Self Proclaming GAY MORMONS

[sixpacktr]

thank you Anatess! I just got done reading that book (again) and am now on 'Speaker for the Dead'.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread. I give you back your keys...

[Guest]

We disagree.

Your sense of being "true" to yourself is different from mine. Being promiscuous, a cheat and a premeditated murderer is a choice. I don't believe you are born that way. I see no comparison.

Bini, I'm surprised to find myself on the different side of the coin as you. Yes, being promiscuous, a cheat, and a premeditated murderer is a choice - but the psychological wiring in the brain that causes those actions may very well be endowed at birth.

But, Bini, we both know that the sin is not being homosexual. The sin is HAVING SEX with the same gender. So, for you to say your cousin engaging in sexual relationships with the same gender is just being true to himself is misguided. That is, if you subscribe to LDS teachings.

How many people are "born" cliptomaniac? How many people are born with a sweet tooth and genetics susceiptible to diabetes? By your definition of being true to themselves, then these people have no choice but to steal, have no choice but to load up with sugar. By extension, obese people have no choice but to eat until their heart fails.

Let's put this closer to home for you. Men are born with the psychological wiring to be indescriminate with sexual partners. Your husband is born with the desire to have sex with more than one woman without emotional entanglements. By your definition of being true to himself - then you should allow him to have multiple sexual partners. Why are you against polygamy then?

I hope you will think about this before dismissing it as a disagreeable point.

[Vort]

Bini, I'm surprised to find myself on the different side of the coin as you. Yes, being promiscuous, a cheat, and a premeditated murderer is a choice - but the psychological wiring in the brain that causes those actions may very well be endowed at birth.

But, Bini, we both know that the sin is not being homosexual. The sin is HAVING SEX with the same gender. So, for you to say your cousin engaging in sexual relationships with the same gender is just being true to himself is misguided. That is, if you subscribe to LDS teachings.

How many people are "born" cliptomaniac? How many people are born with a sweet tooth and genetics susceiptible to diabetes? By your definition of being true to themselves, then these people have no choice but to steal, have no choice but to load up with sugar. By extension, obese people have no choice but to eat until their heart fails.

Let's put this closer to home for you. Men are born with the psychological wiring to be indescriminate with sexual partners. Your husband is born with the desire to have sex with more than one woman without emotional entanglements. By your definition of being true to himself - then you should allow him to have multiple sexual partners. Why are you against polygamy then?

I hope you will think about this before dismissing it as a disagreeable point.

You are much kinder than I am. Thank you for your example.

PS My own personal observation is that men tend to have more feeling attached to sex, not less, which is why promiscuous men seem on average more messed up than promiscuous women. Male promiscuity tends to lead to men who almost lose the ability to feel love at all; in women, this same tendency seems less pronounced. At least, that's how it looks to me.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Vort

[Guest]

thank you Anatess! I just got done reading that book (again) and am now on 'Speaker for the Dead'.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread. I give you back your keys...

I love that one too! Although, not as much as Ender's Game. I wasn't expecting it to be completely different than Ender's Game. I was expecting it to be more on the military side of things.

Okay, no more hijacking. Back to topic.

[Threeve]

you can not claim to be a Mormon but not completely support what the leader of our church proclaims. and to break it down to the nitty gritty. The prophet is the mouth piece of GOD!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That is not true. Who defines what a Mormon is? There are many kinds of mormons. Jack mormons, cafeteria mormons, even gay mormons, they are all still mormon. I don't believe in a lot of the prophet's views. Yet, I go to church, pay tithing, have a calling, the works. That doesn't mean I'm not a mormon. Lds members believe they are Christian, even though many people would not define them in that way, because of what we believe. Does that mean that LDS members are not Christians?

[Guest]

you can not claim to be a Mormon but not completely support what the leader of our church proclaims. and to break it down to the nitty gritty. The prophet is the mouth piece of GOD!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That is not true. Who defines what a Mormon is? There are many kinds of mormons. Jack mormons, cafeteria mormons, even gay mormons, they are all still mormon. I don't believe in a lot of the prophet's views. Yet, I go to church, pay tithing, have a calling, the works. That doesn't mean I'm not a mormon. Lds members believe they are Christian, even though many people would not define them in that way, because of what we believe. Does that mean that LDS members are not Christians?

