What is a testimony? How do you know it's true?

[CloudGate]

I've been kind of stuggling in trying to find out if the church is true. I've read the BoM, prayed, and I think I might have felt the Holy Ghost. I know the basic definition of a testimony, a personal conviction that the church is true given by the Holy Ghost, faith, study, and prayer, but i feel kind of stuck. Maybe the good members of this forum can help me out.

What is a testimony to you? Most importantly, how do you know it's true? Many people beleive with all their heart, might, mind, and soul in untrue causes, groups, and faiths. Even though many of these may have a only a portion of the truth, it seems to me people's testimonies can be just as strong about other things outside the church as in the church itself. How do you know you haven't just convinced yourself the church is true and given yourself a strong conviction through strong desire for it to be so, repetition, group belonging, and reinforcement?

Maybe I have the completely wrong idea about this. I think when most people say they know the church is true, they mean they "feel" the church is true. I've throughout my life been very keen on facts, and I know you can't "feel" the church is true through facts alone. Maybe I'm just one of those people a testimony won't come easily for. Do you have any insights, advice, or a different perspective? I'd be very glad to hear it. Thank you.

Edited March 8, 2010 by CloudGate

[Faded]

The purpose that God has for his children in this life is to teach them to exercise faith. Faith in it's perfect form is what makes God what he is and he's trying to help us learn to use faith.

Exercise is a good word for it. When you begin, it's like going and lifting weights for the first time and straining muscles far beyond what they are used to. So when you study, pray and feel the stirrings of the Holy Spirit then you are just beginning to work those "muscles" that aren't used to being worked.

The things that reinforce my conviction in the Church of Jesus Christ and quiets that notion that I might have just "talked myself into it all"? There are too many to count. I'll share just a few.

I served as a missionary in the Church. Years later, I found myself working as a door-to-door salesman. Like any good and diligent employee, I convinced myself that the product was something that people wanted and needed. One day, some lady I was speaking to had more or less told me she was not interested in buying, but for some reason, religion came up. I was able to share with her information about the Church of Jesus Christ. While doing so, I was astounded at the strength of the Spirit that came into my heart. The difference between selling somebody something that I had convinced/deluded myself into believing they needs vs sharing the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ with them: The surge of powerful spiritual feelings of rightness as I shared it all with her was like a furnace inside me lighting up.

Every time I set foot inside the temple, the same thing happens. A powerful rush of spiritual power and vitality comes in. The cares of the world seem to be unable to get past the front door. This surprises me every single time.

Once I was attending Conference. I was chatting with my father and a stranger sitting next to me. I looked down and saw the Prophet (President Hinckley at that time), but didn't give it much thought. Unbidden, a feeling that I can only describe as an electrical surge/pulse (but good-feeling, not painful) -- I felt it start at the back of the audience and surge through me and forward. I looked at the stranger next to me and asked, "Did you feel that?" With a bit of wonder in her voice, she said that she did. I expect that most in attendance would have said the same thing. And it was the Spirit telling me that this was God's living Prophet.

Three days ago I laid my hands on my wife's head to give her a blessing. It is impossible to describe the feeling of having thoughts, impressions and promises come to your mind along with an intensely wonderful feeling of rightness, and then to speak those words and pronounce those blessings. It happened more powerfully than I can ever remember this last time, and I knew without a doubt that it wasn't just something coming from me.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Faded

[Faded]

I could add that it is at least comforting that the Church of Jesus Christ makes the most logical sense of any religion that I'm aware of. This is a nice bonus, but you can't prove that this Church is true by it.

[Traveler]

I've been kind of stuggling in trying to find out if the church is true. I've read the BoM, prayed, and I think I might have felt the Holy Ghost. I know the basic definition of a testimony, a personal conviction that the church is true given by the Holy Ghost, faith, study, and prayer, but i feel kind of stuck. Maybe the good members of this forum can help me out.

What is a testimony to you? Most importantly, how do you know it's true? Many people beleive with all their heart, might, mind, and soul in untrue causes, groups, and faiths. Even though many of these may have a only a portion of the truth, it seems to me people's testimonies can be just as strong about other things outside the church as in the church itself. How do you know you haven't just convinced yourself the church is true and given yourself a strong conviction through strong desire for it to be so, repetition, group belonging, and reinforcement?

