the the time and caring you gave to them.

Didn't you say there is going to be a new Branch Presidency? That would go a long way in lessening the sting of all this, would it not?

Using an old adage, it is important to not cut the nose off your face to spite the erraticness of that Branch President.

[Just_A_Guy]

Slipknot -

He's come after you twice, in front of your kids. At least in Utah--and probably in a lot of other US states--you'd have a pretty persuasive case to receive a civil stalking injunction.

If your local law allows it, I'd go and get one. Then you just tell your BP, "I have a legal no-contact order against a branch member. Please transfer my records to a different branch."

Problem solved.

[Guest missingsomething]

He seems so focused on getting these two back to repentance that he is willing to push my family out of the Church just to get it to happen. I can only look at the actions to decide what he wants. If my family being out of the church will help these two come to a full repentance then my family will oblige.

I think you really need to pray on this... I really honestly dont think thats what anyone wants. But only you can decide to forgive and move past this.

And if you truly feel Satan has a hold on you and your family, and you have a testimony of the gospel.. then arent you playing right into satans hands by not going to church?

Do a search on forgiveness at lds.org. There really are COUNTLESS good articles. Good luck again.

[jadams_4040]

I am at a loss right now and frankly I am lost, big time. My wife and I have been members for a little more than a year. This means that we are fairly new in the church.

Right now things look like a huge cluster.... so I frankly don't even know where to start. I know only a few things, like my wife and I are offended by the local leadership of the church big time, but I am not really angry at any single member of the leadership. I don't want to go back to church and neither does my wife. It's not because our testimony is any less but rather, well I don't know. I do know that over time our testimony for the truth will decrease and I don't want that.

If I could sum up my feelings, I feel like I have been stabbed in the back. I feel like I have taken on the devil, asked for help from fellow church members and I got stabbed in the back by the leadership. I feel disgusted.

Maybe it's time for some details instead of justing talking about what I feel, even though I know this has little to do with the events and details and much more to do with how we feel.

Ok, about a month and a half, a life long member right from Utah arrived in our branch in a far away land. No one else wanted to help him so I did. I helped him find a place to live and helped arrange paperwork for his wife to join him. Throughout it all, I dealt with his extreme negativity. Never have I seen such negativity in my life. He also insulted my family's very meager and humble home as beneath him. Despite it all, I felt helping was the right thing to do.

My helping also meant that I let him use the family computer to check his email and the like. After he left(after four days in the house all day), my kids go on the computer to play their educational games. As they clicked, they accidentally went into his email account and had pulled up a porn picture of this man's wife having sex with another man. I got my kids away from the computer and then I realized there was a problem. I checked to see if it was a fluke or not and when I realized that this man was distributing pornography, I realized there was a problem at hand. (The email that took the cake was the one who sent of him at General Conference, in the conference center, and then right below it in the email was a picture of his wife masturbating)

Anyways, I didn't know what to do so I called a long time member friend on the phone and asked for his advice. He said to wait and he'd come over and then we could know what to do. When we took a look, we realized that they were into sadomasochism, sex with underage(under 18) girls, and other very gross and disgusting things. The wife, a member of 5 years, was the instigator of much of it as was determined from the emails. We reported this to the branch president and this should have been the end of it.

The branch president brought them in and had a long talk with them and all of that. Frankly, it didn't pertain to me so the only important thing is that they were getting the help they needed to get to repentance. The BP told me that they would convening a disciplinary council and I was like, that's not important for me to know.

Anyways, a few weeks later, the wife of a good friend of ours came over to stay and we helped her rent in the same hotel this couple was staying in. She needed to be there 3 weeks before her husband arrived and he asked me to watch over, not only that I sponsored her for her visa with the idea that I would be responsible for her. Anyways, this couple started bothering her and my friend wanted to know what was up- with the couple. I advised him of the behavior they were engaging in. At this point he was scared for his wife and asked me to go to his wife and ask her to call him right then and there so he could explain things to her.

