Interfaith Marriage

[prisonchaplain]

Choose the answer that stretches your tolerance--the one you have to grit your teeth for, but would ultimately agree to.

Forgive the fact that I have done no research on the LDS view on intermarriage. So your answers will be truly informative to me. Also, as always, I will give you my views once this string takes off a bit.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Nov 17 2005, 12:05 AM

Choose the answer that stretches your tolerance--the one you have to grit your teeth for, but would ultimately agree to.

Forgive the fact that I have done no research on the LDS view on intermarriage.  So your answers will be truly informative to me.  Also, as always, I will give you my views once this string takes off a bit.

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I just think marriage is hard enough without having more 'differences' and things to be disappointed in... I voted to stay with in our denomination. It especially makes it easier when raising kids...

[Guest Ari 2]

I voted for:

Anyone who makes my child happy, and gives every appearance of being responsible, loving, and not at all likely to end up facing the outer darkness.

We know that marrying anyone, there are no guarantees. I agree, the fewer the differences, the better. But I'd rather see my child happily married to someone outside the faith, than be miserable being married to someone in the faith.

[Snow]

I doubt any Momrons think of any other church like Community of Christ (RLDS) to be of the same religious family. Maybe Christians in general but either you are a Mormon proper or you are not...

[pushka]

I chose the same answer as Ari, however it is really quite a difficult one when you look at it closely, because in the end I wouldn't turn my back on my child whomever he/she decided to marry.

I would hope that my children would be able to discuss their relationship with me in such a way that we could decide between us if the person they're with is okay or is abusing them either emotionally or physically, and that they would value my judgement as much as their own in deciding this. I'm not wishing to sound like an 'intefering mother' but I wish that I had listened more to my family's warnings about the person I eventually married, as I ended up staying married to him for 11 years, most of which were unhappy, just because I wasn't confident enough to drop him when our relationship was not so great before we married, and wasn't confident, until years later, to walk out on the marriage when it was definitely doomed to disaster!!

[Guest LDSister]

Originally posted by pushka@Nov 17 2005, 03:13 AM

I chose the same answer as Ari, however it is really quite a difficult one when you look at it closely, because in the end I wouldn't turn my back on my child whomever he/she decided to marry.

I would hope that my children would be able to discuss their relationship with me in such a way that we could decide between us if the person they're with is okay or is abusing them either emotionally or physically, and that they would value my judgement as much as their own in deciding this.  I'm not wishing to sound like an 'intefering mother' but I wish that I had listened more to my family's warnings about the person I eventually married, as I ended up staying married to him for 11 years, most of which were unhappy, just because I wasn't confident enough to drop him when our relationship was not so great before we married, and wasn't confident, until years later, to walk out on the marriage when it was definitely doomed to disaster!!

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____________________

Wow! Your story sounds identical to mine. I agree with what you said...very sound wisdom.

[shanstress70]

I'm no longer LDS, but I answered anyway - similarly to Pushka and Ari. As long as he finds someone who is a good person, treats him well, and makes him happy, I don't care what she is!

[prisonchaplain]

Once again, the comes off! I voted for #2. Perhaps the question does not work as well for LDS members, since, one poster pointed out, there are no close religious cousins in the movement.

By way of explanation, from my youth I was taught by my church the importance of not being "unequally yoked." Why date someone the Bible says you cannot marry? So, we do not date non-Christians. When a couple marry, they become "one flesh." The Apostle Paul also asks the rhetorical question, "What has light to do with darkness?"

As a clergy person, my leadership allows me to officiate the marriage of two unbelievers, or of two believers. However, should I knowingly bless the marriage of a believer to an unbeliever, my ordination credentials would be revoked.

So, for my own children--all girls five and under--I plan to train them in these truths. They should only date fellow believers in Christ. They most certainly should only marry fellow believers--and only one's who's faith walk they respect.

Of course, should my daughters go prodigal, and at legal age inform me of their intentions to do otherwise, I will not disown them or refuse love and support. However, neither will I bless or encourage what they do. Such situations tear at the heart of parents. They also help us to understand how we so often tear at the heart of our heavenly Father.

[Guest LDSister]

My answer was based upon personal experience...understanding that even tho one might marry within their faith, you never know what you're going to end up with lol. The old saying is, "Before marriage, keep your eyes wide open...after marriage, keep them half shut." Good luck raising your daughters, chaplain...my brother also has 5 daughters...it's been a real eye opener. lol

[lisajo]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Nov 17 2005, 11:46 AM

Once again, the    comes off!  I voted for #2.  Perhaps the question does not work as well for LDS members, since, one poster pointed out, there are no close religious cousins in the movement.

By way of explanation, from my youth I was taught by my church the importance of not being "unequally yoked."  Why date someone the Bible says you cannot marry?  So, we do not date non-Christians.  When a couple marry, they become "one flesh."  The Apostle Paul also asks the rhetorical question, "What has light to do with darkness?"

