Parents Saving Their Children

[GaySaint]

“The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.”

Conference Report, Apr. 1929, 110.

I can see how parents of a wayward child would take solace in this beautiful teaching by Joseph Smith, but on my mission, we never came to a conclusion as to what it really meant.

Does it mean exaltation?

What exactly is the definition of “saved” in this quote?

We all know, by our faith and good works in the pre-existence, that we will all achieve salvation of our physical bodies through resurrection. That is a gift to all who walk this earth, no matter their personal level of righteousness now – so THAT definition of salvation can’t be the one this quote was referring to. It seems that the definition in this quote would have to refer to something more… something a child could NOT achieve without faithful parents.

Any ideas?

And what of those children excommunicated, who no longer have access to their parent’s sealings?

[Gatorman]

As I understand it, the childs exco does not break the sealing. I believe the promise is that that bound cannot be broken

[NeuroTypical]

I figure that since he starts out talking about Sealings, then yes, he's talking about exhaltation. It's true that you have to do more thinking about what 'saved' means in this faith, than in other Christian faiths.

One thing that always gets me: The entire paragraph rests solely on one tiny little word containing only two letters.

"if" (It's hard to see - right there in the middle of the fifth line. But everything hangs on it.)

I think understanding the importance of that word, pretty much answers your other questions.

Good thread.

LM

[Blackmarch]

“The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.”

Conference Report, Apr. 1929, 110.

I can see how parents of a wayward child would take solace in this beautiful teaching by Joseph Smith, but on my mission, we never came to a conclusion as to what it really meant.

Does it mean exaltation?

What exactly is the definition of “saved” in this quote?

We all know, by our faith and good works in the pre-existence, that we will all achieve salvation of our physical bodies through resurrection. That is a gift to all who walk this earth, no matter their personal level of righteousness now – so THAT definition of salvation can’t be the one this quote was referring to. It seems that the definition in this quote would have to refer to something more… something a child could NOT achieve without faithful parents.

Any ideas?

And what of those children excommunicated, who no longer have access to their parent’s sealings?

If you read revelations and also doctrine and covenants 76 there is a time the wicked will have to pay the debt of sin (during the millenial reign), however at the the end, that hell will be destroyed, and after that, only those who are still wicked or who have blasphemed the holy ghost will then be sent to outer darkness, and the rest will enter into heavin (which if put into an lds view would most likely mean being part of one of the three heavens, rather than any specific one)... all the above quote really says to me is that our family sealings wil still be in place and will be in effect in some way... But it does not mean that the a son or daughter who chose wickedness over rightiousness will be guaranteed a place the celestial kingdom.

As I am reading the quote it seems to be saying that such family bonds will be an instrument in helping such an individual repent.

[Misshalfway]

..., that hell will be destroyed,

That's new.

[Just_A_Guy]

Dunno about the "hell will be destroyed" bit, but scripture seems clear that the telestial will ultimately be redeemed from their state of hell; and what Elder Whitney says meshes nicely with D&C 76's description of the telestial.

If you get away from the idea that the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial kingdoms are places, all sorts of possibilities open up. Including the possibility of celestial and telestial beings interacting and perhaps even residing together through the eternities.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[Wisc]

Blackmarch isnt saying that "Hell" will be destroyed he said "that hell" as in That particular situation.. ie sitting through a boring lecture is hell. And at 3 oclock that hell (the lecture) will be over. The "hell" Blackmarch was speaking of was the "hell" or anguish of a millenial period separated from Christ.

We make better contributions to conversation when we really take time to know what the other person is actually saying and not just what we think we're hearing.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Wisc

[hordak]

He is not the only one who taught it

“Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang.Brigham Young

“If you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions and receive a resurrection, you will, by the power of the Priesthood, work and labor, as the Son of God has, until you get all your sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory. This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains. Therefore, mourn not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you have marked out to them, or give heed to your counsels. Inasmuch as we succeed in securing eternal glory, and stand as saviors, and as kings and priests to our God, we will save our posterity”Lorenzo Snow

“We cannot overemphasize the value of temple marriage, the binding ties of the sealing ordinance, and the standards of worthiness required of them. When parents keep the covenants they have made at the altar of the temple, their children will be forever bound to them” Boyd K. Packer

It doesn't just say they will be saved but they will be bound to their parents. So i don't think it is speaking of typical salvation. It wouldn't make sense for God to punish your mother, (not yours personally) for your actions and as a parent i say it would be hell to be separated from my kids.(even knowing they grow up an the relationship changes)

I think, like JAG was saying, if you think of glory as glory and not a different place it makes more sense

[Wisc]

I agree with what you're saying here Hordak. After all even satan still gets to call home. (see Job)

[Blackmarch]

That's new.

revelations 20:

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

It used to confuse me a lot until I found section 76 of the doctrine and covenants.

That the hell where wicked individuals suffer anguish and torment go (or as a state of being), and outer darkness are two seperate things.

To sum up what revelations seemed to be saying was that hell would be sent to burn in hell... not very enlightening.