What to do when you question a book of scripture?

[WillowTheWhisp]

wouldn't this make us all gods?

Yes - "As God is man may become." - note the 'may'

[Blackmarch]

I am a memeber for 15 plus years. I have served a mission. But recently I was asked a question about Kolob that has completely changed my understanding of the Pearl of Great Price. For the first time I have doubts about the book of Abraham. Has anyone else gone throught this?

1 realise that the books and those who wrote them aren't perfect.

2 realise that those who read and study them aren't perfect.

3. realise that GOd has yet to come down and announce the exact meaning of each verse to the world.

in light of this when I find something that's confusing i try to find out as much on it as I can, see if i'm spiritually prompted to go one way or another- if I don't get any promptings or any strong ones, then I figure it really does not matter that much, and shelve it for a later date.. perhaps such a time as when I meet God, then I'll ask him and ask what he thinks.

[heatwaveo8]

ok...internet server had a human disconnect it. He cut the wrong wire....ugh!

I was asked about the idea that we would inherit our own planet...that being called Kolob. I did reseach it on the LDS website, old (very,very old Ensigns), and found very little about Kolob. The only place I found any info was in Mormon Doctrine. I just want to understand the concept. I don't need a long disortation on it. Just the basics.

Then it led to other questions like...why didn't I learn about it in Institute, or in Sunday School. We didn't even "touch" on it in class.

It just left me scratching my head....

The answer to the question you were asked is no.

The Celestial is the name of the planet on which God resides, and Kolob is the governing star that is closest to it. Kolob governs other stars which have been placed below it in a sequence until you come to our solar system, of which our Sun is our governing star.

When the Millennium is completed, this earth, having fulfilled its mission, will inherit a celestial glory and become the Celestial Kingdom. Those who have lived in mortality on this earth, accepted covenants either in this life or the Spirit World, and stayed true to their covenants after making them, will together reside on this earth in its celestial state for eternity with celestial bodies.

You can read about this in the Doctrine and Covenants 88:25-29

Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions.

[WillowTheWhisp]

So, if we all live on a celestial Earth does that mean we will not have planets of our own to populate?

[Blackmarch]

So, if we all live on a celestial Earth does that mean we will not have planets of our own to populate?

God doesn't live on this earth far as i know....

[/ open can o' worms]

Personally I don't care and it does not matter to me.

[WillowTheWhisp]

God doesn't live on this earth far as i know....

[/ open can o' worms]

Personally I don't care and it does not matter to me.

No, I understand that God lives on his own planet, but if we are supposed to become like God and have our own spirit children who will inhabit our own planet that we are God and Goddess of how does that fit in with inheriting a celestial Earth? Will we all be living on the celestial Earth but governing other planets which we create ourselves?

[mnn727]

Why are we worrying about "what may be" when we don't even accomplish "what should be"

Got your Home/Visit Teaching done?

Hows your scripture study coming?

Saying your personal and family prayers daily?

FHE every week?

Attend all your meetings?

Attend the Temple regularily?

No body here is ready for their own planet/universe so while its interesting speculating, lets take care of the basics so one day God can teach us what we need to do to get to the next level.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I'm not worrying about it. Just trying to understand it. What is the point of scripture study if we don't attemp to understand the things we read?

[Blackmarch]

No, I understand that God lives on his own planet, but if we are supposed to become like God and have our own spirit children who will inhabit our own planet that we are God and Goddess of how does that fit in with inheriting a celestial Earth? Will we all be living on the celestial Earth but governing other planets which we create ourselves?

No idea, however I'd wager that would depend on what we want to do in the eternities, supposing we have done that which would be necessary to live on a celestialized earth.

[mnn727]

I'm not worrying about it. Just trying to understand it. What is the point of scripture study if we don't attemp to understand the things we read?

Anything we say on this is just speculation - there is no understanding it completly this side of the grave as a complete understanding has not yet been revealed.

Now go do your home teaching

[WillowTheWhisp]

So maybe we should just stop all discussions on here and let people find their answers on the anti-Mormon websites.One of the things that put me off the Catholic church was being fobbed off with "it's a divine mystery. You don't need to know that" answer to questions and one of the things I liked about this church was that we are supposedly encouraged to study the scriptures and learn. I was always told by LDS teachers that our knowledge gained here is the only thing we can take with us when we leave this Earth. Perhaps I have been misinformed all these years.

I was under the impression it was a discussion forum where we can discuss LDS topics and that the OP had a valid and interesting discussion topic. Excuse me for wanting to participate.

No I do not do Home Teaching. I'm a woman. I do Visiting Teaching. I do it every month even when currently injured and despite having no priesthood in my home I do not have Home Teachers.

[mnn727]

You must have missed the smilie.

Seriously though, not everything has been revealed, this is one of them.

