Sad

[bytor2112]

Back on topic for a moment.......

I e-mailed the RM on facebook and I didn't preach......but I hope I reminded him.

[Carl62]

The Osmonds are awesome, but sometimes I think they are a little too worldly in their music. Look at Marie, her daughter is now a Lesbian. Something is just wrong with that family for all the good that they have done.

Just my two cents brothers and sisters.

So let me see if I understand you right. You're judging the actions of Marie's daughter as a result of the so-called "wordly" music she plays? Wow!! Are we judgemental or what! Also, is the church a little too worldly in the music that they play at church dances?

[cougarfan]

So let me see if I understand you right. You're judging the actions of Marie's daughter as a result of the so-called "wordly" music she plays? Wow!! Are we judgemental or what! Also, is the church a little too worldly in the music that they play at church dances?

I think church dances are fine, but we just need to be careful. I've heard some pretty raunchy lyrics at church dances.

The Osmonds are great but they get carried away at times. Don't you think? And Marie's daughter, I'm just not sure what to think about the cause of all that. The brethren have said for years these things are a lifestyle choice and not anything genetic.

[MormonMama]

I don't think Marie's daughter being a lesbian has anything to do with the type of music Marie performs. It's almost as if you are saying that Marie is being punished for performing music that you deem is "too worldly".

1And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. (John 9: 1-3)

Marie has certainly made mistakes in her life. She is only human, after all. But to say that her daughter's choice to be a lesbian has anything to do with any of those mistakes is ridiculous.

Marie's daughter was born with homosexual feelings. Church leaders have acknowledge that either homosexual or heterosexual desires are something we are born with. Acting on those feelings is where choice comes in. Jessica's choice to act on her feelings or not has nothing whatsoever to do with the music her mother performs.

Now if her mother was constantly singing about how everyone should be a gay or lesbian, then I could see it. But her songs have never come close to anything like that.

You really should read all of the posts before you respond. It helps keep your feet on the ground and not in your mouth good Brother.

Thank You.

I don't feel his foot was in his mouth at all. He made a very valid point.

Whatever the issues here now, I sure do appreciate Utahrulzz and Cougarfan for their kind and respectful way of responding, even when they are disagreeing with another poster's comment....So much better than being harsh and derogatory in one's response towards another....

I haven't found that many of their posts have been very respectful, really. They are the ones who imply that others are somehow not living the gospel properly because of the length of their hair, presence of facial hair, etc.

I'm learning not judging others, for me, is really an issue of putting my trust in God and letting Him take care of His own sheep more than me calling the shots on how I think others should live; which, to me, crosses so many boundaries.

And yet this is exactly what the two posters you have mentioned have done in this thread.

Back on topic for a moment.......

I e-mailed the RM on facebook and I didn't preach......but I hope I reminded him.

I think that was a good thing you did. Sometimes just one person's influence, even if they never say anything about the gospel, can work miracles. I joined the church mostly because of a dear friend of me who just lived her life the way she knew was right and never mentioned the church or gospel to me unless I specifically asked about it.

Please let us know how it goes.

Edited September 16, 2009 by MormonMama

[Carl62]

The Osmonds are great but they get carried away at times. Don't you think?

I just saw them on a PBS special a few months ago and it was a Las Vegas concert they recently did. They all came out in suits and it looked like a Stake Presidency on stage. You call that getting "carried away"? It was so boring that I could hardly stay awake at certain times. Wow, so do you think the Mormon Tabernacle Choir got carried away when they did "Morning Has Broken" by Cat Stevens and not one of their hymns??

[Carl62]

Guideline, policy, or doctrine my heart told me to shave my beard and get in line with the general authorities in all matters. It felt like the Holy ghost was witnessing to me what I needed to do to be an acceptable priesthood holder.

"Get in line with the General Authorities in ALL matters?" So do you think you could sit in a room with the G.A.'s and play Rush's "All The World's A Stage" and they would like what it is you're playing?

[Snow]

You really should read all of the posts before you respond. It helps keep your feet on the ground and not in your mouth good Brother.

Thank You.

Let's be specific shall we. When you compare someone's struggles with porn to wearing a beard like half the prophets of this dispensation and I call that out as buffoonery - in what way is there a foot in my mouth?