As a clergy person, my leadership allows me to officiate the marriage of two unbelievers, or of two believers.  However, should I knowingly bless the marriage of a believer to an unbeliever, my ordination credentials would be revoked.

So, for my own children--all girls five and under--I plan to train them in these truths.  They should only date fellow believers in Christ.  They most certainly should only marry fellow believers--and only one's who's faith walk they respect.

Of course, should my daughters go prodigal, and at legal age inform me of their intentions to do otherwise, I will not disown them or refuse love and support.  However, neither will I bless or encourage what they do.  Such situations tear at the heart of parents.  They also help us to understand how we so often tear at the heart of our heavenly Father.

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Well Chap i must say, you have a better range if your saying any christian, .....Any way i voted that i want my son's to be happy....But i would hope it was a christian girl, I would Rather of course they marry LDS, and be sealed in the temple for all time and eternity, I think as LDS most do feel that way...but when it comes to who my child chooses to marry i must say....The choice is not mine

[prisonchaplain]

Well Chap i must say, you have a better range if your saying any christian, .....Any way i voted that i want  my son's to be happy....But i would hope it was a christian girl,  I would Rather of course they marry LDS, and be sealed in the temple for all time and eternity, I think as LDS most do feel that way...but when it comes to who my child chooses to marry i must say....The choice is not mine

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I was hoping somebody would bring this matter up. Quite frankly, I guessed that a much higher percentage would vote for the top pick, because of your beliefs about marriage being sealed in the temple.

By way of disclosure, I stole my wife from the Presbyterians. Ironically, her background better prepared her for Pentecostalism in the U.S., than it would have for American Presbyterianism. Also, although I would be satisfied for my daughters to marry a believer from another denomination, my advice to them would be to find a church they could both grow and be happy in. Hopping back and forth from one church to another is a recipe for spiritual confusion, IMHO.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

lisajo :

Well Chap i must say, you have a better range if your saying any christian, .....Any way i voted that i want my son's to be happy....But i would hope it was a christian girl, I would Rather of course they marry LDS, and be sealed in the temple for all time and eternity, I think as LDS most do feel that way...but when it comes to who my child chooses to marry i must say....The choice is not mine

I agree with you lisajo... and I would say this also which has been said by others: I would never ever abandon my child... no matter who they marry...

BUT: I have raised them to be sure they get a spiritual confirmation on whomever they marry. So far I have only had my oldest marry and when they said they were getting married and had a confirmation... I asked the Lord for one also... He gave it to me... told me that this girl had been prepared for my son... that was all I needed to know... and they are sooo good together... perfect.. even... LOL

and they were sealed in the Columbus Ohio temple..

[tngu]

I chose the 4th choice. I am not married to a mormon and I am so glad my parents weren't one of the first two choices. Of course they wanted me to be married in the temple, but they also want me to be happy. They too would rather see me married to someone outside the church and be happy and fulfilled then see me married inside the church and being miserable. My husband is Presbyterian so I think they were glad he was at least christian.

[pushka]

Originally posted by LDSister+Nov 17 2005, 02:21 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-pushka@Nov 17 2005, 03:13 AM

I chose the same answer as Ari, however it is really quite a difficult one when you look at it closely, because in the end I wouldn't turn my back on my child whomever he/she decided to marry.

I would hope that my children would be able to discuss their relationship with me in such a way that we could decide between us if the person they're with is okay or is abusing them either emotionally or physically, and that they would value my judgement as much as their own in deciding this.  I'm not wishing to sound like an 'intefering mother' but I wish that I had listened more to my family's warnings about the person I eventually married, as I ended up staying married to him for 11 years, most of which were unhappy, just because I wasn't confident enough to drop him when our relationship was not so great before we married, and wasn't confident, until years later, to walk out on the marriage when it was definitely doomed to disaster!!

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____________________

Wow! Your story sounds identical to mine. I agree with what you said...very sound wisdom.

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Thank you Ari...you know, we all have to learn from our mistakes don't we? and I think it's a good thing if we can at least guide our children to be aware of the pitfalls of being 'blindly' in love!

[USNationalist]

....i messed up. I picked the most preferable one. heh.

[Guest LDSister]

Originally posted by pushka@Nov 17 2005, 08:24 PM

Thank you Ari...you know, we all have to learn from our mistakes don't we?  and I think it's a good thing if we can at least guide our children to be aware of the pitfalls of being 'blindly' in love!

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Thank you, pushka...and yes, being a parent is quite a challenge. You said a mouthful, "blindly" lol.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Nov 17 2005, 02:20 PM

I was hoping somebody would bring this matter up.  Quite frankly, I guessed that a much higher percentage would vote for the top pick, because of your beliefs about marriage being sealed in the temple.