If you really want to understand here and now, then go to God in prayer, cause any answers here on THIS subject is just speculation.

And I understand the RCC's Divine Mysteries -- at least they admit there are some things we just don't know yet, rather than trying to come up with an answer for everything and ending up with the philosopies of men mingled with scripture.

Edited February 9, 2010 by mnn727

[Blackmarch]

No, I understand that God lives on his own planet, but if we are supposed to become like God and have our own spirit children who will inhabit our own planet that we are God and Goddess of how does that fit in with inheriting a celestial Earth? Will we all be living on the celestial Earth but governing other planets which we create ourselves?

I have to agree with mnn- almost everything we know about this stems from very little-

We do know that we can become like God and be able to live and do as he does.

We do know that this world will be celestialized at some point.

There have been a couple early leaders that I think have stated that who've been sent to this world will have this world as their home/residence/throne or something like that... but they don't really elucidate on the details.. nor say if it was revelation or what not.

There is some interesting stuff on the subject but almost all of it is logical deduction.

the problem with a lot of antis is that they want to focus on things that there isn't a lot of information on, and then give it some weird twist.

[sd22]

I personally suggest that you question away. Dig and dig and dig.. it will either reaffirm your belief or destroy it. If it's true it should stand the test. If you do take my advice.. make sure you dig in the right places and to dig evenly (fairly). I don't think you'll be dissapointed.

I really wish this were true.

Unfortunately, in my case, it isn't. I'm a 31 year old single returned missionary who is finishing medical school residency.

I've spent years of my life "digging" about church history to resolve my concerns. And the more I dug, the more I realized, that the church's history is really just a veritable big mess.

But yet, even to this day, I am still trying to find SOME reason to believe in the LDS faith. This whole issue has basically ruined my life. I haven't dated hardly at all as the LDS girls seem way too naive, while the non-LDS girls are just too wordly.

If the OP really wants to keep his faith, I would avise him to NOT dig. Sometimes, it seems, keeping ones head in the sand is the happiest way of living. :-(

[bmy-]

I really wish this were true.

Unfortunately, in my case, it isn't. I'm a 31 year old single returned missionary who is finishing medical school residency.

I've spent years of my life "digging" about church history to resolve my concerns. And the more I dug, the more I realized, that the church's history is really just a veritable big mess.

But yet, even to this day, I am still trying to find SOME reason to believe in the LDS faith. This whole issue has basically ruined my life. I haven't dated hardly at all as the LDS girls seem way too naive, while the non-LDS girls are just too wordly.

If the OP really wants to keep his faith, I would avise him to NOT dig. Sometimes, it seems, keeping ones head in the sand is the happiest way of living. :-(

Oh, I completely understand my friend. I'm in the same exact boat minus the dating issues and the residency. The road may be bumpy and rough.. but you're better for it. Knowledge is power. The fact that you're trying to find some reason to believe really makes me sympathize with you.. because I'm there also. I don't regret it.. because I do not believe that a loving God would punish one for earnestly seeking the truth.

The road less travelled type deal.

[WillowTheWhisp]

You must have missed the smilie.

Seriously though, not everything has been revealed, this is one of them.

If you really want to understand here and now, then go to God in prayer, cause any answers here on THIS subject is just speculation.

And I understand the RCC's Divine Mysteries -- at least they admit there are some things we just don't know yet, rather than trying to come up with an answer for everything and ending up with the philosopies of men mingled with scripture.

I'm not looking for philosophies of men mingled with scripture. I'm looking for things church leaders may have said in the past on some subjects but which everyone, particularly newer menbers, may be unaware of. Surely it is better to know what a past prophet has said on a subject than to only hear what anti-Mormons have to say when they are trying to criticise our religion? If someone said to me "Your religion is contradictry because you claim you're going to rule over your own earth on one hand but here it says you're all going to live on the renewed earth and you can't have it both ways." I don't want to have nothing to say on the subject and leave them feeling vindicated. I want to know what my religion has to say on the subject if a past prophet has spoken on the matter as in "AS man is God once was,as God is man may become." If If didn't know that and told an anti that it was NOT church doctrine if they said we claim to be gods that gives them more cause to knock us. So instead of speculation I am actually looking for the exact OPPOSITE which is what I thought the opening poster of this thread was doing when faced with a similar situation.

[Finrock]

Good morning sd22. It is a pleasure to meet you! I hope you are doing well today. :)

I really wish this were true.

Unfortunately, in my case, it isn't. I'm a 31 year old single returned missionary who is finishing medical school residency.

I've spent years of my life "digging" about church history to resolve my concerns. And the more I dug, the more I realized, that the church's history is really just a veritable big mess.

But yet, even to this day, I am still trying to find SOME reason to believe in the LDS faith. This whole issue has basically ruined my life. I haven't dated hardly at all as the LDS girls seem way too naive, while the non-LDS girls are just too wordly.