Whoa, Threeve... I don't understand you here. You mean, you don't believe in a lot of the prophet's personal views or you don't believe in a lot of his teachings as a prophet? Two different things. I can understand your statement when you are talking personal views. But to the latter? You can't say you are LDS and blatantly reject the teachings of the prophet. It's a central doctrine - so basic that it is enumerated in the Articles of Faith. Of course, you can call yourself whatever name you want - but that doesn't make it true.

[Islander]

you can not claim to be a Mormon but not completely support what the leader of our church proclaims. and to break it down to the nitty gritty. The prophet is the mouth piece of GOD!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That is not true. Who defines what a Mormon is? There are many kinds of mormons. Jack mormons, cafeteria mormons, even gay mormons, they are all still mormon. I don't believe in a lot of the prophet's views. Yet, I go to church, pay tithing, have a calling, the works. That doesn't mean I'm not a mormon. Lds members believe they are Christian, even though many people would not define them in that way, because of what we believe. Does that mean that LDS members are not Christians?

The absolute fact remains that people can call themselves whatever they like.

That, however, has absolutely nothing to do with true and sacred membership in the Lord's Church. If you are self professed and active homosexual you can not be a member of the church in good standing. The same holds true if you are an adulterer, a pedophile or in prison for whatever crime. The Lord has set a standard and the doctrine has been laid before us for almost 200 years. He decides who is a member of the Church in good stand who is not.

[Threeve]

I don't know what you mean by teachings, and personal views. How do you know which are which? I don't think having two ear piercings is bad, is that the prophet's teachings or personal view? The prophet spoke out against Prop 8, yet even many members voted against the prophet's wishes. Does that make them not LDS? What is a prophet's personal views, and what is doctrine? How do you define what a "real mormon is?"

On the other hand, we believe we are Christian because we believe in Christ. But to other Christian religions, we aren't because we don't believe, among other reasons, the God head is one entity. Do they define who you are? No. And other mormons don't define what I believe in, or what I am.

[sixpacktr]

you can not claim to be a Mormon but not completely support what the leader of our church proclaims. and to break it down to the nitty gritty. The prophet is the mouth piece of GOD!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That is not true. Who defines what a Mormon is? There are many kinds of mormons. Jack mormons, cafeteria mormons, even gay mormons, they are all still mormon. I don't believe in a lot of the prophet's views. Yet, I go to church, pay tithing, have a calling, the works. That doesn't mean I'm not a mormon. Lds members believe they are Christian, even though many people would not define them in that way, because of what we believe. Does that mean that LDS members are not Christians?

I think that you then describe perfectly what Prison Chaplain was defining as a 'cafeteria' Mormon. Pick and choose. Don't like 'Keeping the Sabbath Holy' but LOVE 'Book of Mormon'. Can't be bothered with 'Home Teaching' but can't wait for 'PH Meeting'.

The Lord himself stated that he spits out the lukewarm, saying it would be better to be either hot or cold. The days are fast approaching (and, I dare say, from what I can see, are already here) when the sifting will begin, and those with a weak testimony will blow away as the chaff in the wind. It will be sad, it will be hurtful, but it will only hurt THOSE that are blown away.

We need to be ready. Both spiritually and temporally. We can't 'slough off' anymore and pick and choose what we will believe...

[Threeve]

*sigh...perhaps I am on the wrong site. =(

It makes me sad, I do my best, yet I'm not good enough to be a "good mormon" because of my views, even though I love my church.

Who knows what "doctrine" will be changed in fifty years, to "it was just the prophet's opinion." Doctrine and personal views have changed too many times. Oh, well. I wish every one luck on their spiritual journey.

[Ophiophagus]

Wow you guys really get down to it. Complexity is of the devil.(Not an accusation) It seems the question is. Is being GAY for some people REAL? I understand that some out there are just freaks and like attention. But what about the ones who grew up gay, Had gay tendencies when they were 6 years old. Act like girls walk like girls talk like girls on and on and on.... And they say its not a natural choice for them to be Hetero. example.... Its not a choice for me to be turned on by the female essence. ITS not a choice for me to be Heterosexual. I am end of story. So you think there are NO physical or chemical problems with any Gay person that might cause him to be turned on by male essence. (Im referring to Gay men to keep it simple.) I can not think of any other NATURAL tendencies that if kept with in the lords bounds are condemned by him. Even HE had pride in his son. Even pride if kept pure is not condemned.

