Breakdown of society

[Traveler]

This is the year our married children spend with the other in-laws. So, on a whim my wife and I went with our only unmarried adult child and decided to spend the holidays in Sun Valley. I had never been to Sun Valley and we all thought this might be a fun outing. Christmas morning turned out to be quite an interesting adventure. When we woke up there was no power anywhere in Sun Valley. When there is no electrical power in a resort it creates a lot of confusion.

The first note of interest is that no credit cards work. There are other things that do not work – like much of the heat that uses electricity or electrical pilot lights. In the resort area all the land line phones did not work and most cell phone towers were down so few cell phones worked. Many people at the resort did not carry any cash so suddenly nobody had any money to buy services.

In general there was panic. I believe this panic was mostly triggered by the more wealthy guests that suddenly found they had nothing to negotiate with; plus most wealthy rely on their money and others to cater to them. Keep in mind this is Christmas morning – you know the good will towards men day. To be sure where ever there was any effort to help at the resort there were vast numbers of people scrambling for whatever they could get. At the main hotel they were offering free breakfast for the guests. This was mainly because there was no way to check who was who or any way to use a credit card. Within minutes all the food had been snatched up even though there was enough for all most went without. Many of the guests took large amounts of food (many took like 9 cups of coffee) most of which ended up wasted. But there was no effort to help others or to share. I spent some time talking to the manager at the lodge and he told me of threats that many of his workers had to endure by guest demanding stuff. He told me that I was the only one at resort that offered to help.

By late afternoon some power was restored and with that some order. Interesting how a little modern convenience like electricity can break down social order when it shuts down. I have pondered if I got a glimpse into what may someday occur and thought about how all the emergency preparedness training among LDS wards and stakes may come into play.

Some thoughts

The Traveler

[talisyn]

Fascinating, Traveler. What's really sad is that if your fellow resort guests drove the 75 miles or so to Twin Falls they would have found some great Asian buffets open. We didn't lose power down here in the valley, it was just in the Hailey area. The picture I'm getting is panic and a little chaos, with peace and warm food just a short drive away. Give me a moment and I'll think of a really good way to pertain that to the Latter Days and the Gospel

[Traveler]

Fascinating, Traveler. What's really sad is that if your fellow resort guests drove the 75 miles or so to Twin Falls they would have found some great Asian buffets open. We didn't lose power down here in the valley, it was just in the Hailey area. The picture I'm getting is panic and a little chaos, with peace and warm food just a short drive away. Give me a moment and I'll think of a really good way to pertain that to the Latter Days and the Gospel

Things were not out of control but like you say some panic and chaos. Many guests flew into the resort area and did not have access to transportation. Most locals seem to take the event in stride and look back at what happened with some humor.

What was most interesting to me are the numbers that became demanding and angry with those trying to help. Several times I commented to complainers that it is most foolish in a desperate situation to get angry at the only help available.

The Traveler

[Hemidakota]

This is the year our married children spend with the other in-laws. So, on a whim my wife and I went with our only unmarried adult child and decided to spend the holidays in Sun Valley. I had never been to Sun Valley and we all thought this might be a fun outing. Christmas morning turned out to be quite an interesting adventure. When we woke up there was no power anywhere in Sun Valley. When there is no electrical power in a resort it creates a lot of confusion.

The first note of interest is that no credit cards work. There are other things that do not work – like much of the heat that uses electricity or electrical pilot lights. In the resort area all the land line phones did not work and most cell phone towers were down so few cell phones worked. Many people at the resort did not carry any cash so suddenly nobody had any money to buy services.

In general there was panic. I believe this panic was mostly triggered by the more wealthy guests that suddenly found they had nothing to negotiate with; plus most wealthy rely on their money and others to cater to them. Keep in mind this is Christmas morning – you know the good will towards men day. To be sure where ever there was any effort to help at the resort there were vast numbers of people scrambling for whatever they could get. At the main hotel they were offering free breakfast for the guests. This was mainly because there was no way to check who was who or any way to use a credit card. Within minutes all the food had been snatched up even though there was enough for all most went without. Many of the guests took large amounts of food (many took like 9 cups of coffee) most of which ended up wasted. But there was no effort to help others or to share. I spent some time talking to the manager at the lodge and he told me of threats that many of his workers had to endure by guest demanding stuff. He told me that I was the only one at resort that offered to help.