If the OP really wants to keep his faith, I would avise him to NOT dig. Sometimes, it seems, keeping ones head in the sand is the happiest way of living. :-(

I only wanted to share some of my thoughts that I had when I read your post.

I've heard similar sentiments from many different people over the several years that I have been actively involved in the church. I've also served a mission. On my mission is when I was exposed to many arguments and alleged evidences against the church. When I returned home from my mission I explored all of the negative things I heard about the church. I've had discussions since then with many more people and have been introduced to new contentions against the church. I've studied church history. I've read accounts and histories from many people that shed a negative light on Joseph Smith. In short, I believe I have had access to the same set of data that you and all others in the world have had access to in regards to the church and I have not kept my head burried in the sand. I faithfully explored everything that I have ever come across that has been a potentially dilemma to the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have ignored none of it. And in each case, each instance, and everytime, without fail, I have come up from my exploration, my studies, and diggings with a stronger faith and a greater assurance that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is indeed the true church of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith is a prophet, and so forth. My faith has always increased.

My point? The data is the same, the only variable is the individual.

Kind Regards,

Finrock

[mnn727]

I've spent years of my life "digging" about church history to resolve my concerns. And the more I dug, the more I realized, that the church's history is really just a veritable big mess.

. :-(

Sorry, but I have to ask: Did you have a testimony of the Gospel? or a testamony of the history of the Church?

Anytime you have humans involved in anything, you'll have a mess.

I think the main problem many people have with the history of the Church is that they beleive Prophets and Apostles should be perfect and they are not perfect, they make mistakes, they have opinions, at times they extrapolate things they should not, and they are not God's ventriliquest dummies. This was true in Biblical times and its still true today.

something to think about

[WillowTheWhisp]

I think it's good to learn church history warts an' all then it doesn't shock us when somebody presents us with a 'devastating revelation' because we already know about it and know that human beings are not perfect or else they'd have been translated.

[sd22]

Good morning sd22. It is a pleasure to meet you! I hope you are doing well today. :)

I only wanted to share some of my thoughts that I had when I read your post.

I've heard similar sentiments from many different people over the several years that I have been actively involved in the church. I've also served a mission. On my mission is when I was exposed to many arguments and alleged evidences against the church. When I returned home from my mission I explored all of the negative things I heard about the church. I've had discussions since then with many more people and have been introduced to new contentions against the church. I've studied church history. I've read accounts and histories from many people that shed a negative light on Joseph Smith. In short, I believe I have had access to the same set of data that you and all others in the world have had access to in regards to the church and I have not kept my head burried in the sand. I faithfully explored everything that I have ever come across that has been a potentially dilemma to the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have ignored none of it. And in each case, each instance, and everytime, without fail, I have come up from my exploration, my studies, and diggings with a stronger faith and a greater assurance that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is indeed the true church of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith is a prophet, and so forth. My faith has always increased.

My point? The data is the same, the only variable is the individual.

Kind Regards,

Finrock

I would like to know how you choose to resolve Joseph Smith's false translation of the Book of Abraham. Thank you.

[Palerider]

I deleted last message....I would suggest before posting to read the rules of board.

[sd22]

Good morning sd22. It is a pleasure to meet you! I hope you are doing well today. :)

I only wanted to share some of my thoughts that I had when I read your post.

I've heard similar sentiments from many different people over the several years that I have been actively involved in the church. I've also served a mission. On my mission is when I was exposed to many arguments and alleged evidences against the church. When I returned home from my mission I explored all of the negative things I heard about the church. I've had discussions since then with many more people and have been introduced to new contentions against the church. I've studied church history. I've read accounts and histories from many people that shed a negative light on Joseph Smith. In short, I believe I have had access to the same set of data that you and all others in the world have had access to in regards to the church and I have not kept my head burried in the sand. I faithfully explored everything that I have ever come across that has been a potentially dilemma to the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have ignored none of it. And in each case, each instance, and everytime, without fail, I have come up from my exploration, my studies, and diggings with a stronger faith and a greater assurance that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is indeed the true church of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith is a prophet, and so forth. My faith has always increased.

My point? The data is the same, the only variable is the individual.

Kind Regards,

Finrock

Given the seriousness of accusations, I'm afraid I just have to say I can't believe this.

[Finrock]

Good evening sd22! I hope all is well with you. :)

Given the seriousness of accusations, I'm afraid I just have to say I can't believe this.

I'm uncertain as to what you mean. Please, will you tell me in a different way what specifically are you speaking to and what can you not believe?

Thank you for your time.

Kind Regards,

Finrock

[Drac]

Good morning sd22. It is a pleasure to meet you! I hope you are doing well today. :)

I only wanted to share some of my thoughts that I had when I read your post.