[MormonMama]

So do you think you could sit in a room with the G.A.'s and play Rush's "All The World's A Stage" and they would like what it is you're playing?

How do you know that none of them listen to Rush?

Let's be specific shall we. When you compare someone's struggles with porn to wearing a beard like half the prophets of this dispensation and I call that out as buffoonery - in what way is there a foot in my mouth?

I agree with you Snow. Comparing two such things is a slap in the face to anyone who has struggled with porn addiction or has a loved one who has struggled with it.

I'd rather my husband wear a beard down to his navel than have trouble with porn any day.

[Snow]

I'd rather my husband wear a beard down to his navel than have trouble with porn any day.

Yes, but it's not just that. People may struggle with porn or whatever vice, but people don't struggle with facial hair as the poster pouted. Beards are not a moral issue. You don't struggle with them. You either don't want one and don't have one or you like em and have one. It's not a sin. It won't keep you out of heaven or out of the temple.

Someone may jump up and down and claim that it a sin since you are not being obedient but their is no commandment on the matter, the Church has simply given some counsel based on their desire to have members present a wholesome, clean image or what constitutes an ideal Mormon. That's okay but it's not a matter of right and wrong.

How's it go again? Judge not (unrighteously - or self-righteousl)....

[Guest Godless]

The Osmonds are awesome, but sometimes I think they are a little too worldly in their music. Look at Marie, her daughter is now a Lesbian. Something is just wrong with that family for all the good that they have done.

So one bad apple ruins the tree? If that's true, then my family is totally screwed.

[Jamie123]

The Bretheren have taught we are to avoid the appearance of evil. Beards do appear evil to many. One look through the First Presidency and Quorom of the 12 reveals none of these inspired and wonderful leaders wear any kind of facial hair. This is the standard LDS men must follow.

Or simply

Charles Manson = Facial Hair

Thomas S. Monson, Prophet, seer, revelator, the man whose example we should all follow = Zero Facial Hair

Thank You.

Ah...so I guess Honest Abe was the devil himself!

And as for Santa Claus....!!

Edited September 17, 2009 by Jamie123

[Jamie123]

The Bretheren have taught we are to avoid the appearance of evil. Beards do appear evil to many. One look through the First Presidency and Quorom of the 12 reveals none of these inspired and wonderful leaders wear any kind of facial hair. This is the standard LDS men must follow.

Or simply

Charles Manson = Facial Hair

Thomas S. Monson, Prophet, seer, revelator, the man whose example we should all follow = Zero Facial Hair

Thank You.

Just been doing a little bit of web-searching on the subject of wonderful leaders with beards. If the "appearance of evil" is to be avoided, a few old portraits are going to need touching up!

[P.S. I don't mean any disrespect to these men. I'm just pointing out that they weren't exactly without facial hair.]

Edited September 17, 2009 by Jamie123
Making it clear that I don't disrespect past LDS leaders.

[Jamie123]

Let's be specific shall we. When you compare someone's struggles with porn to wearing a beard like half the prophets of this dispensation and I call that out as buffoonery - in what way is there a foot in my mouth?

The safest thing is not to do anything at all, just in case someone else thinks it's evil. After all, everyone knows the Internet is full of pornography, so what are we doing using it? That's an "appearance of evil" if ever there was one.

I kid you not....

"The earliest e-commerce applications were those associated with pornographers; indeed a number of commentators have opined that the demands made upon the Internet by pornographers have speeded up the development of a number of technologies such as streaming video and the deployment of new business models."

Darrel Ince, "Developing Distributed and E-commerce Applications", Pearson, 2004.

[Kawazu]

So one bad apple ruins the tree? If that's true, then my family is totally screwed.

*Laugh button?*

[anaram]

The Bretheren have taught we are to avoid the appearance of evil. Beards do appear evil to many. One look through the First Presidency and Quorom of the 12 reveals none of these inspired and wonderful leaders wear any kind of facial hair. This is the standard LDS men must follow.

Or simply

Charles Manson = Facial Hair

Thomas S. Monson, Prophet, seer, revelator, the man whose example we should all follow = Zero Facial Hair

Thank You.