By late afternoon some power was restored and with that some order. Interesting how a little modern convenience like electricity can break down social order when it shuts down. I have pondered if I got a glimpse into what may someday occur and thought about how all the emergency preparedness training among LDS wards and stakes may come into play.

Some thoughts

The Traveler

Ok! I know I am old but the font size is TOO SMALL TO READ!!!!!

[Hemidakota]

Wow! Now that is sad to see people reaction during a simple power outage. What a reminder how simple things go wrong can create chaos for the masses.

[Dravin]

Wow! Now that is sad to see people reaction during a simple power outage. What a reminder how simple things go wrong can create chaos for the masses.

Just watch a credit/debit card machine or line go down and the chaos it causes. Widespread utility shortages are not required. Actually, just work at the Post Office at Christmas, all it takes is a shortage of patience and chaos ensues. :)

[NeuroTypical]

Good gravy people. Is it that hard to have some bottled water and food in your stuff?

[Hemidakota]

Remember the Johnny Carson incident when he stated there is a toilet paper shortage on the Tonight Show? What happened over the next couple days caused people to panic and run to the store in buying out any remainder toilet paper.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Hemidakota

[DigitalShadow]

Good gravy people. Is it that hard to have some bottled water and food in your stuff?

When is the last time you flew? Haven't you heard that carrying bottled water on a plane means you are obviously a terrorist.

[Elphaba]

Fascinating, Traveler. What's really sad is that if your fellow resort guests drove the 75 miles or so to Twin Falls they would have found some great Asian buffets open. We didn't lose power down here in the valley, it was just in the Hailey area. The picture I'm getting is panic and a little chaos, with peace and warm food just a short drive away. Give me a moment and I'll think of a really good way to pertain that to the Latter Days and the Gospel

talisyn, I lived one of the worst three months of my life in Jerome, ID. This was back in the late '60s so you weren't around then. But oh my larry, what a traumatizing experience that was! :p

Elph

[Dravin]

When is the last time you flew? Haven't you heard that carrying bottled water on a plane means you are obviously a terrorist.

So you're saying this water bottle might be a bad idea?

[Hemidakota]

Or nail clippers as a weapon...

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by Traveler: Some thoughts.

Interesting. New York City had a major blackout in 2003, and people were very helpful, in spite of no elevators, high summer heat, and the fear that it might be a terrorist attack. According to Ken Nelson at the City Room:

Despite the obvious hardships — the heat, the hikes down office tower steps — the blackout brought a lot people together. Andrew Keane from Highland Mills, N.Y. turned into an impromptu traffic cop. Apartment dwellers like Peter Chernin barbequed with his neighbors at West 47th and Eighth Avenue. Strangers huddled around Mark Barney’s battery-operated transistor radio in front of his 42nd Street apartment. Without refrigerators, Tom Downey, the manager at Muldoon’s Irish Pub on Third Avenue, served all his cold beer to parched patrons.

I think people are generally decent and when something drastic happens, especially if it’s traumatic, they come together to help anyone who truly needs it. I can’t think of one person I know who would not do anything possible to help another human being who needed it, unless they happen to be overwhelmed and burdened in their own lives.

I don't think one incident in Sun Valley, Idaho heralds the breakdown of society.

Elphaba

Edited January 1, 2010 by Elphaba
It finally happened! I edited when I thought I was quoting. Sorry Elphaba!

[Dravin]

I don't think one incident in Sun Valley, Idaho heralds the breakdown of society.

I think you just don't appreciate how much a trend setter Idaho is.

P.S. I restored what I could of your post. Looks like some editing was lost, I'd try to fix it but I fear another brainfart on my part.