[Guest]

*sigh...perhaps I am on the wrong site. =(

It makes me sad, I do my best, yet I'm not good enough to be a "good mormon" because of my views, even though I love my church.

Who knows what "doctrine" will be changed in fifty years, to "it was just the prophet's opinion." Doctrine and personal views have changed too many times. Oh, well. I wish every one luck on their spiritual journey.

Threeve, none of us here is in a position to judge. That is left to the Lord. If you feel you are a good mormon, then who are we to tell you otherwise?

But, there are some of us here that have a testimony as sure as the rock. It's a personal journey but we can learn from those who have traversed the same path. Just from your statement above, I can see myself in your shoes just 8 years ago. But, I have grown from that point. I've only been LDS for 8 years. But, I am a middle-aged woman with a myriad spiritual experiences to draw from. Maybe I can teach you, maybe I can't. It's up to you and the Holy Spirit. One thing is certain, the gospel does not change - from the time of Adam until today. And it is proclaimed by the voice of the prophets.

[Vort]

Wow you guys really get down to it. Complexity is of the devil.(Not an accusation) It seems the question is. Is being GAY for some people REAL?

Why do you think that is the question? I don't think it is; I think everyone freely acknowledges that the answer is "Yes". Personally, I see the question as completely irrelevant.

I understand that some out there are just freaks and like attention. But what about the ones who grew up gay, Had gay tendencies when they were 6 years old. Act like girls walk like girls talk like girls on and on and on.... And they say its not a natural choice for them to be Hetero.

Did someone in this thread say it's not natural for a homosexual to experience same-sex attraction? Because if so, I missed it.

example.... Its not a choice for me to be turned on by the female essence. ITS not a choice for me to be Heterosexual. I am end of story.

Not true, and certainly not "end of story". I don't deny that there is a biological component, but if you had been taught from infancy that women were dirty and repugnant, and that homosex was the pure and preferable way to copulate, then like many of the ancient Greeks, you would likely find your "natural" inclinations tended toward the masculine persuasion. You would find women useful for keeping house, having babies, and tending children, and would save your deeper sexual affections for your catamite.

Strangely enough, even the ancient Greeks who exalted homosexuality so highly still managed to understand that marriage is of necessity an intersexual relationship. Neither the ancient Greeks nor any other ancient culture of which I'm aware ever practiced "homosexual marriage".

So you think there are NO physical or chemical problems with any Gay person that might cause him to be turned on by male essence. (Im referring to Gay men to keep it simple.)

Please point out where anyone suggested such a thing. I think you're using a red herring.

I can not think of any other NATURAL tendencies that if kept with in the lords bounds are condemned by him.

But this is true by definition. Even homosexuality is uncondemned as long as it is kept within the Lord's bounds -- which is to say, it is not acted upon.

Even HE had pride in his son.

I do not believe the scriptures ever make any such statement. Please back up your claim.

Even pride if kept pure is not condemned.

Pride cannot be "kept pure" any more than raw sewage can be "kept pure".

[Traveler]

*sigh...perhaps I am on the wrong site. =(

It makes me sad, I do my best, yet I'm not good enough to be a "good mormon" because of my views, even though I love my church.

Who knows what "doctrine" will be changed in fifty years, to "it was just the prophet's opinion." Doctrine and personal views have changed too many times. Oh, well. I wish every one luck on their spiritual journey.

Threeve: Or anyone for that matter that is apologetic to homosexual behavior as being a activity beneficial and needed in society (thereby worthy of social support). May I engage you on conversation? I am an engineer and scientist as well as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. As a scientist I have asked for definition about homosexual activity in the past – particularly from those that support homosexual behavior as established completely at birth and not dependent on any other factors. How do you respond according to you beliefs and understanding to the following.

1. Is sexual behavior an acquired (learned) behavior or an instinctive behavior based on genetics passed at birth?

2. How do you define intelligence in relationship to learning and behavior within a species?

3. Are sexual responses (in this case – homosexual responses to triggers) cognitive and controllable and therefore part of intelligence within the human species or are they instinctive and incapable of any kind of intelligent overrides?