Maybe I have the completely wrong idea about this. I think when most people say they know the church is true, they mean they "feel" the church is true. I've throughout my life been very keen on facts, and I know you can't "feel" the church is true through facts alone. Maybe I'm just one of those people a testimony won't come easily for. Do you have any insights, advice, or a different perspective? I'd be very glad to hear it. Thank you.

As an engineer and scientist I have been troubled with the use of and concept of testimony. I have felt and believed that faith and belief is, in reality, just as powerful and perhaps more meaningful than knowledge of things. I have often thought that a testimony can be just as effective based on faith as it is on knowledge. I could go into many details on this and offer more opinions that are based on science as much as religion. But there is another point and a pithily that I have had on this matter that has given me a whole other view.

Sometime ago I pondered what it is that I really know. From science we learn that many things thought to be solid, are in reality, mostly empty space. We think we know things from our 5 senses but in truth we know that even senses can be deceiving or give slightly skewed perceptions of reality. But there are some things that I do know that are not based in any of my 5 senses. For example, I know that I love my wife and my children and my grand children. I have been unable to measure or quantify my love and affections and there is no way I can prove my love. I can demonstrate portions of my love through my actions but it is impossible to transfer what it is inside of me and a part of me that determines this love. Therefore any effort to transfer or prove this knowledge is incomplete and inaccurate.

So it is that I have come to understand that knowledge of certain truths deep inside one’s gut is more reliable than even the cognitive thoughts transient in our brains. The ancients understood this and it was called the heart and soul of man. In modern times we think of the heart as associated with our organ that pumps blood and with our emotions that quite frankly can be all over the place and quite unreliable. I believe this is a great misunderstanding among many LDS. They confuse the spiritual gut wrenching within us with emotions we may also experience. We sometimes also experience this “sureness” only to later experience frustration because the experience is gone and cannot be replicated on our whim. Only by much soul searching, recommitting, repentance and pondering can we begin to understand what our gut is telling us about divine things.

We can know things and then cover them over with other sensations and thoughts even to the point that we lose track of them – and then something awakens and we “know” them again. This is the beginning of testimony and knowledge beyond the limited but powerful empirical view that can overpower us when we let it.

The Traveler

[CloudGate]

Thank you all for your responses. I think they've helped especially the analogy about love.

I hope any other members of this forum didn't overlook this thread when the LDS.net servers went down. If you have any thoughts please add them. I would appreciate it very much.

[Guest mirancs8]

For me it's something much more powerful then anything I have ever experienced in my life. Knowing that this church is the one TRUE church came after I not only read the BoM but also as I applied what I had learned to the unanswered questions left in my mind after reading the Bible.

For many years I struggled to understand how it was that God would leave his children here on earth with no guidance and not instruction. I could not believe that HE would just say, well after the NT you all are on your own. NO that just didn't make sense. Even before I ever read the BoM I knew that there had to be a living Prophet. Finally when I did read the BoM the answer came... YES there is and he is with us today. I felt such a sense of peace knowing that we have a Prophet of God that is living here on earth.

"And the Lord will surely prepare a way for his people, unto the fulfilling of the words of Moses, which he spake, saying: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that all those who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people." 1 Nephi 22:20

This was only one among a number of things that were answered for me when I read the BoM. I am so thankful that the BoM is in my hands each and every day. That I am able to read this book which brought me to the truth and revealed the answers I had been searching for in my life. I do no waver in my Testimony that this church is true as I know deep in my heart that it is. Even if you read the BoM be sure to read again and again because with each reading you will gain more then from the previous time.

[Guest mirancs8]

For me it's something much more powerful then anything I have ever experienced in my life. Knowing that this church is the one TRUE church came after I not only read the BoM but also as I applied what I had learned to the unanswered questions left in my mind after reading the Bible.

For many years I struggled to understand how it was that God would leave his children here on earth with no guidance and not instruction. I could not believe that HE would just say, well after the NT you all are on your own. NO that just didn't make sense. Even before I ever read the BoM I knew that there had to be a living Prophet. Finally when I did read the BoM the answer came... YES there is and he is with us today. I felt such a sense of peace knowing that we have a Prophet of God that is living here on earth.

Had to change the quote sorry this is one of my favorite quotes.

Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this, and there is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer; yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatsoever your heart desireth—and if a man shall come among you and say this, ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet. Helaman 13:26-27

This was only one among a number of things that were answered for me when I read the BoM. I am so thankful that the BoM is in my hands each and every day. That I am able to read this book which brought me to the truth and revealed the answers I had been searching for in my life. I do no waver in my Testimony that this church is true as I know deep in my heart that it is. Even if you read the BoM be sure to read again and again because with each reading you will gain more then from the previous time.

