Non uniform belief? Why?

[Misshalfway]

WOW! Now that's something ya don't hear everyday. :)

Should I say....take a number and flip my hair..... OR should I ask " how big is the diamond?"

BTW. I am very married. :) So perhaps I need to hang a sign saying "the position has been filled".

PM's would be cool. Just let me know.

[bytebear]

I am actually just teasing you a bit, bytebear. I sometimes can't help myself. :) I really did get the point you were making.

Ok, sometimes I am just dense. You rpoint makes much more sense after a second reading, and after a bowl of cheerios.

[Lstinthwrld]

WOW! Now that's something ya don't hear everyday. :)

Should I say....take a number and flip my hair..... OR should I ask " how big is the diamond?"

BTW. I am very married. :) So perhaps I need to hang a sign saying "the position has been filled".

PM's would be cool. Just let me know.

The diamond can be veeerrryyyy big.

[StuckinMiddle]

Something to consider . . .

"Why do 54 percent of us say that "there is only one true way to interpret the teachings" of our religion, while 43 percent say there is more than one way? The question is simply inapplicable to Mormons.

If you concentrate on the belief that only the general authorities are entitled to speak authoritatively, you give one answer; if you concentrate on the simple observation that in any class or quorum of Mormon adults you will find dozens of different views on many doctrines, including lots of folk doctrine and private speculations and conclusions, you'll give the other. Both answers are truthful. . ."

Orson Scott Card in Mormon Times, August 13, 2009

[Moksha]

John Doe wrote: I think PC is on to something here.

Because certain things have been taught differently over time.

Plus we all enter into full membership with different backgrounds and experiences. What we bring to the table ahead of time influences our perceptions and response.

My guess is that uniform homogeneity would not give us that vital spark needed for growth and development.

:)

[Snow]

Justice, it would seem as though LDS doctrine actually teaches that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are not separate personages. 2 Nephi 26:12 says, "And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the ETERNAL GOD." And 2 Nephi 11:7 "For if there be no Christ there be not God; af if there be not God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and HE IS CHRIST, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time."

Actually that says nothing about there being three separate personages or not being separate personages. Please read before you post.

What it says is that Christ is God. That is what we believe... God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost = equal one God.

[lattelady]

Snow, can YOU show ME one passage in the Bible or the Book of Mormon where it says the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are three separate Gods that are united only in purpose? **(by the way, I know that in John 17 it talks about the Father and Son being united in purpose, but it doesn't say they are separate Gods). Both the Bible and the Book of Mormon consistently say that there is only one God.

[bytebear]

Snow, can YOU show ME one passage in the Bible or the Book of Mormon where it says the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are three separate Gods that are united only in purpose? **(by the way, I know that in John 17 it talks about the Father and Son being united in purpose, but it doesn't say they are separate Gods). Both the Bible and the Book of Mormon consistently say that there is only one God.

What about Stephen's vision where he sees the Son at the right hand of the Father? Or the baptism where the Father's voice is heard from the heavens, as the Holy Ghost descends like a dove? Or what about when Jesus says he is not as great as the Father? I just cannot believe they are one in substance. But I can believe that three separate beings, constitute one God which the Bible labels the Godhead.

[Snow]

Snow, can YOU show ME one passage in the Bible or the Book of Mormon where it says the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are three separate Gods that are united only in purpose? **(by the way, I know that in John 17 it talks about the Father and Son being united in purpose, but it doesn't say they are separate Gods). Both the Bible and the Book of Mormon consistently say that there is only one God.

No - I don't think I can.

The Book of Mormon specifically says that God is one: "..And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." (2 Nephi 31:21)

Why?

[Guest]

WAIT WAIT... Time Out...

I'm trying to keep up with these posts and I'm starting to meld mix convolute one with the other...

Let's get back to the Non-Uniform Core Beliefs...

Okay, I admit, I haven't read past the first page and jumped to the last page because it was moving so fast I wanted to put my 2 cents in before I lose my pennies...

OP (I won't try to spell your handle from memory). You might be getting confused on what is Core Beliefs and what is Speculation Based on Core Beliefs... LDS Core Beliefs is uniform - all across the board. Now, some members may practice differently than others - for example, some would drink Coke while others do not at all (caffeine). Some will go to the beach on Sunday while others will not at all. But, Core Beliefs is uniform all throughout.