The Traveler

[LDSVALLEY]

This is one of those topics that create much hurt feelings among people. My family just spent two days sitting in the chapel watching conference, since it is too far to drive home between sessions we stay there for the entire day, It was very uplifting and spiritual, those who decided to go to the chapel for it felt very close.

We are engaged in a thread that can not have a resolution and opinion comes across as judgement against others opinions.

I believe some are wired gay but still can choose to give in to it. I believe many choose to be gay.

I believe you can call yourself what ever you want but your actions determine the truth of what we are.

I believe I can not pick and choose what I want to follow in order to be Mormon.

I believe this thread will create divisions not unity.

I believe God has given us all the choice to think for ourselves and determine our own course.

I believe you have the right and will defend it to disagree with me.

I believe only I can choose to take offense to something said, no one else can cause me offense.

I believe what each of us choose to follow what each of us does or believes but in the end...

I believe it is between each of us and Heavenly Father.

I believe therefore I will be.

[prisonchaplain]

I just stumbled upon this site. At first I thought it was secular, and would argue for the hardwire biological causation of same-sex attraction. Then, I noticed somewhere on the page a quote by Dalin Oaks. I thought that sounded like an LDS leader. So, I went to the home page and found that this appears to be an LDS supported site. So...maybe some well-balanced thoughts on this issue can be found here: Overcome unwanted same-sex attractions (homosexual, gay)

[Maxel]

*sigh...perhaps I am on the wrong site. =(

It makes me sad, I do my best, yet I'm not good enough to be a "good mormon" because of my views, even though I love my church.

Who knows what "doctrine" will be changed in fifty years, to "it was just the prophet's opinion." Doctrine and personal views have changed too many times. Oh, well. I wish every one luck on their spiritual journey.

Could you point to an area where official LDS doctrine (not policy, but official doctrine) has changed over the years?

[Bini]

Bini, I'm surprised to find myself on the different side of the coin as you. Yes, being promiscuous, a cheat, and a premeditated murderer is a choice - but the psychological wiring in the brain that causes those actions may very well be endowed at birth.

But, Bini, we both know that the sin is not being homosexual. The sin is HAVING SEX with the same gender. So, for you to say your cousin engaging in sexual relationships with the same gender is just being true to himself is misguided. That is, if you subscribe to LDS teachings.

How many people are "born" cliptomaniac? How many people are born with a sweet tooth and genetics susceiptible to diabetes? By your definition of being true to themselves, then these people have no choice but to steal, have no choice but to load up with sugar. By extension, obese people have no choice but to eat until their heart fails.

Let's put this closer to home for you. Men are born with the psychological wiring to be indescriminate with sexual partners. Your husband is born with the desire to have sex with more than one woman without emotional entanglements. By your definition of being true to himself - then you should allow him to have multiple sexual partners. Why are you against polygamy then?

I hope you will think about this before dismissing it as a disagreeable point.

I appreciate you being civil, Anatess. Salamat po :]

And I will respond. Like I stated in my first post, I do not know how my nephew currently lives his personal life. He may be living an active homosexual lifestyle. He may not. But when he tells us (his family) that he has no interest in girls and never has - I respect that. I may not understand or agree but I would prefer him to be open about who he is instead of pretending to be someone he is not. THAT was my point. And it was missed.

Regarding your last paragraph, this "psychological wiring" you speak of, is capable of being over-ridden. My husband is proof as I'm sure yours is as well. Being homosexual is not a choice for my nephew. He just is. Requiring he change his sexual orientation would be like asking us to become gay, even though, we have no desire in women. I would hate to see my nephew live a facade and not truly love the woman he's with because that special spark isn't there.

Anyway, I think we're veering off topic, as this is becoming more of an issue of "is it choice or is it not". I believe that for some, yes, it is a choice. I believe for others, alike my nephew, not it isn't. There are a lot of sins out there and this particular one seems to get more condemning than others. Thankfully, I'm not in charge and it is the Lord that will judge him not me.