I've heard similar sentiments from many different people over the several years that I have been actively involved in the church. I've also served a mission. On my mission is when I was exposed to many arguments and alleged evidences against the church. When I returned home from my mission I explored all of the negative things I heard about the church. I've had discussions since then with many more people and have been introduced to new contentions against the church. I've studied church history. I've read accounts and histories from many people that shed a negative light on Joseph Smith. In short, I believe I have had access to the same set of data that you and all others in the world have had access to in regards to the church and I have not kept my head burried in the sand. I faithfully explored everything that I have ever come across that has been a potentially dilemma to the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have ignored none of it. And in each case, each instance, and everytime, without fail, I have come up from my exploration, my studies, and diggings with a stronger faith and a greater assurance that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is indeed the true church of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith is a prophet, and so forth. My faith has always increased.

My point? The data is the same, the only variable is the individual.

Kind Regards,

Finrock

That is exactly how I feel. Do I think all members should read into anti information? Definitely not. But anything that I have read has caused me to go deeper into study and prayer and has made me come out stronger for it. It has also helped me to help others when they have come across information that makes them doubt the gospel.

[cholo]

The way that I was taught by my parents about any gospel principal was the parable of "The PUZZLE"!

The Gospel is like a puzzle, which when we first encounter the Gospel, there are seemingly countless pieces. We first start with the easy pieces, the four principals of the gospel, the straight pieces around the 4 edges of the puzzle. All pieces we use must eventually be placed within the borders of those 4 principles. One by one, picking up a piece and looking at it, sometimes finding a place for it, sometimes not. Then we start placing pieces together that are out there floating unconnected to the border. We add more pieces, connecting up to other parts we have done (Learned) and after some time finishing the border. We may get all of the lake together, except for that one piece. We searched the floor and the entire table and we absolutely know for sure, there is not a piece that fit’s there. “They have not sent all the pieces to this puzzle”!

So what do you do, GIVE UP, NO we go on? Even though you are sure at the end, it will be missing that piece; we go on putting together the puzzle. Then you set-aside that part and you go on to work on a different part of the puzzle. Sure as not, when you’re working on other parts of the puzzle, you pick up that MISSING piece of the lake, that was not there! Sliding it into place, sometimes seemingly without much thought, Yet it was a piece that you knew was not there.

Or you may have linked up several pieces of the puzzle together and you think that ‘Island’ is going to connect over on one side. Yet it doesn’t quite fit there, without forcing it in . Then you see all those pieces go way over to the other side, clicking them smoothly into place.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only Church with a COMPLETE puzzle Box on this earth! We know the picture to go by, which is the plan of salvation, administrated by the Priesthood. We have the assurance that we’re looking at the right picture that goes with the right pieces, the Scriptures and Prophets’. All the correct pieces ARE THERE. It is our opportunity to work over our time here, to fit them all into place, as we ask for the help of the Savior Jesus Christ. Sometimes our understanding of that piece, which the Prophets’ have said, may be our lack of knowing of where to put that piece.

Be assured we have the Right Puzzle with all the Right Pieces!

We are not alone in putting it together, THE MAKER OF THE PUZZLE WILL HELP US. This is not a Prophets Church, it is the maker of the puzzle and he wants us to understand it. He uses Prophets’ to teach us at whatever level of understanding anyone is at. It is always truth THEY speak; the truth they speak is not always what we completely understand it to be. There are times to work on other pieces before we can understand the piece we are currently looking at {being taught}.

It will fit together as we work daily by following the principal’s of the gospel.

Other religions of the world have puzzles also, but their pieces, are not all from the same puzzle. They have several different puzzles pieces mixed onto their table. Some with little truth, some with some other pieces of truth, all with many missing and until they start a new, theirs will never fit all together.

I know My understanding about Kolob, has been through the promptings of the Spirit over time, only after I first understood other teachings of scripture (which is ANY time a Prophet speaks for the LORD). They are such that which is understood of the spirit. As time goes on, I will understand more of Kolob and ALL else. If I continue working to put my copy of GOD’s puzzle together, to better to see his whole plan, to increase my understanding of Him and His ways.

There are answers posted here that will help you, one day! There are others that may not be so helpful, Prayer and Patience helps us know we have the right pieces.

When I find information, I try to trust the same way James instructed Joseph Smith Jr. to do. ASK GOD, He knows, in time you will know where all the pieces of God’s puzzle go.

I get one of three types of answers:

1. A Stupor of Thought; No that is not right, start over or work on something else.

2. A dial tone; Keep working you are on the right track, keep at this to get it right.

3. A Yes; This is truth (even so, some time later, I will have MORE understanding of the truth I was told.)

When putting together this puzzle, isn’t it a joy when we see more and more of the picture come together

Edited February 13, 2010 by cholo