Arranged Marriages

[Guest mormonmusic]

I thought I'd share the experience of a gentleman I lived with temporarily about his arranged marriage in the Indian culture.

It led to a highly successful marriage, and I think it has some golden nuggets in it about the role of family input into who you marry.

This was how it worked. A family with a son or daughter ready to be married puts an ad in the paper indicating availability -- the parents do it. When there are interested responses to the ad, the parents meet in each others' homes first to get to know each other for a visit. The potential bride and groom aren't present. There, the parents make a judgment about whether to go to the next step -- the singles meeting. The relationship can fail at this point, or move forward.

Then the potential bride and groom (the singles) meet each other and spend some time together, and decide if they want to marry each other. It can fail at this point, or move forward.

Then the grandparents put their seal on it, and it can fail at this point or move to actual marriage.

My friend told me this was his experience:

1. His family met with the parents of a girl who was available, and at that point, they decided not to go forward. He never met her.

2. His parents met the parents of a different family, and they thought the parental meeting was suitable enough to move forward. My friend nixed the relationship after his visit with the girl because in his words "he didn't like the girl".

3. A third attempt got past the parental approval and the singles' approval stages. But his grandparents nixed the relationship because the family was of a different sect within their religion.

4. The last time, the relationship made it through all levels. He told me he and his wife are really, really happy. And his brother married his wife's sister -- they too are really happy, and even share a house together.

Apparently, the success rate of these "arranged marriages" is very high in his culture, he said.

While I'm not sure this is necessarily for America, it highlighted for me the role of considering the input of the people who know you, your family values, as well as your own gut feelings in deciding who makes a good marriage partner.

What also impressed me was that he didn't spend a lot of time with his wife before marriage -- it was as if similarities in family values had such a strong influence on marital success, that this was of lesser importance.

Edited December 1, 2009 by mormonmusic

[Dravin]

Is success defined by a lack of divorce? If not how is it defined? How do cultural mores and laws concerning divorce differ from those in America or Europe? What about expectations in the marriage relationship? Do we have a case of causality or simply correlation?

What you are saying could be the case, but there could by a myriad of reasons things are the way they are in India and the process you are describing could be the sole factor (something I personally doubt, though that is just a gut call), a contributing factor, not be a factor at all, or even be a case of marriages being successful despite such, the negative effect being over ruled by other factors.

Edit: Not saying there is nothing that can possibly be learned from India, probably quite the opposite, just saying that we should be cautious in trying to indentify why exactly the divorce rate in India is the way it is, sometimes the obvious or common sense idea isn't all it is cracked up to be. For instance some like to credit no-fault divorce as the reason for high divorce rates, except, for example, Belgium didn't have no-fault divorce until 2000 and still had one of the highest divorce rates in Europe meaning other factors needed to be considered.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Dravin

[Guest mormonmusic]

Is success defined by a lack of divorce? If not how is it defined? How do cultural mores and laws concerning divorce differ from those in America or Europe? What about expectations in the marriage relationship? Do we have a case of causality or simply correlation?

What you are saying could be the case, but there could by a myriad of reasons things are the way they are in India and the process you are describing could be the sole factor (something I personally doubt, though that is just a gut call), a contributing factor, not be a factor at all, or even be a case of marriages being successful despite such, the negative effect being over ruled by other factors.

As an academic, I agree with all of these questions -- if one had a lot of time and money to research them I think they would be extremely worthwhile to answer. Unfortunately, I don't have those resources, although I see the questions as extremely valid questions. I think that was why I mentioned in my post that "while this may not be the way for America..." as a subtle reference to the limitations of generalizing too broadly.

However, I once read about a concept called "theories in use". Basically, that people don't have the time and resources to research every single truth using scientific method as they go about trying to live their lives. Therefore, they create theories from available information, and then use those theories to make decisions.

The role of historical family values as a key factor in marital happiness is one of my "theories in use". As such, I recognize it as a theory, with all the limitations theories have.

(I can answer one question -- in the anecdotal situation of my friend and his brother, success in marriage meant happiness with the relationship by both husband and wife, and definitely not the simple absence of divorce).

[Vort]

And his brother married his wife's sister -- they too are really happy, and even share a house together.

So the first cousins are genetically more like half-siblings. Better to avoid any cousin marriages there...

[Dravin]

Oh I agree, a simple lack of resources means not everyhing can be studied in depth and if we didn't act on any theory until every aspect was pinned down we'd spend a lot of time not doing anything. Hope I wasn't coming acrossed as antagonistic. Just wanted to cover the bases, a happy medium can usually be found between billions in studies and jumping to the conclusion that being a brown Asian causes lower divorce rates. :)

[Vort]

a happy medium can usually be found

A Wrinkle in Time, chapter 6.

