Guest mormonmusic Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Hopefully this subject hasn't been beat to death recently, but it's on my mind. I have a question about the statement that the Book of Mormon contains the "fulness of the gospel". I've always been a bit perplexed on that one, because the Book of Mormon does a VERY good job of explaining the first principles and ordinances of the gospel, but doesn't mention any of the other ordinances, like endowments, celestial marriage, etcetera. Or if it does, it's probably in such an implied fashion as to be a stretch (in my view). So, can anyone help me understand how this statement is true? I'm a Gospel Essentials teacher and I skipped the lesson on the Scriptures because I didn't want someone to ask me that question (I think the lesson says the BoM contains the fulness of the gospel). So, how does the BoM contain the fulness of the gospel when it says so little about the temple ordinances? [by the way, many of you gave me really good advice about being a Gospel Essentials teacher when I started a few months ago. It's been going VERY, very well. My class keeps getting fuller and fuller every Sunday. The Spirit has been really powerful to the point of people in tears so often -- I can't believe how blessed I've been as a teacher, and how inspired the class has been in their participation. And I've ended up confirming one person and conferring the priesthood on another, and speaking at the baptism of yet another person in the class -- given the relationships formed in the teacher/class participant relationship that's been developed). I really enjoy gospel teaching, especially when there are non-members in front of me very Sunday...it's fabulous] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Mormonmusic, way to go teaching that class. I really enjoyed it. I asked a lot of questions when I was in that class. I really appreciated having an instructor that was not only well versed, but was able to think outside the box as well. I was also glad he was patient and kept his inclination toward defensiveness to a minimum. I imagine other class members with a long term background in Mormon teachings also learned something by exploring the reasons behind what they would otherwise take for granted about the very basics. One subject I was very anxious to know about was Mormon cosmology. The teacher put that one on hold and came back the next Sunday in full instructional mode. Made me happy to receive such satisfactory answers. The other students learned stuff they never knew that day as well. Such a question as you pose should have a chance for discussion. If the teacher censors himself from asking about the rudiments, wouldn't the class suffer as a result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I been asking the same question ina way... My answer has been that the BoM prepares the way to understand thd fulness of the gospel. If we would have the Jewis way of explain the BoM it would tell us MUCH more, as shown in the Jewish perspective of BoM on this site. After all it IS a Jewish or Israelian record that should be interprated accordingly. I dont think we can fully understand its writtings without the Jewish perspective and most of all the Holy Spirit. By now the Jewish pesrpective in explainint then BoM or even Bible has been neclected adn I believe that is why there is soooo many things yet not revieled to us. If we think we can find teh fullness without knowledge on Jewish traditional recordkeeping and traditions I think we sre wrong. Ofcourse the Holy Spirit WILL help us and may even be enough to get the fulness, but I still think there lies a LOT of secrets in the Bom that we have no idea about., BUT it does NOT mean taht all Jewish commentsw would be right! Maybe the fullness lies in receaving of the Holy Spirit? And because of the BoM we are able to better acnolige the SH in our life. The BoM is absolutely the way to fulness, the key, but do we understand ALL of it? I think it would be arrogant to claim that we do. We have barely opened its treasurs. Those who seek shal find..... One of the problems is that we may find ... but the others cant see it and stample our ways wrong ... That is why we have a Prophet who can tell things to EVERYBODY in the RIGHT time, when most are able to comprihend it, and take it as a truth. That is why we should never impose our ideas to anyone... and that is why we, with ideas, are so darn alone sometimes, with no one to talk to... Maya the superspeculator has spoken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mysticmorini Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Hopefully this subject hasn't been beat to death recently, but it's on my mind.I have a question about the statement that the Book of Mormon contains the "fulness of the gospel". I've always been a bit perplexed on that one, because the Book of Mormon does a VERY good job of explaining the first principles and ordinances of the gospel, but doesn't mention any of the other ordinances, like endowments, celestial marriage, etcetera. Or if it does, it's probably in such an implied fashion as to be a stretch (in my view).So, can anyone help me understand how this statement is true? I'm a Gospel Essentials teacher and I skipped the lesson on the Scriptures because I didn't want someone to ask me that question (I think the lesson says the BoM contains the fulness of the gospel).So, how does the BoM contain the fulness of the gospel when it says so little about the temple ordinances?Oh but it does, I posted a thread on here a while back that talks about temple imagery in the book of mormon, for that matter temple imagery is in the old testament and new testament. its not so much of a stretch you just have to have the eyes to see and the ears to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubaloth Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 If I still had Gospelink installed I could probably copy and paste some from other books. The answer actually is kind of simple, which maybe isn't what we are looking for. I have a question about the statement that the Book of Mormon contains the "fulness of the gospel". The reason the book of mormon gets this is because the people in the book of mormon