LostSheep rants on about nothing...again...

[LostSheep]

To those that have responded...Thank you.

[Maxgreen1]

Why does God want me to suffer so bad? Why did he curse me with this addiction? I'll NEVER be able to escape it. I'm only fooling myself. Does God even care anymore? Does ANYONE even care anymore? This is stupid. I'm reduced to asking questions I know the answers to in a forum at 3 am. I'm pathetic. I already know what I need to do. The truth is, I don't want to put forth the effort. I act like I do. I say I do. I even believe myself sometimes when I say I'm sorry. But in the end, I'm not sorry. I don't want to put forth the effort. In other words, I don't want to quit, but I want to want to quit. Before anyone asks, yes, this entire thread IS pointless and full of rehtorical questions.

This is the where people post brilliant solutions to my problem that I've never considered, like "Get an internet filter.", "never use a computer again." or "Just stop doing it." Don't waste your breath. I've heard everything. Either the solution doesn't work, or I'm too thick headed to try it. If I've offended anyone by now, I'm sorry. I would have expect that you would have stopped reading after the first few sentences.

To the mods, if this post is "inappropriate" or "off topic" or whatever, I don't care. Take it down. Lock it. Burn it. Whatever you do to bad threads. I'm only venting anyway. I'm sure in a week, I'll be saying again to myself like a moron, "That was the last time. I'm sorry."

Sometimes I wonder...would I be happier just giving in completely?

P.S. Here's some emoticons...

I care. Lostsheep, I feel your pain. It's not easy.

Oh, wretched man that I am, I've been having a rough week with my addiction as well, and only to realize that all my suffering is due to my arrogance. Sometimes we are hardheaded and sin anyway. Sometimes we battle and battle, and just give in. When we do that, we weaken ourselves further. I was quick to underestimate this addiction, I haven't touched it for months! Just this week I let my guard down and I start all over again. Oh wretched man that I am! My heart suffers such anguish, and remains so stubborn as to ignore its own pain. I've conquered this before. Pray! Be humble! Repent! Study! Read! Serve your neighbor! The more you do these things, the stronger the spirit will be with you!

We must realize that we have power.

We have Christ!

We have agency!

We all have the opportunity to develop a testimony!

We mustn't allow sin to pull us down.

We must realize that Christ offers us a way out of these sins, if we offer ourselves unto him.

Please keep me posted.

-Max

[Misshalfway]

LS.....you been working on this problem for a while now. From an outside vantage point, I find myself wondering how your program is working for you. I know I am a broken record, but maybe its time to re-evaluate the components of your program. I think it helps to remind ourselves that PA is not a sexual problem, but more accurately an intimacy disorder. Intimacy with others and with self. So, I guess I am just wondering how much of your recovery is centered on meeting these more central issues. Again, the broken record......but if you are relying on restrictions and white knuckling then the failure rates are almost certain. The most successful in recovery are the ones who have the accoutability and repentance stuff built in, but who also focus on the emotional fronts as well.

How is group? Who is your contact person for weekly honest reporting? How are you measuring success? What are your successes? I have observed that often the changing comes from the inside out. So while the relapsing behaviors look the same, the inner workings of the person are undergoing mighty changes. Is that happening with you?

[Misshalfway]

I care. Lostsheep, I feel your pain. It's not easy.

Pray! Be humble! Repent! Study! Read! Serve your neighbor! The more you do these things, the stronger the spirit will be with you!

YOu will have to forgive me for interjecting here as well. I appreciate the sincerity of this post. I have no idea what experience you have with PA and so I don't want to undermind the heart felt sentiment here.

BUT......it is my experience that telling an addict to keep reading and praying and serving is counter productive as it helps keep the cycle of failure and despair alive. I am not saying these things are not essential pieces to a recovery program. But someone who is as deeply entrenched as many in our church need professional interventions and emotional therapies. Recovery is not just repentance. Does that make sense? Sadly, too many bishops fail to understand this and can't understand why the using simply won't stop. I bet I could bring in thousands of LDS men who have done all these things for years without overcoming. And that is the tragedy of PA and why the shame and despair gets deeply entrenched as well. They are a scourge and we need and mulifacited approach to help people recover themselves. It's like trying to pray weeds out of your garden. Better to just get in there and do the hard work and pray as you go. You know?