[Bini]

I couldn't do an arranged marriage myself but I'm very familiar with them having lived overseas. My best friend here in the US is Navajo and her parents are in an arranged marriage. They seem happy enough and are both hard workers. They decided to leave the res when my friend was a young child to start their own lives. Anyway, I've seen successful arranged marriages but I'm sure there's just as many that aren't quite as successful and are unhappy. But despite what people say, I believe you can learn to love anyone, even if it isn't an instant feeling at first sight.

[Saturnfulcrum]

Would I be the odd one out to say that I wouldn't mind an arranged marriage?

[Gwen]

Would I be the odd one out to say that I wouldn't mind an arranged marriage?

yes lol :)

[Saturnfulcrum]

Well...poo.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Would I be the odd one out to say that I wouldn't mind an arranged marriage?

I'm another that wouldn't have minded an arranged marriage. I was so lost in that period trying to figure all that out. I think I would've benefited from the parental screening process at the outset. My parents know me inside and out, had a lot of spiritual life experience, and have been pretty good judges of character through the years. But I say this with the reminder that the potential groom has the option to "nix" a recommended partner if he doesn't like the parental recommendations.

If there was no choice allowed on the part of the people being married, then there's no way I could do it; I'd feel robbed...

Edited December 5, 2009 by mormonmusic

[Guest murrayskeeter]

I see that arranged marriage may cause communication breakdown. After having lived with a spouse for a number of years, it may become apparent that the couple becomes unable to communicate in a normal, meaningful fashion. Either spouse's inability to avoid exchanges which invariably result in conflict is representative of a communication breakdown in the marriage. In extreme cases, especially if accompanied by abusive tendencies or other symptoms of dysfunction, a growing inability to deal with any verbal exchanges without conflict could be indicative of a much more serious problem that requires the attention of a mental health professional.

[Hemidakota]

I thought I'd share the experience of a gentleman I lived with temporarily about his arranged marriage in the Indian culture.

It led to a highly successful marriage, and I think it has some golden nuggets in it about the role of family input into who you marry.

This was how it worked. A family with a son or daughter ready to be married puts an ad in the paper indicating availability -- the parents do it. When there are interested responses to the ad, the parents meet in each others' homes first to get to know each other for a visit. The potential bride and groom aren't present. There, the parents make a judgment about whether to go to the next step -- the singles meeting. The relationship can fail at this point, or move forward.

Then the potential bride and groom (the singles) meet each other and spend some time together, and decide if they want to marry each other. It can fail at this point, or move forward.

Then the grandparents put their seal on it, and it can fail at this point or move to actual marriage.

My friend told me this was his experience:

1. His family met with the parents of a girl who was available, and at that point, they decided not to go forward. He never met her.

2. His parents met the parents of a different family, and they thought the parental meeting was suitable enough to move forward. My friend nixed the relationship after his visit with the girl because in his words "he didn't like the girl".

3. A third attempt got past the parental approval and the singles' approval stages. But his grandparents nixed the relationship because the family was of a different sect within their religion.

4. The last time, the relationship made it through all levels. He told me he and his wife are really, really happy. And his brother married his wife's sister -- they too are really happy, and even share a house together.

Apparently, the success rate of these "arranged marriages" is very high in his culture, he said.

While I'm not sure this is necessarily for America, it highlighted for me the role of considering the input of the people who know you, your family values, as well as your own gut feelings in deciding who makes a good marriage partner.

What also impressed me was that he didn't spend a lot of time with his wife before marriage -- it was as if similarities in family values had such a strong influence on marital success, that this was of lesser importance.

I can boldly testify, I am one of those heavenly arranged marriages. We simply put forth effort to make it work.

[SanctitasDeo]

I see that arranged marriage may cause communication breakdown. After having lived with a spouse for a number of years, it may become apparent that the couple becomes unable to communicate in a normal, meaningful fashion. Either spouse's inability to avoid exchanges which invariably result in conflict is representative of a communication breakdown in the marriage. In extreme cases, especially if accompanied by abusive tendencies or other symptoms of dysfunction, a growing inability to deal with any verbal exchanges without conflict could be indicative of a much more serious problem that requires the attention of a mental health professional.

What does this have to do with arranged marriages? I read the article and fail to see the connection. The addition of the phrase 'arranged marriage' to that paragraph is logically nonsensical.

[Elgama]

I see that arranged marriage may cause communication breakdown. After having lived with a spouse for a number of years, it may become apparent that the couple becomes unable to communicate in a normal, meaningful fashion. Either spouse's inability to avoid exchanges which invariably result in conflict is representative of a communication breakdown in the marriage. In extreme cases, especially if accompanied by abusive tendencies or other symptoms of dysfunction, a growing inability to deal with any verbal exchanges without conflict could be indicative of a much more serious problem that requires the attention of a mental health professional.

not sure why this is appilcable to arranged marriages rather than just marriage.

[dazed-and-confused]

As one who also has had a great deal of exposure to Indian culture, i can say that in India, arranged marriages are the norm. Not all of them, howevever, work out. Along with the caste system, there is a set of rules concerning male and female roles, SPECIFICALLY in the poorer population. These too, however, can be overcome if the marriage is right, that is, if it follows their religious teachings.

