Truth Vs Knowledge

[harrypotter]

"The most important thing we can do in this life is to find divine truths and then live them."

I really like that statement, consider it we are challenged to actuallly become something rather than achieve something on a mere intellectual basis.

You can have as much knowledge as you like but it still wont make you happy if you aren't living a good life.

Consider the following thought when you die you will remember all that you have learnt but you will have to live with all that you have become.

I believe there is a distinct difference between the two.

I really enjoyed this chinese proverb, it's tranmission reads;

i here, i forget

i see, i know

i do, i understand

This statement is like that which the Saviour made if any man will do my will he will know of a surity weather i speak of myself or him that sent me.

We know God through Christ

Consider this analogy

You have never tasted chocolate, you have heard that it is sweet and good from others but have yet to experience it yourself. But once you have you know and are sure. This is a testimony and know one can take it away from you because you know.

I like it how faith and testimony are all interlinked if we revist the last analogy we probably woouldn't have tasted the chocolate if we weren't encouraged by freinds.It is a spiritual gift to believe the testimony of others. Once we hear that testimony it is down to us to excercise the nessicary faith and taste the chocolate.

We do everything by faith i would ask anybody to tell me something that we didn't do without faith?

Anyhow just a few rambling thoughts i'd share with you.

take care Stephen

[Ray]

Good thoughts, Harry. You reminded me of another quote I like:

It's not who I am underneath but what I do that defines me.

- from Batman Begins. :)

And as I'm sure you know, our Lord will judge us by our works, not by our ideas.

And, as Joseph Smith said:

The more knowledge we have, the more advantage we will have - or something like that. Does anyone know this quote word for word?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by harrypotter@Oct 21 2005, 12:55 PM

"The most important thing we can do in this life is to find divine truths and then live them."

I really like that statement, consider it we are challenged to actuallly become something rather than achieve something on a mere intellectual basis.

You can have as much knowledge as you like but it still wont make you happy if you aren't living a good life.

Consider the following thought when you die you will remember all that you have learnt but you will have to live with all that you have become.

I believe there is a distinct difference between the two.

I really enjoyed this chinese proverb, it's tranmission reads;

i here, i forget

i see, i know

i do, i understand

This statement is like that which the Saviour made if any man will do my will he will know of a surity weather i speak of myself or him that sent me.

We know God through Christ

Consider this analogy

You have never tasted chocolate, you have heard that it is sweet and good from others but have yet to experience it yourself. But once you have you know and are sure. This is a testimony and know one can take it away from you because you know.

I like it how faith and testimony are all interlinked if we revist the last analogy we probably woouldn't have tasted the chocolate if we weren't encouraged by freinds.It is a spiritual gift to believe the testimony of others. Once we hear that testimony it is down to us to excercise the nessicary faith and taste the chocolate.

We do everything by faith i would ask anybody to tell me something that we didn't do without faith?

Anyhow just a few rambling thoughts i'd share with you.

take care Stephen

←

Good thoughts :)

[Traveler]

Knowledge is truth - altered by opinion.

The Traveler

[Snow]

Originally posted by harrypotter@Oct 21 2005, 10:55 AM

Consider this analogy

You have never tasted chocolate, you have heard that it is sweet and good from others but have yet to experience it yourself. But once you have you know and are sure. This is a testimony and know one can take it away from you because you know.

←

Bad analogy. Chocolate is bitter. It is the added sugar that is sweet, ergo, acording to your analogy... such a testimony would be based on false pretenses.

[Setheus]

There are degrees of truth.

The chicken crossed the road....or, did the road cross under the chicken?

ICBM's are not shot "at" their target, they are shot up into the atmosphere and then fall almost straight down again after they've lined up with where their target "will soon be" and then the rotation of the earth brings the target to them...yet we still preceve that the missle was shot "at" us. Interesting

*actually the ICBM and its target come together at the same time at various velocities but you get the idea*

[Serg]

Well Ray if you are reffering to "advantage and knowledge" it only comes to my mind the section in doctrine and covenants that says: "And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come." (130:19).

But if its another quote from JS, there are plenty like : "Without revelation there is no salvation"(Teachings of the Prophet JS) or others

as: Pure knowledge greatly enlarges the soul, D&C 121: 42, "One progresses only as fast as he gains knowledge" (HC 4: 588).

[Ray]

Originally posted by Serg@Oct 26 2005, 11:22 AM

Well Ray if you are reffering to "advantage and knowledge" it only comes to my mind the section in doctrine and covenants that says: "And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come." (130:19).