[MaMeeshkaMow]

I like that football analogy. If you're stuck on 4th down (feeling down), don't give up the ball!

[LostSheep]

I find myself wondering how your program is working for you.

If by program you mean that web filter I had...No...didn't work...but I did manage to waste some money in the process.

How is group?

I don't go. Sorta ruined it for me after my dad became the teacher.

Who is your contact person for weekly honest reporting?

I don't have anyone.

How are you measuring success?

Time

What are your successes?

LONG times

I know what your going to say. I answered every question wrong.

[prisonchaplain]

So much has already been said. I agree with thekabbalist that each victory should be celebrated, rather than each failure used for self-condemnation. Also, at this point, look for that next victory, rather then fretting over when the compulsions will end. Finally, I congratulate you on not allowing yourself to justify or get comfortable with this demon. It is the enemy, and you resistance is necessary and good.

[Vort]

YOu will have to forgive me for interjecting here as well. I appreciate the sincerity of this post. I have no idea what experience you have with PA and so I don't want to undermind the heart felt sentiment here.

BUT......it is my experience that telling an addict to keep reading and praying and serving is counter productive as it helps keep the cycle of failure and despair alive. I am not saying these things are not essential pieces to a recovery program. But someone who is as deeply entrenched as many in our church need professional interventions and emotional therapies. Recovery is not just repentance. Does that make sense? Sadly, too many bishops fail to understand this and can't understand why the using simply won't stop. I bet I could bring in thousands of LDS men who have done all these things for years without overcoming. And that is the tragedy of PA and why the shame and despair gets deeply entrenched as well. They are a scourge and we need and mulifacited approach to help people recover themselves. It's like trying to pray weeds out of your garden. Better to just get in there and do the hard work and pray as you go. You know?

If this is the case, then LS is wasting his time asking us for help. He needs to get counseling and start working on psychotherapeutic remedies. I assume his bishop could recommend a counselor through LDS Social Services, and perhaps even help with (or pick up) the bill if LS doesn't have the means to do so himself.

[LostSheep]

He needs to get counseling and start working on psychotherapeutic remedies

That figures. The "Get help" advice again. Easy to say when you live in a big city, or Utah.

[Misshalfway]

Vort, I understand your point. LS, I understand your impatience. But please tell me why it is that our LDS guys with PA go to church, serve missions, do countless acts of service, get married in the temple, serve in sometimes very high profile callings, and visit the bishop COUNTLESS times but still cannot lick the dang thing??

I am not saying prayer and service isn't great. I am not saying anyone can manage recovery without God's help. What I am saying is that getting professional help could make the difference between a 5 year or a 25 year recovery process. My therapist gave us this graph and I am mad I can't find it. But it outlined who was the most successful at recovery. The ones who rated highest were the ones who had a three pronged approach: spiritual, emotional, and behavioral.

PA is an emotional problem. Just getting rid of the internet will not solve the problem. Maybe there are some guys out there that did it alone with prayer and a good bishop. To them I say congrats. To LS, I ask How many times have you prayed? How many times have you visited the bishop? How long have you been battling? Would increasing the help make a difference?

[Vort]

That figures. The "Get help" advice again. Easy to say when you live in a big city, or Utah.

Sorry if you find this frustrating, LS, but what else are we to do? Your needs go well beyond anything we can help with. If you want to overcome this, I see three possibilities:

• Find someone locally who can help you.
• Go someplace where you can find someone to help you.
• Receive a miraculous healing such that the desires for evil habits are taken from your heart.

In my experience, #3 never, ever happens until #1 and #2 have been fully exhausted. God seldom does for us what we can do for ourselves.

Just my opinion; take it for what it's worth to you.

[Misshalfway]

That figures. The "Get help" advice again. Easy to say when you live in a big city, or Utah.

I hate to say it, but this is a big fat excuse.

[Connie]

If one really desires to change, they will be willing to go to any lengths to do it. You need help. We can't do anything for you. Only you can decide if you really want to change. You need the help of professionals as well as God. Please use both in your healing process. You cannot rely on your own strength, period.