Wow! Are you serious? Not having a beard is more of a corporate image rather than a spiritual one. I know a lot of folks with beards who do not look "evil" and quite a few without that are/were evil (Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, OJ...). Edited September 17, 2009 by anaram
change style

[Snow]

The Osmonds are awesome, but sometimes I think they are a little too worldly in their music. Look at Marie, her daughter is now a Lesbian. Something is just wrong with that family for all the good that they have done.

Just my two cents brothers and sisters.

Oh give us a break. Listening to Osmond music causes homosexuality??????????

What a crock. Buy a clue. Healthy families often have gay children and unhealthy families may not. It's a sad pity that members of the Church of Jesus Christ are sometimes those with the worst unrighteous judgement.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Snow

[pam]

Or simply

Charles Manson = Facial Hair

Thomas S. Monson, Prophet, seer, revelator, the man whose example we should all follow = Zero Facial Hair

Thank You.

I honestly can't believe we are using the two as comparisons concerning good and evil..and basing it all on facial hair? Come on...give me a break.

[Dravin]

Oh give us a break. Listening to Osmond music causes homosexuality??????????

What a crock. Buy a clue. Healthy families often have gay children and unhealthy families may not. It's a sad pity that members of the Church of Jesus Christ are sometimes those with the worst unrighteous judgement.

Just wait until a GA has an outed homosexual child (it may already be the case but I'm not inclined to look honestly, not really my business) and Cougar's head explodes.

[Snow]

Just wait until a GA has an outed homosexual child (it may already be the case but I'm not inclined to look honestly, not really my business) and Cougar's head explodes.

Undoubtedly there are gay children of General Authorities but thankfully they seem to have been raised correctly enough that they are discrete and do not seek to publicly raise a ruckus.

What is the old rule? The wildest kid in the ward is the Bishop's kid and the wildest kid in the stake is the Stake President's kid... certainly not accurate but happened often enough (the supposition being that such calling required dad to be away from his family) that such a stereotype existed - at least in SLC when I was growing up. As it so happens, my old bishop, now President, has a gay child. It was a wonderful and tight knit family with a proper upbringing. People have sexual orientations that have nothing to do with the way there are raised. And the gay child, by the way, is a wonderful human being.

[ploomf]

*Grumble mumble grumble* Young kids today with their rock and roll and long hair and beards, running wild *grumble grumble grumble* You kids stay off my lawn! (shakes cane wildly)

Ok seriously though, beards equal evil? I have a picture of Jesus Christ that I'm looking at right now and He has a beard in it. Gee how about that.

[Dravin]

that such a stereotype existed - at least in SLC when I was growing up.

It goes outside SLC, in fact my understanding is you run into the same stereotype in other denominations. Actually I could even see it being worse a minister serves longer than a Bishop (though it always seems to be the teenagers and a Bishop's or Stake President's services compared to the length of those years is pretty significant), no break as a scout leader for him.

People have sexual orientations that have nothing to do with the way there are raised. And the gay child, by the way, is a wonderful human being.

I agree whole heartedly.

[pam]

*Grumble mumble grumble* Young kids today with their rock and roll and long hair and beards, running wild *grumble grumble grumble* You kids stay off my lawn! (shakes cane wildly)

Ok seriously though, beards equal evil? I have a picture of Jesus Christ that I'm looking at right now and He has a beard in it. Gee how about that.

Other than Joseph Smith..all the prophets up to David O. McKay had beards.

[Dravin]

Other than Joseph Smith..all the prophets up to David O. McKay had beards.

I blame Star Trek for the whole beards are evil meme.

/me grumbles something about transporter accidents and evil empires.

[ploomf]

Other than Joseph Smith..all the prophets up to David O. McKay had beards.

Say it isn't so pam!!!! Not beards!!! Oh the humanity!!! You know this has been bugging me though. I think snow asked it earlier but I really want to know, how can you struggle with having a beard? It's just hair that happens to be on your face instead of on your head. And to the best of my knowledge a beard has never hurt anyone. I'm pretty sure I've never heard the anchor for my local news say something like, beard goes on shooting rampage in shopping mall, story at five. So yeah, how can you struggle with a beard? Really?

[Dravin]

I say we need to keep the beard love coming!