To Die Well Is To Die Willingly

[Snow]

My Father-in-Law is dying. For years he has been sick with emphysema - the result of smoking. He could have done things, medically, including an operation, to improve his condition and quality of life, but did not, choosing instead to live quietly with the time left to him, which turns out to have been like 5-7 years - of doing absolutely nothing, and being a big and selfish pain to his wife. He has deliberately avoided making any advance directive until about two weeks ago when his wife forced him to. He said no CPR (DNR - do not recessutate in the event of cardiac arrest) and said that he did not want heroic measurs but refused to specify what that meant. In conversation over the years he has made it clear that he didn't want to wind up on machines in the hospital or nursing home.

After all these he finally has some sort of triggering event, likely a virus, winds up in the hospital. In the space of a week he goes down hill and is placed on a ventilator, and naso-grastic feeding tube, then has surgery to place the g-tube directly into his stomach and a trach to place the vent tube directly into his throat. He is on a special hospital bed to prevent his skin from breaking down (pressure or bedsores), then he got an internal infection and was taken off the g-tube feedings and placed on intra-venous TPN (total parenteral nutrition). Last I saw him, he had eight IV bags hung full of all sorts of concoctions.

When the decision came to place him on the ventilator, a decision could have been made (he was out of it at the time and couldn't decide for himself) not to intubate and let him die. Now, a week later, still in ICU, he lingers on but could go momentarily. We spent the whole night at his side waiting for him to pass.

I am struck by a couple of things:

-Everyone should make their "advance directives" - formally, now. Be as explicit as possible. Say exactly what you want done or not done.

-If hospitalized, make sure the staff is completely aware of you directives, and make sure they get written in the chart. Remind them. Their inclination is always to treat.

-People say they don't want to be hooked up to machines with no quality of life, but when death is starring you in the eye and it is YOU, right here, right now, that's a different ballgame - at least for some.

-I think it is pointless to go through all such medical treatment, at least in this case - why do all that they did? Just so he can get healthy enough to be miserable for the next 6 months.

-In a larger sense, it is perverse and maybe immoral to spend so much time and money on the dying. 28% of the Medicare budget is spent of people during the last 30 days of their life. That's about 30 billion. That amount could be spent of the living - it could cover the medical care of 2/3rds of the uninsured or some other worthy cause.

Our thinking and our system is screwed up. It's geared towards helping those who can't be helped (and at great expense). The inevitable is inevitable and all this flailing about madly helps nothing, nothing in the big scheme of things.

-In a few minutes or hours, my father-in-law will know more about the plan of salvation or the after-life, than anyone on this message board - no matter how much people say "THEY KNOW" when what they really have is faith. Then again - maybe he won't find out anything - if this life is all there is.

[Marsha]

Snow,

My condolences to your wife and yourself. It is very difficult to standby and watch someone that you love pass away. No amount of "knowing" this is it prepares you for the finality of it all.

I agree 100% with you that if you know what you want done for or to you, should you ever become incapable of making such decisions, it needs to be well known now. Not just in a conversation with someone, put it on paper, have it notarized at the very least. Make a living will. Give copies of it to all members of your family. Discuss NOW what arrangements are to be made - don't leave the final decision up to someone else to guess what you wanted.

Good luck in the next few days/months Snow. Your wife is going to need your strength to carry on.... and of course the kids. Be that rock that you can be.

Love,

Marsha

[shanstress70]

I'm sorry about what you and your family are going through. Hopefully, all will go as smoothly as possible. This must be super-difficult for your wife.

I agree about how absurd it is to spend all that money on those who will be dead soon anyway. It's easy to see it in the big picture, but when it's hitting so close to home, it's not so cut and dry. I've been through this with two of my grandfathers in the last five years.

Thanks for giving me the kick in the butt to go take care of this not-so-fun stuff. I was all gung-ho about it while all the Terri Schiavo stuff was going on, but got lazy.

Shannon

[Snow]

Thanks Marsha and Shanstress,

He died about 40 minutes after my post. Wonder what he is finding out...

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Snow@Aug 7 2005, 07:38 PM

He died about 40 minutes after my post. Wonder what he is finding out...

Snow~

I am so sorry, that this had to happen, and that it hurt deep.