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The top two picks were IMHO just a little too radical for my liking. After all, there are good people of all faiths ...or non faiths....in this world. As much as I would want to have that dream of #'s 1 & 2.....Reality has to have a say in the matter to me..... I couldn't keep my children in a glass bubble, letting them only experience what I wanted them too, after a certain age...they have to be able to see the real world and those that live within it.

I voted: Anyone who makes my child happy, and gives every appearance of being responsible, loving, and not at all likely to end up facing the outer darkness.

I am a die hard .....,,, I never give up hope that things will turn out for the best, I'd just like to have that little edge over the last one...Anyone my child chooses.

[dontagreeljefe]

Originally posted by Ari 2@Nov 17 2005, 12:05 AM

I voted for:

Anyone who makes my child happy, and gives every appearance of being responsible, loving, and not at all likely to end up facing the outer darkness.

We know that marrying anyone, there are no guarantees. I agree, the fewer the differences, the better. But I'd rather see my child happily married to someone outside the faith, than be miserable being married to someone in the faith.

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Joseph F Smith said he would rather bury a child than have them marry outside the true and loving covenant. People use an lds jerk and a nonlds nice guy. President Kimball said it doesnt mean that all members are worthy and nonmebers unworthy you cant take a nonmember to the temple.

People who fall for that trap are using one example. There are a few bad ones. But just because one priesthood holder is a jerk does not mean they all are. And just because there are nice nonlds people doesnt mean some are jerks. People use that one bad example as an excuse to marry out of the covenant.

[dontagreeljefe]

Originally posted by Member_Deleted@Nov 17 2005, 02:27 PM

lisajo :

Well Chap i must say, you have a better range if your saying any christian, .....Any way i voted that i want my son's to be happy....But i would hope it was a christian girl, I would Rather of course they marry LDS, and be sealed in the temple for all time and eternity, I think as LDS most do feel that way...but when it comes to who my child chooses to marry i must say....The choice is not mine

I agree with you lisajo... and I would say this also which has been said by others: I would never ever abandon my child... no matter who they marry...

BUT: I have raised them to be sure they get a spiritual confirmation on whomever they marry. So far I have only had my oldest marry and when they said they were getting married and had a confirmation... I asked the Lord for one also... He gave it to me... told me that this girl had been prepared for my son... that was all I needed to know... and they are sooo good together... perfect.. even... LOL

and they were sealed in the Columbus Ohio temple..

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Bruce R McConkie never asked the lord who he should marry. Found the right person and married her. Said should of done some counseling with the lord on the matter. One thing is for sure it has already been revealed by prophets we should marry in the temple. I don't know any church leader that said its ok not too. Doctrine and Covenants 1:38 wether by my voice or the voice of my servants it is the same. So the spirit will never tell anyone to marry someone they cannot take to the temple since he won't tell the prophet one thing and then tell an individual to disobey him.

In a talk I cant remember offhand were Spencer W Kimball said to be broadminded with the lords eternal program is like being generous with someone else;s money.

[fusudocmd]

I agree with the prophet Joseph F. Smith which said, "I would rather bury a child than to have one marry outside the covenant." If your excuse is that a non lds is nice and would be a good father and husband, is he really a Father in God's eyes? If they aren't covenanted with the Father in the temple, are they really Fathers? That being a keyword, a non mentioned part of the Priesthood, "Father" is as much as an order of the Priesthood as Elder or High Priest just as Mother also is. Anyone can be a biological father, but to spiritually attain a place in that childs life as a Father even in God's eyes he must make covenances with the Father in heaven so that the Father in heaven can bestow that blessing upon his child making even him a Father. Just as all orders of the Priesthood require covenances with God, so does Father and Mother. which are the highest covenances we can make in this mortal ministry that Christ has restored through his faithful prophet even Joseph Smith Jr. I am not saying that when a man becomes a Father he makes covenances, but when he marries he makes them, and when a child is born to him, those covenances are fulfilled. Think about Marraige as a starting point and a child being born to you as one of the ways the Father blesses you. Then think of how when you get Baptized and how that is a starting point, then when you receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost, that is a blessing, now thing of when you have the Gift of the Holy Ghost, then you receive blessings every time you receive personal revelation. It is quite the same in making covenances and you receive blessings from those covenances. The children are added to your posterity and also to your ancestors. I humbly say these thing in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

[pushka]

Well said Soulsearcher!

[dontagreeljefe]

Originally posted by Soulsearcher@Nov 24 2005, 10:52 AM

If your excuse is that a non lds is nice and would be a good father and husband, is he really a Father in God's eyes? If they aren't covenanted with the Father in the temple, are they really Fathers?

I will be honest, this got me angry. almost the entire post got me angry. What makes you a father, a good father, is your love and devotion to your child. The temple or faith means nothing when it comes to being a true parent. Can it help you be a good parent, yes. Is it the only way to be a true parent, not a chance.