Okay, here's a start: THIS IS LDS CORE BELIEF. You can ask any LDS and you will get the same answer:

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Hope this helps!

[Guest]

To lattelady:

The LDS faith hinged on Joseph Smith's First Vision - where he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ standing side by side. So, yes, they are 2 separate beings. An LDS member cannot be LDS unless he believes Joseph Smith's First Vision truely happened. That's uniform core belief.

[pam]

Okay, I admit, I haven't read past the first page and jumped to the last page because it was moving so fast I wanted to put my 2 cents in before I lose my pennies...

I'd lend you a couple if you were to lose them.

[Guest]

Okay, on Holy Spirit... Ahh... this is different for everybody. And even for each person - it comes differently.

I'm going to provide another one of my very personal testimonies... man, I should compile them all and write a book. Or blog. Or whatever... because I know I've written about this here in this forum somewhere yonder yet I can't find it anymore...

Okay, this was very early on in my marriage - I was still very devoutly Catholic. Very. Devout.

Anyway, we had this huge fight. Really huge about something I can't even remember anymore. Anyway, I locked myself in a room crying my eyes out. I was sooo psyched out that I finally just landed on my knees and said (very very sincerely in desperation), "God, Help Me!". That's it. My very first fervent prayer that wasn't out of the Catholic Prayer Book and Novena Guide or Intercession of the Saints or whatever. And wouldn't you believe it but not even 5 minutes later, there was a knock on the door and it was the MISSIONARIES! My husband opened the door and told them I'm in no shape to meet with them and Elder Radmall (my own personal angel) said, yeah, he didn't understand what it was, but he was very impressed to come by to my house without an appointment so he just decided to come uninvited. I didn't meet with them, of course, but in a way, my prayers got answered! My husband and I calmed down enough to talk about what just happened and we were able to get over our altercation.

So, yeah, on the Holy Spirit - Elder Radmall felt it as a big impression - he said it was like a "nagging persistence". Just that one moment.

Okay, in one of these threads out there, I mentioned about how I was trying to read The Great Apostasy and I couldn't get past the first page. For years. Then one time, I fasted and prayed (after the Elder Radmall event, prayer became a big thing for me) and read the book and, not only did I finish the book in one sitting, a loud voice in my ear (you know like you hear your brain telling you something very loudly, I don't know how to explain it) impressed that what I read was the truth. And, in addition, certain images of my past flew through my brain one at a time like puzzle pieces clicking into place solidifying the truth of the matter and how I've had all these experiences that actually support that truth! So, that was my Holy Spirit experience.

And then, there's that time when as a very new convert to LDS, I was given the task to teach Relief Society (very very scary). I mean, how in the world can I teach something that I am still a newbie at to women, some of whom are in their 60's, who have been LDS all their lives? But, everytime I prepare the lesson and I stand up infront of those women one Sunday a month, I just feel this extreme confidence in myself and I actually teach like I know what I'm talking about - well, like a veteran. I can't explain how that happened either. It was just some kind of "aha" moment... like it was easy for me to understand what I just studied and it is very clear in my head what I was reading and what it meant. So, yeah, it's not just a nagging voice, or a feel-good feeling, or a cry-cry moment for me. It comes in different forms but everytime it is unmistakable - might not be something I recognize as it happens but when I look back (like teaching those lessons) I marvel at how in the world I accomplished something and recognize the hand of the spirit in it.

[john doe]

You LDS just aren't playing the game right. The point of this exercise was to point out how there is room in the LDS Church for disagreement on things that may possibly be true but are not doctrinal, thus proving that we can't agree on anything doctrinal. Get with it people!!

[Guest]

You LDS just aren't playing the game right. The point of this exercise was to point out how there is room in the LDS Church for disagreement on things that may possibly be true but are not doctrinal, thus proving that we can't agree on anything doctrinal. Get with it people!!

I disagree.

[pam]

I think that may have been a joke anatess.

[Guest]

I think that may have been a joke anatess.

LOL, Pam. I was joking too. He said we need to disagree more.

[Guest anon88]

inappropriate

Edited August 27, 2009 by Gwen