      But if its another quote from JS, there are plenty like : "Without revelation there is no salvation"(Teachings of the Prophet JS) or others

as: Pure knowledge greatly enlarges the soul, D&C 121: 42, "One progresses only as fast as he gains knowledge" (HC 4: 588).

←

Thank you, Serg! :)

I was thinking of the words in D&C 130:19, but I appreciate the other quotes too.

[Serg]

Welcome!

[Ray]

Originally posted by Traveler@Oct 25 2005, 07:49 PM

Knowledge is truth - altered by opinion.

The Traveler

←

The truth cannot be altered by opinion.

The truth can only be known or remain unknown, where it is until you know it.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 26 2005, 02:05 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Traveler@Oct 25 2005, 07:49 PM

Knowledge is truth - altered by opinion.

The Traveler

←

The truth cannot be altered by opinion.

The truth can only be known or remain unknown, where it is until you know it.

←

Hey that was very tricky.. but true Ray...

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 26 2005, 01:05 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Traveler@Oct 25 2005, 07:49 PM

Knowledge is truth - altered by opinion.

The Traveler

←

The truth cannot be altered by opinion.

The truth can only be known or remain unknown, where it is until you know it.

←

It appears to me that your opinion on this matter is quite close to my opinionated views concerning this matter. It is also my opinion that in the broad spectrum of view of truth that we can only view truth based on the window of our opinions. The measure of that window is expressed by our freedom based on that knowledge.

The Traveler

[Ray]

Originally posted by Traveler+Oct 28 2005, 02:22 PM-->

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 26 2005, 01:05 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Traveler@Oct 25 2005, 07:49 PM

Knowledge is truth - altered by opinion.

The Traveler

←

The truth cannot be altered by opinion.

The truth can only be known or remain unknown, where it is until you know it.

←

It appears to me that your opinion on this matter is quite close to my opinionated views concerning this matter. It is also my opinion that in the broad spectrum of view of truth that we can only view truth based on the window of our opinions. The measure of that window is expressed by our freedom based on that knowledge.

The Traveler

←

You first said "altered" by our opinion, and you now appear to be describing how truth is "revealed" through our opinion, if in fact it is, and therein lies the difference.

Or in other words, I do not alter truth by revealing my opinion, if in fact I have anything truthful to say. I am merely sharing what I know.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by harrypotter@Oct 21 2005, 11:55 AM

We do everything by faith i would ask anybody to tell me something that we didn't do without faith?

I wouldn’t agree with this. There are things I do without needing faith to do them:

I eat food

I sleep, usually because I fall asleep watching TV

I talk to my family

I laugh

I cry (even at commercials; and especially when I watch that Ty Pennington show)

…etc

I don’t see why I would need faith to do those things.

M.

[Ray]

With the understanding that “faith” is an “assurance”, I would say that:

You eat food because you are assured it will satisfy your hunger or “sweet” tooth, or any other ideas you associate with “food”.

You sleep because you are assured it will help you to recover your energy.

You talk to your family because you are assured that communication will help you to grow closer to them…

You laugh because you are assured it is an appropriate response to something that tickles you

You cry because you are assured it is an appropriate response to something that gives you certain other emotions.

And although you may not “see” why you need “faith” to do those things, you would not be able to do those things without being assured they will bring about certain results which you find to be acceptable.

And btw, some people don’t cry or laugh or do anything else because they don’t have the assurance that it is acceptable or will bring about acceptable results, thinking “grown men don’t cry” or “real men don’t cry” or “laughing too loud would bring too much attention to yourself”, which you find to be unacceptable ideas.

[pushka]

Sometimes some people cry without any control, and then feel embarrassed about it, because they know that they have cried at an inappropriate time, therefore I disagree with your belief that Maureen cries because she is assured that it is an appropriate response to something that gives her certain other emotions...

To be more specific about the above, maybe Maureen does not feel it's appropriate to cry at some things which she cries over...I certainly do sometimes, therefore she is not crying because of feeling reassured that it is an appropriate response...

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 26 2005, 01:05 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Traveler@Oct 25 2005, 07:49 PM

Knowledge is truth - altered by opinion.

The Traveler

←

The truth cannot be altered by opinion.

←

So many truths SHOULD NOT be altered by anything, because then they start to turn into partial truths, and some fall into plain deceit. Which is not a good thing IMHO. (too hard to try to cover your tracks) :) Well, that and it's always hard to justify false information to someone trying to understand the truth as they are presented. :thinking:

[dizzysmiles]

how many of you know the sun will appear in the east? it is your faith that it will rise just as it is our faith the son has risen and will come from th east one day