[Guest]

I appreciate you being civil, Anatess. Salamat po :]

And I will respond. Like I stated in my first post, I do not know how my nephew currently lives his personal life. He may be living an active homosexual lifestyle. He may not. But when he tells us (his family) that he has no interest in girls and never has - I respect that. I may not understand or agree but I would prefer him to be open about who he is instead of pretending to be someone he is not. THAT was my point. And it was missed.

Regarding your last paragraph, this "psychological wiring" you speak of, is capable of being over-ridden. My husband is proof as I'm sure yours is as well. Being homosexual is not a choice for my nephew. He just is. Requiring he change his sexual orientation would be like asking us to become gay, even though, we have no desire in women. I would hate to see my nephew live a facade and not truly love the woman he's with because that special spark isn't there.

Anyway, I think we're veering off topic, as this is becoming more of an issue of "is it choice or is it not". I believe that for some, yes, it is a choice. I believe for others, alike my nephew, not it isn't. There are a lot of sins out there and this particular one seems to get more condemning than others. Thankfully, I'm not in charge and it is the Lord that will judge him not me.

Ah Bini. I'm understanding you now. Okay, the way you explained it here, I agree with you. So we're not on different sides of the coin after all. Yes, to accept that your cousin is gay is the thing to do. As a matter of fact, it is very common in the Philippines to accept them and love them as they are. Have you been to the salons in the Philippines? There's this one in Cebu - Ricky Reyes. Oh, and Maanyag. They are very high class, expensive, very high quality salons. They are run by gay men. Cebuanos, male, female, or in-between pay through the nose to get styled by them. They surely have carved a niche there. And they are loved by their costumers. They have held Miss Gay Mandaue for as long as I can remember (from the late 70's I think) - a gay beauty pageant in my hometown. But, that's as far as they go. Being predominantly Catholic, they draw the line on same sex physical relationships and completely against same sex marriage. Some of them are married to girls. Most of them though remain single.

I have a classmate from elementary school who is gay. He's been effeminate since Kindergarten! But, he's married to a girl. With kids. And happy. His wife is one lucky girl - he is quite the decorator and very clean and love to do house stuff. He chose this life and was successful. I have another friend who never showed signs of being gay, married to a girl for 12 years, had 3 kids and moved to America. Last year, he divorced his wife to live with another guy. He was happy in the Philippines. So, that was his choice.

I know a few gay men who embraced Catholic Priesthood with a vow of celibacy. That's the choice they made too.

So yea, I don't think anybody in this thread believe being gay should be shunned. I think we all agree that gay or not, we are all children of God. But, LDS believe that having sex with the same gender is a sin and should be avoided the same as having sex with somebody who is not your wife/husband is a sin and should be avoided.

[Ophiophagus]

you can not claim to be a Mormon but not completely support what the leader of our church proclaims. and to break it down to the nitty gritty. The prophet is the mouth piece of GOD!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That is not true. Who defines what a Mormon is? There are many kinds of mormons. Jack mormons, cafeteria mormons, even gay mormons, they are all still mormon. I don't believe in a lot of the prophet's views. Yet, I go to church, pay tithing, have a calling, the works. That doesn't mean I'm not a mormon. Lds members believe they are Christian, even though many people would not define them in that way, because of what we believe. Does that mean that LDS members are not Christians?

I respectfully but COMPLETELY DISAGREE!! You don't believe in a lot of GODS views!!???

The countless COMMANDMENTS DEFINE WHAT A MORMON IS, or should BE.

I am a proud Mormon and I believe (even if i am some times to weak to act) That the Prophet is the mouth piece of God. And every thing he says, especially official church comments and talks are the direct voice of GOD. Even if I am imperfect, I believe the council is.

Can you claim to be a Mormon but not believe in Joseph Smith??

And the infinite lies that the adversary and other idiots claim about Mormons has nothing to do with a Self Proclaiming Mormon disagreeing with the Prophet of the church.

[Ophiophagus]

Why do you think that is the question? I don't think it is; I think everyone freely acknowledges that the answer is "Yes". Personally, I see the question as completely irrelevant.

Did someone in this thread say it's not natural for a homosexual to experience same-sex attraction? Because if so, I missed it.