[Misshalfway]

Sorry if you find this frustrating, LS, but what else are we to do? Your needs go well beyond anything we can help with. If you want to overcome this, I see three possibilities:

• Find someone locally who can help you.
• Go someplace where you can find someone to help you.
• Receive a miraculous healing such that the desires for evil habits are taken from your heart.

In my experience, #3 never, ever happens until #1 and #2 have been fully exhausted. God seldom does for us what we can do for ourselves.

Just my opinion; take it for what it's worth to you.

And number three doesn't happen over night generally. It happens in the trenches of daily repeated recovery effort. It happens one puzzle piece, one behavior, one lie turned to truth at a time. But I can absolutely say that such is possible. I am living the blessing of some of it right now.

[LostSheep]

I'm not trying to be thick headed...but a therepist isn't a realistic solution...That's for rich people. I don't want to have to go all the way to Portland just to find a good therepist who tries to convince me that the entire problem isn't even a problem. That I'm just being too hard on myself. Sure, an LDS therepist would be great, but there isn't any around here. This is a small town. And I don't think I could tell the therepist everything. There's things I've told no one, and I don't want to.

[HoosierGuy]

I am not saying prayer and service isn't great. I am not saying anyone can manage recovery without God's help. What I am saying is that getting professional help could make the difference between a 5 year or a 25 year recovery process.

You got that right. Prayer is good and can and does help. But there's a time when you have to get the help of a professional who is trained in these sort of things. For all our differences and different situations, others face the same problems and have overcome those problems. Therapist and professionals know how to help people in those situations.

A Church therapist or non Church therapist can help. And don't be so quick to write off medication. It does work. Stop wasting time and get to a therapist.

[Misshalfway]

I'm not trying to be thick headed...but a therepist isn't a realistic solution...That's for rich people. I don't want to have to go all the way to Portland just to find a good therepist who tries to convince me that the entire problem isn't even a problem. That I'm just being too hard on myself. Sure, an LDS therepist would be great, but there isn't any around here. This is a small town. And I don't think I could tell the therepist everything. There's things I've told no one, and I don't want to.

LS, honey, I have been with you since you started posting. How long has that been now? I have given you the best kind of support I know how to give. But today, all I am hearing is all the reasons you can't help yourself. And then you come here week after week complaining about how awful it is and asking for prayers and supports and words of wisdom and we tirelessly give it.

I am not your mom or your therapist. But I am your friend and sometimes being a friend means you need to tell someone the truth. And you need to get some help and stop complaining and get humble and get to work! You gotta report to someone who won't let you get away with stuff every week! You gotta do your workbook every week! You gotta complile a library of self help books and know them by heart! You gotta talk to a therapist every week!

When you do all that and it still doesn't work, then you come tell me how cursed you are. And don't give me all that balony about money. THe bishop paid for all our therapy for a good six months!!! There IS a way. YOU are the only thing blocking your own progress. And so what if your dad is the teacher. You have a built in support right there in your own family! Maybe it doesn't look or feel the way you want. Addicts are notorious for needing everything to feel comfortable before they move forward. But this could be the greatest gift staring you in the face. Maybe God is helping you and handing you life lines. What is God to do when you won't take what he offers?

I know what your going to say. I answered every question wrong.

Then when are you gonna make the answers right?

Edited December 9, 2009 by Misshalfway

[LostSheep]

Fine, then there's no reason to leave this thread open. Thanks for the advise.

[Connie]

I'm not trying to be thick headed...but a therepist isn't a realistic solution...That's for rich people. I don't want to have to go all the way to Portland just to find a good therepist who tries to convince me that the entire problem isn't even a problem. That I'm just being too hard on myself. Sure, an LDS therepist would be great, but there isn't any around here. This is a small town. And I don't think I could tell the therepist everything. There's things I've told no one, and I don't want to.

It seems to me you don't REALLY want to change. You're comfortable with your way of doing things. The cycle will never end if that's the case. I wish you gook luck. You right, an LDS therapist would be great but if that's not an option you may be able to find a good Christian therapist. Have you tried?

