Lstinthwrld Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I agree. but I disagree with the premise that one MUST have credentials in order to know the things of God. The Bible is replete with examples to the contrary.I don't believe you must have credentials to know god or godly things. In my case it hurt my faith rather than helping it. I think if you are going to claim any type of authority whether it be to preach or council or any type of authority this is where you need training which by nature leads to credentials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lstinthwrld Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Here's the deal. One way or another you will know the truth. You will stand before Christ and the Judgment bar, and you will know. But, for you to gain the blessings now as opposed to later (or never), you have to put out a spiritual effort. You must pray, with faith (your biggest stumbling block), to receive an answer from God. I wish it was as easy to accept as brainwashing. I could just drop my testimony and not accept the truth I have in my heart. But, darn it, that spiritual witness keeps coming back, and reminding me that this is God's truth, So, let the blessings come now. Don't wait.How do you know with enough certainty to preach this. Make me believe. I mean I know my car is a white dodge. And I can show you. You can know this too. I know my carpet is green. I can show you. You can know this too. I believe my daughter is the most beautiful girl in the world. I can show her to you. But you may not believe this to. Especially if you have a daughter of your own. Get what i am trying to say here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 How do you know with enough certainty to preach this. Make me believe. I mean I know my car is a white dodge. And I can show you. You can know this too. I know my carpet is green. I can show you. You can know this too. I believe my daughter is the most beautiful girl in the world. I can show her to you. But you may not believe this to. Especially if you have a daughter of your own. Get what i am trying to say here?Because I recognize the Holy Ghost, and as much as I would like to deny my testimony, He continues to witness to me the truth. So, I just know. and I know you can know too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Lost, I can appreciate that you take religion and God seriously. You pursued understanding with rigor. At this point you declare what appears to be agnosticism (God is unknowable). And yet, you do continue to pry and poke. Your greatest disagreement seems to be not so much against faith, but certainty. How can folk be so sure, when most have expended less spiritual energy? Perhaps they've settled for spiritual impressions, declaring them certitudes? I can speak for myself. My family was "unchurched," but I started going on the bus when I was 10. Within a couple of months I said the sinner's prayer, and accepted Christ into my heart. He forgave my sins. I felt it. I knew it. And, yes, the Bible confirmed this. Three years later, at Bible camp, I experienced speaking in tongues, and received the baptism, or fullness, of the Holy Spirit. Again, this was a very spiritual, mystical experience...but one confirmed to me by the strength and good directions I felt inside me. Over time I did see a greater capacity within me to live out the fruits of the Spirit (Love, joy, peace...) For the next 15 years I lived my merry Christian life, volunteered for Sunday School teacher, Bible camp counselor, and eventually ended up teaching elementary school at a mission school in Korea. I also volunteered to teach Korean university students English Bible. After three years, I felt that God was calling me to consider my work as a mission, not simply a volunteering or helping out. I continued for three more years at it, and then felt called to seminary (graduate theological training). While in school, I felt the call to prison chaplaincy, and have been at it now for 11 years. I can't prove any of those feelings, callings, baptisms or infillings of the Spirit, or even the conviction as a 10 year old, to accept Christ, were really from God. I can't prove it to you. But, it is proved within me. Not scientifically, or even objectively. But I guess I know what I know. May God yet reveal himself to you in a way that is authentic, powerful, and yet appropriate. Keep seeking, keep asking, keep prodding and poking...it makes the site more interesting, if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lstinthwrld Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Lost, I can appreciate that you take religion and God seriously. You pursued understanding with rigor. At this point you declare what appears to be agnosticism (God is unknowable). And yet, you do continue to pry and poke.Your greatest disagreement seems to be not so much against faith, but certainty. How can folk be so sure, when most have expended less spiritual energy? Perhaps they've settled for spiritual impressions, declaring them certitudes?I can speak for myself. My family was "unchurched," but I started going on the bus when I was 10. Within a couple of months I said the sinner's prayer, and accepted Christ into my heart. He forgave my sins. I felt it. I knew it. And, yes, the Bible confirmed this. Three years later, at Bible camp, I experienced speaking in tongues, and received the baptism, or fullness, of the Holy Spirit. Again, this was a very spiritual, mystical experience...but one confirmed to me by the strength and good directions I felt inside me. Over time I did see a greater capacity within me to live out the fruits of the Spirit (Love, joy, peace...)For the next 15 years I lived my merry