Sad

[bytor2112]

I found the missionaries that helped to reactivate me after 21 years on Facebook. I was saddened to see a pic of one of the young men with a cigarette in his mouth, long hair and beard. I saw several other pics with cig in mouth or hand.

Really, really bummed.

Edited September 14, 2009 by bytor2112

[pam]

Think of the good he did though with you. You can be grateful and saddened at the same time.

[MormonMama]

I agree with Pam. It's sad for him, but who knows how many people he helped to convert over the course of his mission?

And the prophets have promised us that if we "raise up a child in the way he should go," that he will not depart from those teachings. A GA (and forgive me, I can't remember which one at the moment) further expounded on that scripture, saying that wayward children would return someday, if they had been raised properly. There is a pretty good chance that this wayward son will remember the teachings of the gospel and return to the fold one day. Pray for him, and help him on his way.

[Dove]

Hello, Bytor,

I'm sorry to hear this. It is sad!

Well, maybe it's your turn to love and serve this particular missionary? Can you reach out to him? Develop a trust where maybe, by your example and love, show him what he showed you years ago?

In all likelihood, events/people/things have led him away from the church. Sure smoking is bad; however, combined with the long hair and beard, he seems to have really rebelled/chosen an alternate lifestyle, maybe as a reaction to a negative occurrence in his life.

Ours is not to judge.....I say this gratefully, because only Father knows what has caused him to choose to turn away. Ours is to proffer our arms in love, example, and invitation for the joy that comes from following our Saviour....

I would suggest to approach him in a low key way, with a lot of acceptance and unconditional love....Maybe he will come to trust you and open up as to why he's choosing this lifestyle. Pray for the Spirit and His guidance. Wouldn't it be a beautiful cycle if by your influence, he is lead back?

[MormonMama]

Well, maybe it's your turn to love and serve this particular missionary? Can you reach out to him? Develop a trust where maybe, by your example and love, show him what he showed you years ago?

I would suggest to approach him in a low key way, with a lot of acceptance and unconditional love....Maybe he will come to trust you and open up as to why he's choosing this lifestyle. Pray for the Spirit and His guidance. Wouldn't it be a beautiful cycle if by your influence, he is lead back?

I think this is a great idea. Keep it low-key and non-judgmental.

I wish I could remember the names of the first missionaries who taught me so many years ago. I didn't join the church at that time, but their teachings stayed with me for years and helped prompt me to join later on. I'd love to be able to tell them that.

[Snow]

Don't be alarmed. It's part of a disguise used to infiltrate the Bohemian Grove conspiracy.

It's a Church calling: Stake Infiltrator.

[pam]

Don't be alarmed. It's part of a disguise used to infiltrate the Bohemian Grove conspiracy.

It's a Church calling: Stake Infiltrator.

Oh my..now THAT is funny.

[Snow]

I found the missionaries that helped to reactivate me after 21 years on Facebook. I was saddened to see a pic of one of the young men with a cigarette in his mouth, long hair and beard. I saw several other pics with cig in mouth or hand.

Really, really bummed.

How old is the brother now bytor?

[Traveler]

Interesting how things turn out. On my mission the best and worse (I thought) converts were both baptized the same week. For years I bragged about the one I thought was the best and never said a word about the other. I felt he should not have been baptized and I felt bad that my companion talked me into it. I thought my companion just wanted numbers at the time.

Interesting enough many years later I ran into both converts during the same month. The one that I thought was the best had drifted away and was unrecognizable as LDS. We had a long sad talk and since has sort of come back to the fold. But the other. What a difference. He was a bishop. Not that being a bishop is so important but I did not think we could live the gospel standards.

Bottom line is that every person takes their own journey and weaves a tapestry of repentance, sacrifice and service or serving selfish desires, wants or orientations. We tend to judge things from the surface that in most cases does not reflect the sole deep inside each individual. I am convinced that many are going to be very surprised when we find out who it is that loves G-d and repented. Sometimes it is the person that has to most to repent of that finds the greatest joy in doing it.

The Traveler

[Carl62]

I found the missionaries that helped to reactivate me after 21 years on Facebook. I was saddened to see a pic of one of the young men with a cigarette in his mouth, long hair and beard. I saw several other pics with cig in mouth or hand.

Really, really bummed.