LDS.org - Ensign Article - “Yagottawannaâ€

[justaname]

"I already know what I need to do."

Ok, so go do it.

"Does anyone really care anymore?"

Dude, you really need to recognize something. . . Your original post sounds like this, "I have a problem with porn. I dont really want to stop. Maybe I should just look at more and give in."

Obviously a lot of people do care or they wouldnt have responded, but to be honest with you its hard to care when you don't seem to care yourself. If you know what you need to do, then stop looking for pity from people you dont even know and go do what you are talking about. Come back in a week and tell us how good you are doing.

[ryanh]

Well, this thread has taken quite a different turn since I first had an idea of what I wanted to share yesterday, but haven't been able to get to until now. I don't disagree with the turn of tone, and LS, I do think that the posts really have your best interest in mind. It may be a little bit of tough love, but it still is love.

In my big binder of inspirational stuff I have collected over time is the following story.

There is a story about a man who was asleep one night in his cabin when suddenly his room filled with 1ight and the Savior appeared. The Lord told him He had work for him to do, and showed him a large rock, explaining that he was to push against the rock with all his might. This the man did, and for many years he toiled from sun up to sun down, his shoulder set squarely against the cold, massive face of the rock pushing with all his might. Each night the man returned to his cabin sore and worn out, feeling that his whole day had been spent in vain.

Seeing that the man was showing signs of discouragement, Satan decided to enter the picture, placing thoughts into the mans mind such as, “Why kill yourself over this, you're never going to move it" or "Boy you've been at it here for a long time and you haven't even scratched the surface", etc, giving the man the impression that his task was impossible and that he was unworthy and an unprofitable servant because he wasn't moving the massive stone.

These thoughts discouraged and disheartened the man and he started to ease up in his efforts. "Why kill myself" he thought, I'll just put in my time putting forth just the minimum and that will be good enough". And that he did, or at least planned on doing until he decided to take his troubles to the Lord.

"Lord" he said, "I have labored long and hard in thy service, putting forth all my strength to do that which you have asked me, yet after all this time I haven't even budged that rock half a millimeter! What is wrong? Why am I failing?"

To this the Lord responded compassionately, "My Friend... when long ago I asked you to serve me and you accepted, I told you to push against the rock with all your strength, and that you have done. But never once did I mention unto you that I expected you to move it! At least not all by yourself. Your task was to push. And now you have come to me, your strength spent, thinking that you have failed and ready to quit. But is that really so? Look at yourself – your arms are strong and muscled, your back sinewed and brown, your hands are calloused and able to carry heavy loads from constant pressure, and your legs have become massive and hard. Through opposition you have grown much and your ability now far surpasses that which you used to have, yet you still haven't succeeded in moving the rock, and you come to me with a heavy heart and your strength spent. I my friend will move the rock. Your calling was to be obedient and to push, and to exercise your faith and trust in my wisdom, and this you have done.

Sometimes our weaknesses are not lifted in order that we may learn to become strong ourselves. It’s not a curse. It is something that we can be thankful for with the proper perspective.

Perhaps it is best that we not ask for trials to be lifted, for that could be seeking our own will, which may be contrary to His. But to ask that our shoulders and backs be strengthened to be able to do the work assigned to us.

I lost my mother 13 years ago next week. There is another woman that I consider to be a surrogate mother of sorts. She wrote to me recently in light of the idea that some trials are for our growth, not necessarily for us to overcome:

“I am sorry the [] saga continues, but you are going through something that will give you much eternal depth. [] without trials our lives here are nothing more than a one night stay in a 2nd class hotel. You are getting your money's worth on this journey.”

Be sure you are getting your money’s worth too LS by continuing to push every day. Even if you never overcome this problem in this life before passing on, so long as you were pushing to change, you will have grown in spiritual strength, and will qualify for the marriage to the Bridegroom – thereby overcoming all.

But, as people are trying to remind you - pushing with your might doesn't include giving up because of obstacles and difficulties. It includes pushing despite obstacles and difficulties. It isn't helpful to allow obstacles to become our focus of attention rather than maintaining the achievement of our goals as our focus. We will go where our vision/focus is directed.