[ztodd]

I like to define testimony as an expression of our faith. As for faith- there is way too much that can be said about faith than I have time to type down here. You'll spend your whole life learning about it. I'll just say that it is what we hope for; it is what we base our actions on.

There's quite a wide range of strengths of testimony. The power of the Holy Ghost is the key to our personal conviction- but it may take some time, patience, humility, practice... we may need to take some action- a "leap of faith"- to show Heavenly Father that we are ready and willing to follow Him once we learn of His will for us.

If your heart is in the right place- if you stand ready to serve the Lord- then pray and tell Him that. Tell Him that you are ready to make the commitment to follow His example into the waters of baptism, and to serve Him all your life, through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... if that is what He would have you do.

If you do that... if you read, study, pray- all in true sincerity, with real intent to serve Him all your days... He will answer you. You will feel His Spirit, and you will know.

[Bluejay]

Hi, CloudGate.

...how do you know it's true?

You don't.

[InquisitiveSoul]

I've been studying the Mormon Church for quite some time and I'm about to join!

There are words used by members where the meanings begin to blend, faith, believe, feel, and know. As you study and learn more you begin to have stronger feelings about things. As I was sitting in church last Sunday singing hymns, (we were singing How Great Thou Art) there was a strong spirit and by showing faith and starting to believe, when you mix in the feelings of the spirit it becomes a know.

I don't know if this makes sense, but it's how it's come together for me. Know has various degrees when it comes to testimony. You know it's true, but it may not be to the same degree that you know your car is parked outside. If you are doing the right things including the intangibles, your know becomes stronger. It takes work as you probably already have found. I hope this helps.

[ZSEdwardson]

Each member has his or own way of figuring out what there testimony is, and it builds up over time. It is something that you pick up over a period of time, from prayer, thinking about it, and reading.

This is mine right now.

I know that the book of Mormon is Holy Scripture, to be read in good times and in bad. That it was translated by Joseph Smith, that Smith, followed by Brigham Young, started a long line of latter day prophets, which currently is president Monson, That this is the true restored church of Jesus Christ on the Earth, and that our heavily father has a plan for salvation, and if we keep to the path, the blessing is almost indescribable, Finally, that while I have much to learn, and the path presented will sometimes be rough, if I trip, I will have brothers and sisters to catch me, and in time, I will learn how to catch if need be.

In Jesus name I pray, Amen.

In time it may be more detailed as I learn more and have more of a testomony on some items.

[JudoMinja]

That word "know" can be confusing, especially when you hear so many people stand at the pulpit and say they KNOW the church is true on Fast and Testimony Sunday. Sometimes, people say this without really putting any thought behind whether they really know this. Children often ride on the testimonies of their elders before later forming a testimony of their own.

What I have found is that a true, honest, strong, full testimony is formed through a mixture of factual and spiritual knowledge. As we study the gospel through prayer, scripture, actions, etc, we build a foundation of facts. We must sort out what is true and what is not (especially when looking at sources outside the church). We must confirm within ourselves the knowledge of that truth.

How do you know when someone is lying? It can be just as hard to define this as it is to define "knowing" the truth. Especially when you do not have enough facts to back up this knowledge. The more time you spend studying the gospel, the more facts you will build, and the easier it will be to support your testimony. Facts alone do not make the testimony, however. Without that confirming feeling inside, it does not matter how much factual evidence/information you've gathered. You won't "know".

A testimony does not necessarily mean you know or understand everything about the gospel. This is why missionaries start with the Book of Mormon and the First Vision. As long as you can feel that confirmation and "know" that the Book of Mormon is true, the rest just follows. You then spend the rest of your life studying to understand all the details and continously build your testimony.

[Moksha]

Traveler, think of a testimony as a statement of beliefs that are true for you. Sometimes testimonies do not even have to be that. In my ward today we heard thanks and appreciation for families, a couple telling one another of their love, a guy reporting about his calling at the Temple Ground, etc.... What they shared was significant for them and hopefully it meant something to the listeners as well.

[Moksha]

I think when most people say they know the church is true, they mean they "feel" the church is true.

I think belief can be as strong as empirical knowledge. Sometimes it is used as a mantra. Sometimes it is also a pledge of fealty that let's members know you are one of them and are thus worthy of association. However it is used, its usage is of significance.