Cool. I took my two kids over there to the place and went to talk to her to have her call her husband. They were there and I told the woman, look your husband needs to call you right now, it's an emergency and you need to be alone when you talk to him. They left and followed me out and started questioning me and the like. After several belligerent remarks ignored, they were becoming angry as to why I asked them to leave the room.

I was at the bottom of the stairs and they were at the top at this point, but I finally had enough and I knew I wouldn't lie. I told them look, it's not appropriate for you two to be spending time alone with a woman away from her husband.

The wife flipped her lid and came bounding down the stairs yelling at me about how bad of a member I was and how she was going to tell the branch president on me. I kept walking out of the hotel and by time I got out of it, the husband had gotten ahead of me, threw off his backpack, yelled "you fat piece of sh*t" and proceeded to take a swing at me. I had my 7 year old son in one hand and my 5 year old son in another. I walked around them and kept walking towards the road and these people kept right after us screaming all forms of obscenities and general scary my kids.

We finally got away and about an hour later, the branch president tried to contact me. I callled him back not expecting very much to deal with. I told him my side of the story and then he asked to meet me the next day and I said sure.

I didn't expect that I would be the bad guy, but I was labeled the bad guy. At the meeting the next day, I was told that I should do this and that and this. I was like ok. On Sunday she bore her testimony about how to be friendly to other people like she is and all a bunch of other hypocriticals things.

Anyways after f&t meeting I was called into the BP office to once again talk about all of this. I told them straight up that I was tired of the hypocrisy and they once again told me that I was in the wrong for warning my friend about this. I feel like I am completely in the right because if they had been behaving appropirately either before or after they went into the BP then none of this would have happen. I was upset that I was being blamed.

Fast forward to the next Wednesday, we worked at the same school and my kids were in school and this guy scared them badly. I took them by the hand and told them, don't worry about him, Daddy is here. The guy flipped out and said that I was lying to my kids. I said, wait a second, my kids wouldn't be scared of you if you and your wife hadn't done what you did. He said, I am going to tell the branch president on you. (You can stop laughing now)

Anyways, I have to talk to the branch president once again. He tells me that I need to apologize to this couple and I think about it. These people come into my home with their pornography, they insult me, they hurt my kids and then I need to apologize. I have no problem forgiving them and i have done it already, but I have nothing to apologize for.

But this wouldnt be an issue if I didn't feel like they have made me out to be the bad guy.

Anyways, the next day my wife talked to the branch president and he told her 3 lies about me. These were lies my wife knew weren't true. We decided not to go to church on Sunday.

On Sunday afternoon, the BP and EQ President stopped by the house. I confronted them about the lies, one of which involved the EQ President himself. Come to find out, the BP was caught out in the lie(I think he was just misinformed and passed it along as if it was the truth).

Fast forward to Friday of this week. The guy is getting let go from his work because of several issues and the BP wanted to talk to the principal about this. Since the BP thinks that I had something to do with it, I am paranoid enough to think that he will talk about me.

The altercation and the subsequent activities did not need to involve the branch presidency and the branch presidency doesn't need to be taking sides.

And this is where I stand today. My wife doesn't want to ever go back to this branch. I don't want to and this is bad for my family. I am at a loss.

I feel really bad because my wife was sustained a little over a month ago as primary president and now she doesn't even want to continue.

I feel like Satan has attacked my family and the church leadership helped Satan along.

I have no idea what to do. Any advice is appreciated.

Yiu need to get those people out of your life and your families life imediately; Nothing will take away the spirit from your home quicker than this filth and complete evil . GET AWAY FROM IT NOW!

[slipknot]

Moksha, jadams and everyone else. This has now been resolved. I stated in the first post about my confusion and my hurt and above all that I am lost. My wife and I are no longer lost.

We had a nice visitor today who told us that we didn't do anything wrong, that we are loved and that we are wanted back in Church. We were strengthened with words and a powerful prayer from someone who genuinely cares about us.

Heavenly Father gets things right not only in the end, but also sometimes in the middle.

[Elgama]

good to hear it Slipknot, my own issues within my branch were solved in a similar manner. I have decied to take the humble and patient approach to this.

You are a much newer member and think you are amazing

-Charley