There is also much abuse towards women in India, to the extent that some men (and their families) will marry only to obtain the brides dowery.....yes, that is ALSO an active tradition in India. At some point after the marriage, i regret to say this, women have been set on fire with the intention of them dying. Since wood stoves are still common in India, or dung stoves, and a woman's sari is so long and burns easily, it is too easily said that she simply got caught too close to the open flame.

While some of these men have been convicted and sent to prison, others do not, speacially if they are wealthy and their family can influence the court..something ELSE that is VERY common in India.

All this being said, I have been to India several times and find it to be a very interesting.

[Hemidakota]

So the first cousins are genetically more like half-siblings. Better to avoid any cousin marriages there...

Then, thank goodness we are FIFTH COUSINS!!!

Actually, I didn't know until a few years later when I was doing some genealogy work [related through both mothers Windsor family lines].

[marshac]

I've been in school for the past two years with a Afghan girl who is supposed to be in an arranged marriage- she doesn't like the guy she is supposed to marry, so she has been dragging her heels while seeing some other guy on the side. Sounds like the Indian system allows for more control by the people actually getting married than the Afghan system.

[Sean1427]

About 60% of the worlds marriages are arranged, though the arrangment process varies from culture to culture. They're very common throughout the East, from the Middle East to the Far East, including Japan. It was the norm in the West as well until fairly recently. Of course, it still happens in the West, just not as often. The most popular arranged marriage was that of Princess Di andn Prince Charles. And, of course, in biblical times it wasn't just the norm, it was the only way it was done. Dating is what's new on the world's stage and can only really occur when people have the convenience, the leisure, and the opportunity to do so. Dating began in the US as immigrants were removed from traditions in the old country when they found themselves in an environment that wasn't conducive to arranged marriages. Anthropoligical studies do indicate that the success rate of arranged marriages is much better than "love marriages." However, it's to be granted that the ease or difficulty in being able to divorce naturally affects this. Muslim men can obtain divorces quite easily and yet they don't nearly have the divorce rates westerners do. (Of course, there is a safeguard for Muslim women in that when she marries, she never legally becomes a member of her husband's family, which means she can go home to her father or other related male guardian (who serves in part as her legal representative would in the US), which is a major problem for the husband since it's a rare Arab husband who knows how to take care of himself!) Regardless of what we think of arranged marriages, dating has to be the worst way to find a spouse--after all, we're always on a best behavior on a date, and we rarely know what the other individual is like until after the honeymoon is over.

Killing a wife by setting her on fire in India is certainly not the norm nor is it legal in India. This does not mean it doesn't happen. But you can say the same thing about a husband's killing a wife in Brazil, a Christian nation where most marriages are the result of dating. Judges there often turn a blind eye to it. Moreover, killing a wife by settiner her afire is simply the weapon of choice. In the US spouses also kill each other; we just choose a different weapon. As for abuse, it happens in every country regardless of how the marriage came about or the religion of the individuals involved. And man who marries for the dowry is no different from those Americans who marry for wealth, regardless of the way it might be manifest. (Note in the margin: marriages in Islam consist of two parts; the first is similar to our engagement period; the second part is the actual wedding. If the "husband" dies during the first stage but before the wedding, the settlement of his estate requires that any part of the dowry that was not paid to the "wife" is paid to her before anyone other financial obligations are met.)

One point of interest regarding the so-called dowry in Islam, it's more like the financial arrangements which many Americans agree to in our pre-nuptial agreements. One can also compare it to our alimony, where financial arrangement are arrived at after-the-fact rather than before. It also serves to show that girl and her family that he's able to provide for her and their family. One of the funniest dowry situations I'm familiar with took place with a diplomat in Dubai. In Islam, mothers are generally the matchmakers although everyone else is also involved. The prospective bride and groom can see each other once, in a chaperoned environment, and agree or disagree with the proposed arrangement. And this is the time when the man can actually see the girl's face since she removes the veil on this occasion. This diplomat trusted his mother to make a good choice. But he trusted his mother too much evidently. He never took advantage of the opportunity to see the girl's face. Instead, he relied on what his mother had told him about the girl. She in turn relied on the girl's mother who only showed the guy's mother a photo of her daugther. The first night after the wedding, he tried to get her to remove her veil, which she refused to do. The more he pressed her, the more resistant she became. But once he succeeded, he was shocked because his beautifull bride was bearded and cross-eyed! He divorced her for fraud, and divorces are easy for a man to do. But he had to sue in court where he demanded the return of the dowry, an exhorbitant amount of $136,000 US. The court held that he was not entitled to the dowry. After all, he had the opportunity to see what he was getting into and foolishly didn't avail himself of it. The story of Leah and Rachel is alive and well in the ME and not something you find soley in the pages of the OT.

Few Americans born and bred would do an arranged marriage. It's not part of our culture. But those from other cultures look at many of the things we do and think how strange we are.