[Finrock]

Good morning Moksha. How are you today? I hope well. :)

Traveler, think of a testimony as a statement of beliefs that are true for you. Sometimes testimonies do not even have to be that. In my ward today we heard thanks and appreciation for families, a couple telling one another of their love, a guy reporting about his calling at the Temple Ground, etc.... What they shared was significant for them and hopefully it meant something to the listeners as well.

Coincidentally, the last couple of nights for scripture study my family and I have been discussing what a testimony is and how we can know if certain things about the gosple are true. We found some scriptures to be helpful in addition to some explanations from other church resources like the Preach My Gospel guide and Guide to the Scriptures. Presented below are some of the things we found.

I really love the Preach My Gospel book. It provides a collection of gospel truths in one place and presents them in a simple yet comprehensive way. On the subject of testimony, it reads on pg. 198 that, "[a] testimony is a spiritual witness and assurance given by the Holy Ghost. To bear testimony is to give a simple, direct declaration of belief—a feeling, an assurance, a conviction of gospel truth." An effective testimony is one that will help others to build their faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

From the Guide to the Scriptures we learn that to testify means to, "...bear witness by the power of the Holy Ghost; to make a solemn declaration of truth based on personal knowledge or belief."

Of course the best source to consult for understanding on what a testimony is are the scriptures. After teaching about the Plan of Salvation and the atonement of Jesus Christ Alma declares:

45 And this is not all. Do ye not suppose that I know of these things myself? Behold, I testify unto you that I do know that these things whereof I have spoken are true. And how do ye suppose that I know of their surety?

46 Behold, I say unto you they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me.

47 And moreover, I say unto you that it has thus been revealed unto me, that the words which have been spoken by our fathers are true, even so according to the spirit of prophecy which is in me, which is also by the manifestation of the Spirit of God.

48 I say unto you, that I know of myself that whatsoever I shall say unto you, concerning that which is to come, is true; and I say unto you, that I know that Jesus Christ shall come, yea, the Son, the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace, and mercy, and truth. And behold, it is he that cometh to take away the sins of the world, yea, the sins of every man who steadfastly believeth on his name.

In another scripture we read a testimony given by Amulek:

8 And now, behold, I will testify unto you of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say unto you, that I do know that Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world; for the Lord God hath spoken it.

Here are some other scriptures to consider: Jacob 7:7-12, D&C 76:22-24, John 3:3-11, Acts 2:14-38, Acts 10:34-44.

One thing that is common in all of these scriptural examples of testimony and bearing testimony is that they are all centered on testifying of Jesus Christ and His gospel. In fact, I have yet to come across an example of testimony in scripture that was not so.

So, what did we learn as a family from all of this? We learned that a testimony is a spiritual witness and a knowledge that is given to us by the Holy Ghost about Jesus Christ and His gospel. We learned that unless our testimony has been received from the Holy Spirit, it cannot be a testimony. We also learned that a true testimony is a witness of the divinity of Jesus, His atonement, and His gospel. Most importantly, I think, is that we learned that we can actually know if something is true by the power of the Holy Ghost. It is by this power that all the prophets and apostles have received their witness.

Regards,

Finrock

Edited March 29, 2010 by Finrock
Fixed grammar.

[joheri]

A testimony is in its nature based on experience. You testify of something you have experienced. Somtimes it is something seen, heard, smelled, or (as is most often the case) you have felt something in your heart.

Remember that feeling is not necesserily en evidence in it self. We cannot really know if the Church is true because if we knew we don't have a testimony but rather sure knowledge. However, the feeling and sometimes the burning in our heart, to us is equal to sure knowledge. I think we use the words "I know" a little too easy. We must not forget that it is a faith based religion, and that is good because faith induces more power than knowledge. Just look at Laman and Lemuel and even Peter the Rock.

[Guest tomk]

I've been kind of stuggling in trying to find out if the church is true. I've read the BoM, prayed, and I think I might have felt the Holy Ghost. I know the basic definition of a testimony, a personal conviction that the church is true given by the Holy Ghost, faith, study, and prayer, but i feel kind of stuck. Maybe the good members of this forum can help me out.

What is a testimony to you? Most importantly, how do you know it's true? Many people beleive with all their heart, might, mind, and soul in untrue causes, groups, and faiths. Even though many of these may have a only a portion of the truth, it seems to me people's testimonies can be just as strong about other things outside the church as in the church itself. How do you know you haven't just convinced yourself the church is true and given yourself a strong conviction through strong desire for it to be so, repetition, group belonging, and reinforcement?