I agree that people need to make their wishes known to those who will have a say in their treatment when, or if, they can not be heard or understood.

I's hard enough to see someone you love in that state...without not knowing what to do.

Again, I am sorry

[StrawberryFields]

Snow and Mrs Snow,

I am sorry to hear of the passing of your father/father in law. It is not easy to lose someone you love.

[john doe]

My condolences on your loss. Hope all goes as well as can be expected during this time of grief and mourning.

[shanstress70]

Sorry about your loss. Your family is in my thoughts and prayers.

[pushka]

Condolences to you and your family Snow...

[Winnie G]

I’m sorry Snow I hope your wife and family feel comfort these next few days and weeks.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Snow@ Aug 7 2005, 10:43 AM

In a few minutes or hours, my father-in-law will know more about the plan of salvation or the after-life, than anyone on this message board - no matter how much people say "THEY KNOW" when what they really have is faith. Then again - maybe he won't find out anything - if this life is all there is.

What makes you think you father-in-law would somehow instantly “know” more than somebody else about anything simply because he went beyond the veil? I don’t think it works that way because I know our Father in heaven will not give us more knowledge than we are ready to receive, and some of us will never be ready to receive as much as some other people, not to mention all that our Father in heaven will freely give us once we show that we truly do want to know all of His will and will follow His counsel wherever it leads us.

But now is not the time to doubt, Snow. I hope you know that your father-in-law will receive every opportunity to know as much as he wants to know, because our Father in heaven and the other fathers of your father-in-law will never ever give up on him. It may take a long, long time, but our Father in heaven is very patient with us and He loves us all very much.

And btw, to hopefully settle this faith vs. knowledge thing once and for all, I ask you to consider how any of us can truly get to know anything if we can not rely upon an assurance from God telling us that such and such is true? And if you somehow think an assurance from God is more powerful or convincing in “heaven” than it is on Earth, I ask you to consider that heaven simply consists of other planets like this one and there never will be a time when God will somehow change your mind against your will. We must all accept what He assures us to be true, otherwise we never will know the truth… even if what we perceive to be God or an angel from “heaven” appears to us to tell us something.

[Guest lt]

Snow...

It breaks my heart to know the pain you and your family must be going through....Although we always say we will see them again, it

doesn't take all the pain away. I wish you and your wife and the rest of your family the best...We will keep you in our prayers.

Hugs and prayers

[Guest lt]

"What makes you think you father-in-law would somehow instantly “know” more than somebody else about anything simply because he went beyond the veil? "

Ray..................

Sometimes you do things at the wrong time..............

Couldnt you have posted your stupid reply at another time and topic page...GEESH............ ?

[Snow]

Thank you all for the kind thoughts and well-wishes.

Actually, I am not that emotionally involved. He didn't particularly like me and I didn't particularly like him. He was a selfish and unhappy man. He had good attributes to be sure - he was meticulous, good with his hands, had a sweetheart of a wife and a wonderful daughter. After that - I run out of kind things to say about him. His death is a blessing for him and for his wife - in my opinion - she may disagree.

One thing I have learned, it is the women in the world who are truly noble when it comes to attending to those in need and fullfilling a sense of duty. Though I visited him once and sometimes twice a day while he was in the hospital (it was easy since he didn't like me - I only had to stay a short time), and his brothers also came by, it was my mother-in-law, my wife, and aunt-in-law (his brother's wife) who were there the long hours, doing the right thing, comforting him during the tough going.

In as much as he was unreligious and antisocial (non-social really) there isn't anyone to call on to do the service. My mother-in-law goes to Calvery Chapel but doesn't want to call upon the minister. So, I will wind up doing the eulogy and grave dedication. I'll have my wife and mother-in-law write what they want said - they should have plenty nice to say, and I'll read it with a comment or two of my own.

Question - there's no problem with doing a grave dedication - since he's not LDS - is there? Do I need the bishop's permission?

[Snow]

Originally posted by Ray@Aug 8 2005, 03:47 PM

What makes you think you father-in-law would somehow instantly “know” more than somebody else about anything simply because he went beyond the veil? Bec

Because Ray - he will have gone beyond the veil, and found out for himself what's what about the existence of another side while you and I can only rely on the beliefs of others to tell us what they think the other side is like, despite any assurances that we think we might receive of the spirit, it is only a matter of faith.