Christian life, volunteered for Sunday School teacher, Bible camp counselor, and eventually ended up teaching elementary school at a mission school in Korea. I also volunteered to teach Korean university students English Bible. After three years, I felt that God was calling me to consider my work as a mission, not simply a volunteering or helping out. I continued for three more years at it, and then felt called to seminary (graduate theological training). While in school, I felt the call to prison chaplaincy, and have been at it now for 11 years.I can't prove any of those feelings, callings, baptisms or infillings of the Spirit, or even the conviction as a 10 year old, to accept Christ, were really from God. I can't prove it to you. But, it is proved within me. Not scientifically, or even objectively. But I guess I know what I know.May God yet reveal himself to you in a way that is authentic, powerful, and yet appropriate. Keep seeking, keep asking, keep prodding and poking...it makes the site more interesting, if nothing else.Thank you very much for sharing. I am truly happy for you and maybe a little envious. You know how much virtual paper this would have saved to post this about 50 posts ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 You know how much virtual paper this would have saved to post this about 50 posts ago? Yes...but it took 50 posts for me to flesh out the underlying stream of this conversation. Rich conversations can be like that...ruffling the surface waters, slowly getting below, and then that lucky plunge where some true insight comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 How so?It's all relative, my friend. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Christians in general can not even agree how to believe in christ much less convert the world. World peace by christianity...that is a good one funny.I know the LDS church isn't the christian world at large. Hows the reconciliation with the rlds coming along.There is a saying about keeping you back yard clean before you criticize your neighbors property.How about all the christians who criticize the government for the war or the buddhists or the atheists or the...etc etc...if it were a prerequisite for anyone who criticizes the government for its method of governing to leave the country America would be the least populated piece of property in the world. Freedom of speech and opinion is written in the founding documentation of this great country and it is irresponsible for you to even suggest that it does not extend to everyone all the time.Again, egotistical of you to falsely accuse me of being irresponsible! Don't put words in my mouth, ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lstinthwrld Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Yes...but it took 50 posts for me to flesh out the underlying stream of this conversation. Rich conversations can be like that...ruffling the surface waters, slowly getting below, and then that lucky plunge where some true insight comes. Thank you. I would attend one of you services I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lstinthwrld Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Again, egotistical of you to falsely accuse me of being irresponsible! Don't put words in my mouth, ok?What words did I put in your mouth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 What words did I put in your mouth?You're projecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lstinthwrld Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 You're projecting.I don't understand what you are saying with I am projecting. If I applied something to you that you did not say I am sorry I hate it when people do that to me and I try not to do it to anyone else. Once again sorry. Please tell me what words I put in your mouth. I don't like to repeat mistakes and would like to learn from this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I don't understand what you are saying with I am projecting. If I applied something to you that you did not say I am sorry I hate it when people do that to me and I try not to do it to anyone else. Once again sorry. Please tell me what words I put in your mouth. I don't like to repeat mistakes and would like to learn from this one.I have an idea...let's forget the whole thing! Please won't you please be my neighbor. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lstinthwrld Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I have an idea...let's forget the whole thing! Please won't you please be my neighbor. :)Gladly just dont call me Fred Rodgers:bouncing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Gladly just dont call me Fred Rodgers:bouncing:Well phooey! You just ain't no fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lstinthwrld Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Well phooey! You just ain't no fun! What you didn't see the big bouncy ball? Fun is in my dna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 What you didn't see the big bouncy ball? Fun is in my dna.I did...and it was fun...do it again! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lstinthwrld Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I did...and it was fun...do it again! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 May I quote you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Fine pm your e-mail and i will send you my credentials. Do not accuse me of lying when you have no basis for this accusation. I am after what I say i am just because I cant come to it like you does not mean I am lying. PM me your e-mail i will send you my credentials as well as my spiritual fathers e-mail the seminary contact whatever you like. How dare you accuse me of lying. Christian love on display right here.Just send it on here to me. I'm more than happy to apologize if the proof you provide is adequate. I will say that you are who you say you are.Granted, I do plan on checking out your certifications. One thing I like to do as an amateur is expose false news stories. I would find this to be very similar. Just include your credentials and a picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lstinthwrld Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 · Hidden Hidden Just send it on here to me. I'm more than happy to apologize if the proof you provide is adequate. I will say that you are who you say you are.Granted, I do plan on checking out your certifications. One thing I like to do as an amateur is expose false news stories. I would find this to be very similar. Just include your credentials and a picture.Just send me you e-mail jack ass. Link to comment
Kawazu Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Just send me you e-mail jack ass.Where is the serenity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Just send me you e-mail jack ass.The great thing about the email system on here is that you can just take screenshots of your credentials and paste them in to the email. Just as easy as sending me an email directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lstinthwrld Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) The great thing about the email system on here is that you can just take screenshots of your credentials and paste them in to the email. Just as easy as sending me an email directly.Some of these documents have personal information and with a picture included you have enough for identity theft. You have already called me a liar without cause I have no trust in your moral character. I want a commitment of personal information from you as well. I will say that my spiritual father is the Metropolitan of the OCA. My guide and mentor was a ranking priest at the seminary I went to St. Innocent of Alaska seminary as well as the community associated with it. I never took tonsure or ordination because I was already falling out of faith. I didn't want to be a hypocrite and tell people they should believe totally if I didn't. The two monasteries I lived in are in California one in the bay area one in northern California.The minister credential is through a semi charismatic church organization based in the state I live in with my chaplaincy in the same organization before I went on my spiritual quest that took me through Buddhism's many tradition (Mahayana and Theravada) on to orthodoxy. I made some Taoist studies with an old world Taoist who had just obtained rank when the cultural revolution in China started and he came to America. The orthodox endeavor was my last in organized religion but I have continued my studies at the university level ever since. I have a need to know.Want personal details send me your e-mail or phone number lets talk. Edited September 16, 2009 by Lstinthwrld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I stand by my assessment that you are lying about who you are. You were the one to state you are willing to produce evidence. If you are, I invite you to produce it. If you are unwilling, I invite you to not state credentials you can not prove. If you're saying that Bishop Jonah, the Metropolitan of the OCA who was elected back in 2008 had something to do with your training, your credentials will have no problems being validated: A couple of quick calls and I am more than willing to get on here and tell the world about your credentials. Looking up James Paffhausen, can you tell me if you spent time with him at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley or did he train you during his time in Russia? Or was it when the newly-called Archimandrite Fr. Jonah took over as auxiliary bishop and chancellor of the Diocese of the South?I suspect your answer will be that he is your spiritual father and that you agree with him despite never having met the man, but if he is more than that and actually a part of your credentials, he makes it remarkably easy to check out your background.It's still an 'Appeal to Authority' logical fallacy, but I am more than willing to admit I was wrong.Some of these documents have personal information and with a picture included you have enough for identity theft. You have already called me a liar without cause I have no trust in your moral character. I want a commitment of personal information from you as well. I will say that my spiritual father is the Metropolitan of the OCA. My guide and mentor was a ranking priest at the seminary I went to St. Innocent of Alaska seminary as well as the community associated with it. I never took tonsure or ordination because I was already falling out of faith. I didn't want to be a hypocrite and tell people they should believe totally if I didn't. The two monasteries I lived in are in California one in the bay area one in northern California.The minister credential is through a semi charismatic church organization based in the state I live in with my chaplaincy in the same organization before I went on my spiritual quest that took me through Buddhism's many tradition (Mahayana and Theravada) on to orthodoxy. I made some Taoist studies with an old world Taoist who had just obtained rank when the cultural revolution in China started and he came to America. The orthodox endeavor was my last in organized religion but I have continued my studies at the university level ever since. I have a need to know.Want personal details send me your e-mail or phone number lets talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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