I have seen many " good Lds priesthood holders" who have no bloody clue how much damage they do to their children cause they have the heads so far up their own backsides. Are these men truly "Fathers" because they have the covenant?

I think this is a slap in the face of every "Mother" and "Father" who has ever born a child outside the faith, telling them some how they aren't good enough. That the good parents out there who sacrifice and devote so much to their children, are something less because they are outside your church.

"Father" or "Mother" isn't a title on this earth, it's an obligation and a gift. Only those who earn it deserve it, and you don't earn it by covenants, you earn it by giving all you have every waking second for your children.

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So you are saying the prophet is wrong. You are using the excuse of some men that don't honor your priesthood. You can only get sealed in the temple is that very important Dallin H Oaks said if someone has a bad experience with electricity do you stop using it.

Cree L Kofford in either june or july 98 ensign said prophet said to get married in temple shouldnt that be good enough reason. Could you say I love you lets get married though we won't be together after 50 years. Heard president hinckley say something like that. Eternal marriage is the lords way and is only available for those who qualify themselves for the temple. Why be upset with someone telling you what the lord said on the matter.

[prisonchaplain]

I think both posters in this particular exchange missed the fact that they were talking to people with drastically different world views.

Soul Searcher says:  I will be honest, this got me angry.  almost the entire post got me angry.  What makes you a father, a good father, is your love and devotion to your child.  The temple or faith means nothing when it comes to being a true parent.  Can it help you be a good parent, yes.  Is it the only way to be a true parent, not a chance.

Soul Searcher: As one not commited to a particular "organized religion," it makes sense to me that the weight you give faith, in terms of parenting is limited. However, for those committed to the truth of a given faith system, raising a child in that observance is vital. Most Christian churches have either infant baptism or baby dedication. The spiritual leader asks, "Will you raise this child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord?" The child is God's, and we are stewards, charged with caring for her.

Granted, if one is a molester, an abuser, a hothead, a constant berater, etc., the spirituality will be lost. However, researchers have determined, at least in the greater Christian community, is that the most abusive parents are not the strongly religious, but the one's who claim adherence to a faith, but do not participate in regular religious programs.

As a Christian, one of my greatest heartbreaks would be if my daughter were to bring home an unbeliever, and he were to ask for her hand in marriage. I would still love her, and might respect the boy. However, don't ask me to be joyful if my child chooses to betray her faith in one of the most vital decisions she will ever make.

So you are saying the prophet is wrong.  You are using the excuse of some men that don't honor your priesthood.  You can only get sealed in the temple is that very important  Dallin H Oaks said if someone has a bad experience with electricity do you stop using it.

I suppose he is. He's an agnostic. Why wouldn't he? Just as believers would hope that unbelievers would grasp the importance of our faith and morality to us, even if they do not agree, we should be congnizant of the agnostic and athiest's unwillingness to submit to codes of behavior and thought that are grounded in spirituality.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Nov 24 2005, 04:18 PM

I suppose he is.  He's an agnostic.  Why wouldn't he?  Just as believers would hope that unbelievers would grasp the importance of our faith and morality to us, even if they do not agree, we should be congnizant of the agnostic and athiest's unwillingness to submit to codes of behavior and thought that are grounded in spirituality.

Thought to be grounded in spirituality? I doubt the religious or spiritual community has a patent on morality. I'm sure there are many agnostics and athiests out there that are just as moral (maybe even more) than your average church goer.

dontagreeljefe and fusudocmd are showing such audacity to suggest that only true Fathers are those you are priesthood holders of the LDS religion.

M.

[dontagreeljefe]

Originally posted by Maureen+Nov 24 2005, 06:03 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-prisonchaplain@Nov 24 2005, 04:18 PM

I suppose he is.  He's an agnostic.  Why wouldn't he?  Just as believers would hope that unbelievers would grasp the importance of our faith and morality to us, even if they do not agree, we should be congnizant of the agnostic and athiest's unwillingness to submit to codes of behavior and thought that are grounded in spirituality.

Thought to be grounded in spirituality? I doubt the religious or spiritual community has a patent on morality. I'm sure there are many agnostics and athiests out there that are just as moral (maybe even more) than your average church goer.

dontagreeljefe and fusudocmd are showing such audacity to suggest that only true Fathers are those you are priesthood holders of the LDS religion.

M.

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A father and mother married in the temple and true to there covenants will be the only one;s that have claim upon there posterity for time and all eternity. Every other relationship ends at death. Temple work is for those that did not have the oppurtunity in this life. Sure it may be done but if someone refused to accept it in this life will they in the next? Section 76 of the doctrine and covenants says people who heard the gosel in this life and don't accept it will go to the terrestial kingdom the honorable people that is if they dont accept the gospel here when offered.