[talisyn]

talisyn, I lived one of the worst three months of my life in Jerome, ID. This was back in the late '60s so you weren't around then. But oh my larry, what a traumatizing experience that was! :p

Elph

I believe you, I've been to Jerome too

[Elphaba]

I think you just don't appreciate how much a trend setter Idaho is.

Actually, I think you're right. I know two couples who retired to Boise, not only because it is so beautiful there, but because it is also has the potential for growth while remaining pristine. They were also attracted to the artistic community, particularly in writing.

P.S. I restored what I could of your post. Looks like some editing was lost, I'd try to fix it but I fear another brainfart on my part.

No worries. You didn't mangle it that badly.

Elph

[NeuroTypical]

So you're saying this water bottle might be a bad idea?

The last time we flew, I actually had the TSA website page printed out that said my wife could have her knitting needles. One fairly unhappy lady was told by her supervisor to let us on.

knit, knit, knit, ALLAHU AKBAHR knit, knit.

LM

[Elphaba]

The last time we flew, I actually had the TSA website page printed out that said my wife could have her knitting needles. One fairly unhappy lady was told by her supervisor to let us on.

knit, knit, knit, ALLAHU AKBAHR knit, knit.

LM

I laughed at the image of your wife's knitting needles not being a threat; however it could be very unfunny as well. I can see how her knitting needles could be lethal in the hands of the insane shouters of Allahu Akbahr out there.

I think that's how you meant it, though I'm not sure.

Elphaba

[RanMan]

I think perhaps this thread has it a bit backwards. I don't think that this incident marks the end or will set a trend, but as we move closer to the time of troubles that will preceed the Millenium, I think incidents like this will become increasingly more common. Not that I want to scare anyone with it, but what is described by the prophets who have spoke on the subject depict a pretty rough state of affairs for anyone living through it.

[NeuroTypical]

One doesn't need prophets and thoughts on end-times to understand that it's good to be prepared. This instance is not by any stretch of the imagination an isolated instance or a one time event. In 1st world countries, these sorts of things happen a lot less, but they still happen. My neighborhood routinely gets snowed in for 2-3 days at a time, once or twice every winter. Sometimes it's accompanied with a power outage.

All of our light-hearted banter about how hard it is to smuggle bottled water through airport security aside, the scripture holds true: if ye are prepared ye shall not fear.

LM

[Traveler]

First off I do not mean to overstate anything. What happened at Sun Valley was not a breakdown of worldwide society - Please do not think that. My experience is that the locals of Idaho handled what happened without much concern.

There was no more breakdown than what I described. No one was killed. What I had hoped to portray is what happens to those that depend on credit cards, cell phones and wealth as a means of defining social status. I realize that what happened at Sun Valley were only a few hours. My point was to demonstrate what can happen within just a few hours when people feel threatened despite all the things one would thing would inspire cooler heads.

My point is that the greatest threat to this country is not some kind of disaster but the current mentality prevalent in society as to what is thought at the time to be the best way for individuals to respond. And the second thing is that there are no "safety nets" to keep a bad situation from getting worse. The default is to panic when others panic.

The Traveler

[Elphaba]

First off I do not mean to overstate anything. What happened at Sun Valley was not a breakdown of worldwide society -

Then you shouldn't have titled your post '"Breakdown of Society."

to those that depend on . . . cell phones . . .

I meant to comment on the cell phones in my last post, but forgot. I do not believe the cell phones did not work.

Every single cell phone tower has extremely powerful backup generators in case the electrical grid goes down. These generators automatically turn on if the power goes out.

Additionally, there is a second backup generator in case the first one fails.

This is standard on all cell phone towers as it is required by the industry. One reason is that most cell phone towers are leased by one carrier, and then other carriers lease space on the original cell phone tower. When all of these carriers must comply with industry standards, it is obvious all cell phone towers have to have these backup systems.

So, I do not believe everyone lost their cell phone signals. It's simply impossible their phones would not work when the power was out for such a relatively short period of time. The generators would have kicked in.

Elphaba

[Moksha]

I think you just don't appreciate how much a trend setter Idaho is.

As Pocatello goes, so goes the nation.