Not true, and certainly not "end of story". I don't deny that there is a biological component, but if you had been taught from infancy that women were dirty and repugnant, and that homosex was the pure and preferable way to copulate, then like many of the ancient Greeks, you would likely find your "natural" inclinations tended toward the masculine persuasion. You would find women useful for keeping house, having babies, and tending children, and would save your deeper sexual affections for your catamite.

Strangely enough, even the ancient Greeks who exalted homosexuality so highly still managed to understand that marriage is of necessity an intersexual relationship. Neither the ancient Greeks nor any other ancient culture of which I'm aware ever practiced "homosexual marriage".

Please point out where anyone suggested such a thing. I think you're using a red herring.

But this is true by definition. Even homosexuality is uncondemned as long as it is kept within the Lord's bounds -- which is to say, it is not acted upon.

I do not believe the scriptures ever make any such statement. Please back up your claim.

Pride cannot be "kept pure" any more than raw sewage can be "kept pure".

I believe trying a drug and then becoming addicted to it is way different then being born with a legitimate natural condition. (not your argument Vort, Chill) and PP isnt Committing to celibacy a sin?

Im Sorry Vort im a simpleton. The only way to make progress is to simplify. So your basically saying that everyone here agrees that homosexuality can be (notice I said CAN be) completely real and legitimate and natural for a Gay person.

And your answer is... (as a whole).... To bad? Suck it up? Rub some dirt on it? God will get you through it?

Wow.

You all are also saying a Gay person has to marry someone an live with them and be faithful to them for the rest of his life despite having no physical traction to them?

And I was simply referring to: "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased." sounds to me like Hes proud of Him.

You all need not get me wrong, Homosexuality disgusts me personally. But I have come a long ways being honest with my self (meaning I wont deny that there seems to be no answer for them or this huge Problem.) And I have rarely if ever felt a lack of answers in The True Church.

Sorry for the repetitions Vort. It is only because I am finding this lack of (again) ANSWERS reinforcing my confusion.

Remember I am not accusing any one. Im just trying to sift through all the Bullcrap.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Ophiophagus

[Ophiophagus]

I believe this thread will create divisions not unity.

I believe God wants us to make up our minds and solidity our opinions and beliefs.

I believe God wants us to be either Hot or Cold.

I believe you like to avoid problems. (No Offense)

[Guest]

I believe trying a drug and then becoming addicted to it is way different then being born with a legitimate natural condition. (not your argument Vort, Chill) and PP isnt Committing to celibacy a sin?

Im Sorry Vort im a simpleton. The only way to make progress is to simplify. So your basically saying that everyone here agrees that homosexuality can be (notice I said CAN be) completely real and legitimate and natural for a Gay person.

And your answer is... (as a whole).... To bad? Suck it up? Rub some dirt on it? God will get you through it?

Wow.

You all are also saying a Gay person has to marry someone an live with them and be faithful to them for the rest of his life despite having no physical traction to them?

And I was simply referring to: "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased." sounds to me like Hes proud of Him.

You all need not get me wrong, Homosexuality disgusts me personally. But I have come a long ways being honest with my self (meaning I wont deny that there seems to be no answer for them or this huge Problem.) And I have rarely if ever felt a lack of answers in The True Church.

Sorry for the repetitions Vort. It is only because I am finding this lack of (again) ANSWERS reinforcing my confusion.

Remember I am not accusing any one. Im just trying to sift through all the Bullcrap.

Hi Ophio... read post #44 and tell me what you think.

[bmy-]

Sexual orientation has nothing to do with which religion you align yourself with. Absolutely nothing.

[Ophiophagus]

That is just hard to believe, Im sorry. Being Naturally Homosexual but still enter in to a Hetro marriage and still being Happy? I just think gender attraction has far more reaching implications to make this type of a freak show plausible. I mean marriage is ETERNAL!! Hes NEVER going to be attracted to his ETERNAL Spouse. Or in Heaven is the Homo suddenly magically going to be attracted to his wife or females for that matter?

Our families are supposed to be structured like HFs family and will last forever.

Ok so im goin for broke now.

The scriptures say that spiritual gender has always existed. Are the homos female spirits inside a mans body? or are they male spirits trapped in side a body that is chemically malfunctioning to be attracted to the male essence.

This is as close to an answer has I can find.