Is there any way you can contact this former missionary as a friend and find out how he's doing and how he feels in regards to the church? I'd be waaay more worried about issues such as smoking, drinking, doing drugs or hanging out with a bad crowd as opposed to hair length. Heck, just up until a few months ago when I went back to my clean shaven BYU look, I has shoulder length hair and a beard for a whole year (the women liked it!lol). No big deal. Just wanted to try something different. Again, what I'd be a lot more concerned over is if there is something way worse going on in regards to the wrong road that your friend is heading down with the start of smoking (which is the only thing that you know of as of now) and hope that it doesn't escalate into even more worse things. I would really work to try and get together with your former missionary friend and see if everything is o.k. and see if there's any way you can help to get him reactivated in the church. Something as stupid as a mere hairstyle can take a half hour to fix whereas things like smoking, drinking and drugs may lead to possible addictions which could take well over half a lifetime to turn around, if not longer. Our prayers are with your missionary friend. Let us know how it goes when you contact him.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Carl62

[Grandmakabipbip]

It is hard to see those who have such great promise squander some of it on the world, lost. But until they die, they have time to repent and who knows what the Lord will bring into their lives to turn them around...

Prayer is a very good suggestion, the more the better.

[Dove]

Is there any way you can contact this former missionary as a friend and find out how he's doing and how he feels in regards to the church? I'd be waaay more worried about issues such as smoking, drinking, doing drugs or hanging out with a bad crowd as opposed to hair length. Heck, just up until a few months ago when I went back to my clean shaven BYU look, I has shoulder length hair and a beard for a whole year (the women liked it!lol). No big deal. Just wanted to try something different. Again, what I'd be a lot more concerned over is if there is something way worse going on in regards to the wrong road that your friend is heading down with the start of smoking (which is the only thing that you know of as of now) and hope that it doesn't escalate into even more worse things. I would really work to try and get together with your former missionary friend and see if everything is o.k. and see if there's any way you can help to get him reactivated in the church. Something as stupid as a mere hairstyle can take a half hour to fix whereas things like smoking, drinking and drugs may lead to possible addictions which could take well over half a lifetime to turn around, if not longer. Our prayers are with your missionary friend. Let us know how it goes when you contact him.

What I was trying to say about the hair, beard and smoking combined, is that it is quite a statement, especially in a prominently mormon community, or amongst a mormon community as a minority.

BTW, I smoke, and I have a brother who has worn a beard and long hair for years, and who strongly believes in the gospel. My non LDS husband likes to wear a beard, and I am just fine with that......

A great deal why I started smoking again (regrettably so) was to make a statement to the LDS people who I perceived as so unkind....I wanted to distance myself from the stigma of being LDS in Utah....

I was only saying that the picture combined seems to present quite a rebellion against the typical LDS values.

I think it's unfair to presume anything about a person's heart. While a "mere hairstyle" may be "stupid" to you, it may be just one more way for him to distance himself from being LDS......

[Jamie123]

I found the missionaries that helped to reactivate me after 21 years on Facebook. I was saddened to see a pic of one of the young men with a cigarette in his mouth, long hair and beard. I saw several other pics with cig in mouth or hand.

Really, really bummed.

I'm not sure why his having a beard is so terribly bad, and as for the cigarette....well, I suppose it could have been a fake one!

Seriously though, I've noticed that many of the elders who've tried to convert me over the years are adamant that they know that "it" (*) is true, and demand that all further discussion be based on this assumption. (Since I don't know any such thing myself, this often makes conversation rather difficult.) I can imagine that seeing these guys going against what they say they "know is true" must be a bit of a shock.

Having said that, I agree with Dove that it's not ours to be judgmental. Regardless of whether their message is "true" or not, these so-called "elders" are really only kids at the beginning of their own spiritual journey. I know that if at the tender age of 19 I had been forced to endure 2 years of what these young men suffer, I'd have been more than inclined to "break out" at the end of it!

(*) "It" = "JS was a prophet, Mr. Monson is a living prophet, Christ's original Church has been restored as the COJCOLDS, the BOM is a true record of ancient America, etc..."

Edited September 14, 2009 by Jamie123
Missing word

[Carl62]

What I was trying to say about the hair, beard and smoking combined, is that it is quite a statement, especially in a prominently mormon community, or amongst a mormon community as a minority.