[MaMeeshkaMow]

Positive thinking is a huge key. In my field of work (elementary resource teacher), the number one focus on how to get students to get better is encouragement or praise. Where unwanted behaviors are concerned, we take data to find those antecedents that cause/trigger certain behaviors (off task, etc). Combine the two here. I praise you for KNOWING there is a problem! You have a conscious, you know what you are doing is wrong, that is something!! To maintain a positive outlook about this problem, create in your mind a battlefield of day/night format. If you did not look at pornography in the day, you won that battle. If you did not look at pornography in the night, you won that battle. Keep in mind that the timeframe for the overall WAR is unknown (only God knows this). Focus on the daily battles. I would even write or tally all your victories (so 2 possible tallies for a whole day). From what I gather, you are winning the battles. You are doing more good than wrong. Focus on this like crazy!!

If you do slip, write down the antecedents or details of what happened before the slip up. For example, if you saw a Victoria Secret ad before the slip up, write that down. What you are going to focus on are patterns. Add spiritual things. Write down perhaps if you forgot to read the scriptures. From this information, you can begin to recognize patterns and therefore begin to understand when to have interventions. Interventions of course are the things you need to do so that the slip ups won't happen. For the Victoria Secret example, an intervention would be as soon as you see one second of the add, you turn off the tv.

Satan's pattern of misery is for you to ONLY focus on your slip-ups. Hey, these mortal bodies are carnal. Satan hates the fact that we have bodies so he's doing everything in his power to influence us to hate ourselves, even our bodies. The fact that you KNOW you are slipping up means the Devil hasn't won the war.

Don't give up!

[Misshalfway]

Fine, then there's no reason to leave this thread open. Thanks for the advise.

There is no reason to leave this thread open? What does that mean? That because people aren't showering you with sympathy and go-fight-win chants that there is no meaning left?

PA is a comfort seeking monster!! You use because you need comfort. After you use you need comfort too! And when the comfort stops for a moment and truth shines through, you get upset and shut the door. You know why? That is the addiction voice in you. Can you recognize that? I know it sucks to do it but doing it will bring you the success you want so badly. Stand up to it and call it what it is and then banish it.

This is what addiction thought does people. And giving all the sympathy feeds it. Fight it LS. Self pity and weakens you! Sympathy from others weakens you! You gotta fight this thing like Cap. Moroni. You get tough and pick up your sword and fight THROUGH the forest of discomforts until you get on the other side. Then you can learn to have REAL sustaining eternal comforts radiating from the INSIDE of you and you won't need to petition the outside world for it constantly.

I will tell you what. Any effort you give to a true recovery program no matter what configuration you choose, I will absolutely support. I will even support you on your down days inside that process as they will most surely come. I am a d*** good cheerleader. You should see my high kicks. But I can't support keeping you inside your comfort seeking cycle and I hope others here will join with me.

Try this website. Porn Addiction Info I have suggested it before. It is free and the people there know their stuff. They also have a great step by step intro that can help you start to create a recovery plan and prepare to join their supportive forums. Then they can help you progress. And the mods and other recovering participants can give you supports that we can't and you can still maintain anonymity and do it from your computer.

And one more thing concerning your wish not to talk about certain things with a therapist. I SO understand this and have been there. You don't have to. OK? No therapist worth their salt is going to force confessions out of you. Instead what they do is help you form the ability to look at and process your most painful thoughts and experiences. They help dismantle the shame in really safe ways. Secrets eat us alive from the inside out. If not properly processed, they keep us medicating because they are not being listened to or dealt with. It's ok to start trusting someone else. Soon, you won't need to carry all these burdens and protect all these horrors. They will fade into the beautiful fabric of recovery and wisdom and you may realize they weren't as horrible as you had once decided. By the way, The Savior comes to those therapy sessions with healing in his wings!