...and if there is no other side of the veil , the he and us know exactly the same amoun about the afterlife.

[john doe]

Snow,

As far as I know, you don't need permission to do a grave dedication, or that the person in question needs to be a member of the church to get one. To me, it's sort of like a priesthood bleesing similar to blessing the sick, you don't need a leader's permission to perform it.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Snow@Aug 8 2005, 06:48 PM

Thank you all for the kind thoughts and well-wishes.

Actually, I am not that emotionally involved. He didn't particularly like me and I didn't particularly like him. He was a selfish and unhappy man. He had good attributes to be sure - he was meticulous, good with his hands, had a sweetheart of a wife and a wonderful daughter. After that - I run out of kind things to say about him. His death is a blessing for him and for his wife - in my opinion - she may disagree.

One thing I have learned, it is the women in the world who are truly noble when it comes to attending to those in need and fullfilling a sense of duty. Though I visited him once and sometimes twice a day while he was in the hospital (it was easy since he didn't like me - I only had to stay a short time), and his brothers also came by, it was my mother-in-law, my wife, and aunt-in-law (his brother's wife) who were there the long hours, doing the right thing, comforting him during the tough going.

In as much as he was unreligious and antisocial (non-social really) there isn't anyone to call on to do the service. My mother-in-law goes to Calvery Chapel but doesn't want to call upon the minister. So, I will wind up doing the eulogy and grave dedication. I'll have my wife and mother-in-law write what they want said - they should have plenty nice to say, and I'll read it with a comment or two of my own....

My condolences also, especially to your wife Snow.

My mother passed away almost 2 years ago and it can be kind of strange but for me during the time of the funeral and several months later I only wanted to hear good things about my mother. You realize that people in your life, even parents are not perfect and have faults but once they are immediately gone; you can't picture them in a negative way for even a second. My husband and mother were not the best of friends and sometimes husbands can say things that to them don't sound that bad but to the child of the deceased can be extremely hurtful. So my advice to you Snow for your wife's sake is to be extremely tactful during this time and a couple months done the road.

Take care!

M.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Maureen@Aug 9 2005, 02:57 PM

My condolences also, especially to your wife Snow.

My mother passed away almost 2 years ago and it can be kind of strange but for me during the time of the funeral and several months later I only wanted to hear good things about my mother. You realize that people in your life, even parents are not perfect and have faults but once they are immediately gone; you can't picture them in a negative way for even a second. My husband and mother were not the best of friends and sometimes husbands can say things that to them don't sound that bad but to the child of the deceased can be extremely hurtful. So my advice to you Snow for your wife's sake is to be extremely tactful during this time and a couple months done the road.

Take care!

M.

Great advice Maureen! :)

I wonder is Snow's affection will grow more for his father in law after he is gone.

I feel very blessed that my husband and I love the other one's family. I have always been close with my mother in law even to the point of calling her my mother on my husbands¡Ç side.

Best of Luck to you Snow with your eulogy. If you stumble for something nice to say just look at your wife and her mother and recall how they love him. I am sure that you will do a great job and make everyone proud. :)

[Ray]

Originally posted by Snow+Aug 8 2005, 07:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Aug 8 2005, 07:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Aug 8 2005, 03:47 PM

What makes you think you father-in-law would somehow instantly “know” more than somebody else about anything simply because he went beyond the veil? Bec

Because Ray - he will have gone beyond the veil, and found out for himself what's what about the existence of another side while you and I can only rely on the beliefs of others to tell us what they think the other side is like, despite any assurances that we think we might receive of the spirit, it is only a matter of faith.

...and if there is no other side of the veil , the he and us know exactly the same amoun about the afterlife.

Did you consider what I asked you to consider before making your remarks?

When we go beyond the veil we will simply be where there are some other people saying this and some other people saying that, so what do you suppose there will be about people or the things they say that will let you “know” they are speaking the truth? Are you maybe thinking that everyone will simply believe the people whose spirits glow brighter than their own?

I still say that it is only by Faith that we will ever know the truth, no matter who comes to us to tell us something and no matter in what form they may appear to us. Or in other words, even if an angel of light should appear to you and tell you something, you will only know that angel is speaking the truth and is an angel of the true and living God through the power of Faith.