BTW, I smoke, and I have a brother who has worn a beard and long hair for years, and who strongly believes in the gospel. My non LDS husband likes to wear a beard, and I am just fine with that......

A great deal why I started smoking again (regrettably so) was to make a statement to the LDS people who I perceived as so unkind....I wanted to distance myself from the stigma of being LDS in Utah....

I was only saying that the picture combined seems to present quite a rebellion against the typical LDS values.

I think it's unfair to presume anything about a person's heart. While a "mere hairstyle" may be "stupid" to you, it may be just one more way for him to distance himself from being LDS......

Wow, you're acting as if I was responding to your first post! I'm gonna be honest with you and that is I didn't even read your post until AFTER you responded to mine, so relax! The only post I read prior to my posting was bytor's and I was merely responding to his since he put the cigarettes back to back with the long hair in his sentence and for some LDS yes, they are almost one and the same as far as "disobedience" in the church goes and that's why I was kinda trying to downplay it a bit. Just like you say about not presuming anything about a person's heart, don't presume anything about a persons post, o.k.? Thanks.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Carl62

[Maya]

You can pay back by activating him!

[FunkyTown]

Wow... I'm really sorry to hear that Bytor.

It's strange when the people who were responsible for helping forge you in to who you are have turned around and left what they knew to be true.

I say get in contact with him and talk to him. Don't do it with the intention of reactivating him. He'll notice that and know what you're doing. Just show love to him.

[Elphaba]

That really sucks Bytor. I can see why that would be so upsetting to you.

Elph

[NeuroTypical]

I've experienced stuff like this in the past. The amount of hurt I experience is proportional to the unrealistic expectations or hero status I've assigned some poor fallible mortal like me.

Our mortal probation makes such stories inevitable.

Also, there is actually a fair chance that the story that goes along with those pictures might not be as tragic and sad as we're all just assuming.

LM

[bytor2112]

How old is the brother now bytor?

Probably 25.

[Dove]

Wow, you're acting as if I was responding to your first post! I'm gonna be honest with you and that is I didn't even read your post until AFTER you responded to mine, so relax! The only post I read prior to my posting was bytor's and I was merely responding to his since he put the cigarettes back to back with the long hair in his sentence and for some LDS yes, they are almost one and the same as far as "disobedience" in the church goes and that's why I was kinda trying to downplay it a bit. Just like you say about not presuming anything about a person's heart, don't presume anything about a persons post, o.k.? Thanks.

Yikes, you sure seem quick to escalate posting.....

I don't need to relax. I wasn't attacking you, just defending as to what I assumed was your response to my post.....which wasn't a far jump. I also assume people read posts before theirs to get into the loop of the conversation. I was wrong.....

I don't disagree that I took your post as aimed at me, when it came right after what I had written. I could work on not taking other posts personally.

However, your response was rather angry, it bit! It seems you wrote it more in a reactionary stance towards what I had just written rather than kindly considering what impact your words would make...If this is so, it's easy to do. It's always harder to do the kinder thing, imo

It is possible to get your point across in kinder tones/wording

[Snow]

Probably 25.

Neah, Durn kids - can't learn nothing.

He may grow up one day and figure it all out.

[bytor2112]

Neah, Durn kids - can't learn nothing.

He may grow up one day and figure it all out.

I hope so......saw shades of myself in those pics, absent from church for 21 years.

[Hemidakota]

You can pay back by activating him!

Exactly...

[MormonMama]

Neah, Durn kids - can't learn nothing.

He may grow up one day and figure it all out.

I didn't figure it out until I was in my mid 20's with two kids. It was having kids that made me want something better than what we had. So he may yet turn around, especially if he does not yet have a family of his own to consider.

[Guest Utahrulzz]

I'm not sure why his having a beard is so terribly bad,"

The Bretheren have taught we are to avoid the appearance of evil. Beards do appear evil to many. One look through the First Presidency and Quorom of the 12 reveals none of these inspired and wonderful leaders wear any kind of facial hair. This is the standard LDS men must follow.

Or simply

Charles Manson = Facial Hair

Thomas S. Monson, Prophet, seer, revelator, the man whose example we should all follow = Zero Facial Hair

Thank You.