Maybe I have the completely wrong idea about this. I think when most people say they know the church is true, they mean they "feel" the church is true. I've throughout my life been very keen on facts, and I know you can't "feel" the church is true through facts alone. Maybe I'm just one of those people a testimony won't come easily for. Do you have any insights, advice, or a different perspective? I'd be very glad to hear it. Thank you.

For me, it has been a question of "Do I know Him?" and "What are my reasons and motives for serving Him?"

Do I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? When Judgement Day comes, will I be able to say I know Him, and will He know me?

Nothing else we can say or do matters more than this. It is not something you can get from another person. It is a matter between you and God. I'd even say it is a matter that is OUTSIDE of any organized religion, even my own religion. We claim to be the ONLY true church. But even if there was just ONE church on the earth, unmistakably His true church, your need for a relationship with Jesus Christ would still be necessary and would still be paramount. You must follow His teachings and obey His Voice when it speaks to you.

So, that is how I define if I have a "testimony" or not. I base it upon the nuturing (or neglect) that I am accomplishing each day in regard to my relationship with Christ.

I can say...I know Him. I know He is real. I write letters to Him and He answers me. I record the feelings and impressions I receive. What I "feel" from Him is much too pure for words, but I do the best I can to record it and obey it.

I invite you to do the same. Write a letter to Him. Write a letter to Jesus. I call this "Counseling with Him in Writing". It is a very personal, sacred thing that I do not share with anyone else. While writing the letter, ask Him questions and record the response you feel from Him.

I will paste an entry here from my journal. As an example of what I mean. The words I feel to record from HIM are in ALL CAPS to distinguish His words from my own:

=========================

Tuesday, 16th

Good morning, Jesus.

GOOD MORNING, TOM.

I desire to connect with Thee.

:) IT IS WELL. WHAT IS IN YOUR HEART TODAY?

I want to become more like you. I want to learn about you. I want to have peace.

LET'S STUDY D&C 4. IS THAT OKAY?

Sure. :)

1 Now behold, a marvelous work is about to come forth among the children of men.

WHAT MAKES THIS WORK MARVELOUS, TOM?

Your brand of love is marvelous, Lord. The knowledge I have inside of me now that ANYONE can have what you and I have together! The Peace. The Communion. The Protection. The Guidance. The Inspiration!

It is a stone rolling forth, formed "without hands" - through the power of the unseen world...the Light of Christ!

2 Therefore, [TOM, WHEN YOU] embark in [MY] service, see that [YOU] serve [ME] with all your heart, might, mind and strength, that [YOU] may stand blameless before [ME] at the last day.

This makes me swallow hard. I feel so inadequate.

3 Therefore, if [YOU] have desires to serve [ME] [YOU] are called to the work;

4 For behold the field is white already to harvest; and lo, [iF YOU] thrust in [YOUR] sickle with [YOUR] might, [YOU] lay up in store that [YOU] perish not, but bringeth salvation to [YOUR] soul;

5 And faith, hope, charity and love, with an eye single to the glory of God, [iS HOW I] qualify [YOU] for the work.

6 [TOM] remember faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, brotherly kindness, godliness, charity, humility, diligence [ALL FLOW FROM ME AS GIFTS].

7 Ask, and [YOU] shall receive [WHAT YOU NEED TO ACCOMPLISH MY WORK]; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. Amen.

[Whynot]

I think there are two witnesses we can have that are foundational in our testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The first is receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit when we are baptized, and the second is the very testimony of God that when we do whatever Jesus taught, that what Jesus taught is true and of God.

a little quote from my web site:

John 7:16,17; "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority."

In this teaching Jesus equates the personal testimony of His truth from God (the gospel of the kingdom) is to be found in our willingness to do what He said. The mercy of God is evident in that it is found in our will to obey, not in our actual ability to do it all. We need to be honest with both ourselves and God, so that, as I John 1:9 says, if we confess our sin, God is faithful to forgive. By doing what Jesus said we find the personal testimony of the gospel of the kingdom of God, and the process of maturing in Christ, that we might "have the mind of Christ" in us.

John 14:23,24; "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me."

If we love Jesus we keep His word. How can we grow in our love for Christ except by doing this? And how can we grow to the stature of the fullness He desires except by willingly seeking out His words to do them? Pure doctrine is simply to teach and observe all of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 4:4; 'It is written, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

John 6:63,64; "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe."

One Disciple to Another