[Ray]

And btw, to those who may think my timing is off by talking to Snow about such things at a time like this, I say there is no better time than the present to talk about things of such importance, even though I would probably be more tactful with Snow's wife, or with Snow if his father had just died, or I had sensed that Snow was fragile at this moment.

...and Ladies, I don't expect you to understand or approve of how Men speak to Men about death.

[Snow]

Originally posted by john doe@Aug 8 2005, 07:08 PM

Snow,

As far as I know, you don't need permission to do a grave dedication, or that the person in question needs to be a member of the church to get one. To me, it's sort of like a priesthood bleesing similar to blessing the sick, you don't need a leader's permission to perform it.

For waht it's worth John... my ordinance card didn't say anything about it but I checked with a counselor in the Bishopric and his PDA ordinance thing said to coordinate with the local priesthoood authority - so I did.

Thanks

[Snow]

Well... I did the service, at the graveside.

His wife goes to Calvary Chapel but she didn't want to ask the minister to do the service. My father-in-law had 3 brothers and a sister, and a daughter, my wife but they were all discombobulated to even speak and they didn't want to have just a Mortuary functionary (who I respect) who didn't know him do it. So I conducted, read letters of rememberance, delivered the eulogy, told a humorous version of his courtship with his future wife, quoted the Sanskrit:

Look To This Day

For it is life, the very life of life.

In its brief course lie all the realities and verities of existence,

The bliss of growth,

The splendor of action,

The glory of power . . .

For yesterday is but a dream,

And tomorrow is only a vision.

But today, well lived,

Makes every yesterday a dream of happiness

And every tomorrow a vision of hope.

Look well, therefore, to this day.

Then in a flash of extemporaneous inspiration, I talked about how in the annals of human history, when it came to intellectual traditions, the ancient Greeks were unparalleled. In Homer's masterpiece epic - The Illiad and the Odessy, Homer captured the the key facets of ancient Greek culture. One value that his epic articulated that of areté. Areté is best understood as "excellence" or "virtue" or striving to be the very best you can be or reaching your full human potential.

-Wide-ruling Agamemnon's virtue was that he was King, an unsurpassed ruler of men.

-Swift, god-like Achilles' areté was that he was the mightest warrior that ever-lived - by far; on the battlefield, he was like 40 wheat combines sweeping down the Canadian prairie.

-Helen of Troy's great virtue was beauty beyond that of any other woman on earth.

-Odysseus' areté was his cleverness. Even Odysseus's dog had areté - that of loyalty to his master, then returned after 20 years away.

My father-in-law also had areté, his excellence - his virtue... he was meticulous, meticulous in the way he organized his work bench and tools, meticulous in the way he parked his classic Corvette, meticulous in the way he taught me to fix the many things of his that I broke. He payed great attention to the way he ordered the details of his work and life... up to his last day alive when in his hospital bed, the channel changer had to be placed just so, on a folded towel in just the right spot, nothing less would do.

Then I played his favorite song on a boom box - Bobby McFerrin's Don't Worry - Be Happy! A song he would played over and over and over because of the way it made his grand-daughter (my oldest daughter) giggle when she was a baby.

Moment of silence for personal prayer and rememberance...

I then dedicated the grave - consecrated it as his final resting place, asking that it might be hallowed ground for kindred and friend where they could find peace and reassurance and pay tribute to those that had gone on before.

Whatever it was - I seeemed to capture an accurate representation of his life - the way he was, the way people remembered it. It was all very moving, for me, for the family, for all those in attendance. I now have a greater appreciations of his qualities...

[Guest lt]

Way...to go snow.

[StrawberryFields]

Snow,

I am not trying to make you feel uncomfortable in the least but I am so pleased that you were able to make this a memorable occasion for everyone involved. I never doubted you could do it for a moment. I especially liked the song.

I also loved this part...

"Whatever it was - I seeemed to capture an accurate representation of his life - the way he was, the way people remembered it. It was all very moving, for me, for the family, for all those in attendance. I now have a greater appreciations of his qualities... "

Snow, I am glad to know you. :)

[Ray]

That was wonderful, Snow. Well done!

But I just can't help but think about how sad it is that we sometimes don't truly know or appreciate people until their presence is not around us.