Edited December 9, 2009 by Misshalfway

[Connie]

Positive thinking is a huge key. In my field of work (elementary resource teacher), the number one focus on how to get students to get better is encouragement or praise. Where unwanted behaviors are concerned, we take data to find those antecedents that cause/trigger certain behaviors (off task, etc). Combine the two here. I praise you for KNOWING there is a problem! You have a conscious, you know what you are doing is wrong, that is something!! To maintain a positive outlook about this problem, create in your mind a battlefield of day/night format. If you did not look at pornography in the day, you won that battle. If you did not look at pornography in the night, you won that battle. Keep in mind that the timeframe for the overall WAR is unknown (only God knows this). Focus on the daily battles. I would even write or tally all your victories (so 2 possible tallies for a whole day). From what I gather, you are winning the battles. You are doing more good than wrong. Focus on this like crazy!!

If you do slip, write down the antecedents or details of what happened before the slip up. For example, if you saw a Victoria Secret ad before the slip up, write that down. What you are going to focus on are patterns. Add spiritual things. Write down perhaps if you forgot to read the scriptures. From this information, you can begin to recognize patterns and therefore begin to understand when to have interventions. Interventions of course are the things you need to do so that the slip ups won't happen. For the Victoria Secret example, an intervention would be as soon as you see one second of the add, you turn off the tv.

Satan's pattern of misery is for you to ONLY focus on your slip-ups. Hey, these mortal bodies are carnal. Satan hates the fact that we have bodies so he's doing everything in his power to influence us to hate ourselves, even our bodies. The fact that you KNOW you are slipping up means the Devil hasn't won the war.

Don't give up!

I really, really like this. I hope you don't mind me copying it down for my own personal use in overcoming my own weaknesses.

[LostSheep]

Fine, I'll open up.

Confession:

Almost every time I mess up, I repeat the same pattern...I close all the browsing windows, I delete history and temporary files, I open FireFox back up, and stare at the blank Google homepage. Then my thoughts creep up on me. And I'm scared of them. I don';t want to be alone with them, so I either look for friends on MSN to talk to, people in the LDS.net chat room, or at some of my weaker moments, random christian websites. Let me just say, I am not someone I would choose to be friends with. Lets be honest. I'm a selfish person. I demand far more then I give from my friends, and I'm constantly complaining about my "terrible" life, instead of listening to others advice and trials. I try to make myself feel better about what I did by telling others I'm sorry. I hate my self too much to comfort myself, so I rely on others to do it. And honestly, I usually AM sorry. But I can't bring myself to talk to God about it at the time.

Therepy:

The reason I wanted to close this thread is because I saw a dead end. Therepy (I'm sorry, I spell the word wrong every time) is the only answer I get. What more is there to discuss? As helpful as the advise may be, the addict part of me gets angry at the advise, as it's not a "quick-fix" solution. I know I'm NEVER going to find a quick fix solution. The other reason I'm scared of the therepy solution (And as lame as this excuse sounds, I swear it's how I feel) is it not only make ME feel powerless, but it makes me feel like God is powerless as well. As if I'm in a situation that requires me, God, AND an therepist to get out. No other way. Other than that, I really don't know why I hate the idea. I guess because that option includes getting my parents involved.

Negative Attitude:

After an honest evaluation of my attitude, here's what I came up with. I don't hate myself. I really don't. When I act like I do, don't be fooled. That is the addict part of me talking. Here's why I think I do it. I could be wrong, and if you think I am, go ahead and correct me. I guess If I judge myself, and beat up myself, and hate myself, then by tthe time I'm done with myself, there's not much more room for judgement. Only sympathy. I guess I figure I'd rather beat myself up, then have someone else do it for me.

Positive Attitude:

Why don't I celebrate the good, and only concentrate on the bad? Well, I guess

the reason for it, is I don't see much celebrate in most of the time. For example. As of now, It's been 24 hours since I messed up. 24 hours doesn't sound like an achievement. It sounds like a joke. Why would I celebrate going that short a time? I mean, is three days even cause to celebrate?

My head is flowing with thoughts right now. I fear I didn't say everything I wanted to say, and that the things I did say, I phrased wrong. There. I've exposed a wound to the flies, so to speak. I'm as vulnerable as ever. I pretty much just told you that the only reason I'm here, is for pity. I don't know whether that's true or not. I don't really know anything about myself right now.

I am being as truthful as possible right now. I'm not looking for sympathy or love. I guess I'm just looking for myself.