had the fulness of the gospel. Now there is a difference of having it, and teaching it. Just because not everything about the gospel was taught in the book of mormon doesn't mean they didn't have it. Lehi through his linage didn't have the Aaronic priesthood but had the higher Melchizedek priesthood. This is different then those in the old Testament. So in a way when we compare the Old Testament to the Book of Mormon, those in the book of Mormon had the fulness of Gospel. The same holds true after Christ came and visited them. He taught them all they needed to know and where a people with the fulness of the gospel. Now just because temple endowment process isn't explained doesn't really prove anything. It was a people living the gospel to its fulness. Thats the reason the Book of Mormon was given for our day! It is in our day when we also have the fulness! We can see what happens when we live the fulness of the gospel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I've never thought of the Book of Mormon as containing the fullness of the gospel as described in the OP. My perception when hearing this term is that the fullness of the gospel has been restored again upon the earth. That we have been given the keys to perform all the ordinances to gain salvation. That the power and authority of the Priesthood has been restored . The Book of Mormon to me has a purpose and that is to to convince all that Jesus is the Christ and manifesting Himself to all nations. It's also a witness to the many truths held in the Bible. That it also restores some of the truths that were lost in the Bible through errors in translation. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 The Book of Mormon is also the keystone of the doctrine of the Resurrection. As mentioned before, the Lord Himself has stated that the Book of Mormon contains the “fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ” (D&C 20:9). That does not mean it contains every teaching, every doctrine ever revealed. Rather, it means that in the Book of Mormon we will find the fulness of those doctrines required for our salvation. And they are taught plainly and simply so that even children can learn the ways of salvation and exaltation. The Book of Mormon offers so much that broadens our understandings of the doctrines of salvation. Without it, much of what is taught in other scriptures would not be nearly so plain and precious.From here: LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Book of Mormon Keystone of Our Religion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Thank you Dravin. My wording in my post didn't exactly state what I was really trying to say...But I think one paragraph in that talk pretty much states what I was trying to say or at least where my thoughts were.The Book of Mormon is also the keystone of the doctrine of the Resurrection. As mentioned before, the Lord Himself has stated that the Book of Mormon contains the “fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ” (D&C 20:9). That does not mean it contains every teaching, every doctrine ever revealed. Rather, it means that in the Book of Mormon we will find the fulness of those doctrines required for our salvation. And they are taught plainly and simply so that even children can learn the ways of salvation and exaltation. The Book of Mormon offers so much that broadens our understandings of the doctrines of salvation. Without it, much of what is taught in other scriptures would not be nearly so plain and precious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 (edited) /me nods. Another way to look at it (which just may be rewording) is fullness can imply breadth (which is what I think Mormonmusic is talking about) but it can also imply depth (which is what I think President Benson in the quotes is talking about). The Book of Mormon teaches the Good News, that Christ came and died for our sins and that Christ's atonement can apply to us and how in a very full way. Edited March 20, 2010 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marts1 Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I was thinking the same. I don't know of any other scripture that explains so well, the most important event that took place on this planet, during those last few days that Christ endured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I do find the Book of Mormon a much easier read. Well except for 2nd Nephi which is basically quoting Isaiah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I'm surprised nobody brought up the first 24 verses of D&C 76. They answer the question in the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marts1 Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I guess you would have to be touched by the Spirit to a great degree such as they were because I don't see the answer there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mormonmusic Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 (edited) Thanks so far guys for the suggestions. They help, but I feel they don't explain the concept as plainly -- except perhaps the post above that says the references to temple ordinances is there, but hidden...but I can't see where. So, since posting this question, one possible answer that has struck me -- is that for salvation in the celestial kingdom, all you need is the first principles and ordinances of the gospel -- correct? Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Gift of the Holy Ghost and then enduring to the end? Granted, to enter into the highest level of the celestial kingdom, you need to enter into the everlasting covenant of marriage, but to avoid spiritual death, to have life with God, Jesus and Holy Ghost, all you need is faith, repentence, baptism, the gift of the holy ghost and enduring to the end -- to land in the lowest level of the celestial kingdom without eternal progression. Correct? If so, then the Book of Mormon is chock full of the fulness of the gospel, as it explains those first principles and ordinances very clearly, as well as the importance of continued, basic righteous living. Comments on this interpretation? Edited March 21, 2010 by mormonmusic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 The original Book of Mormon, including the sealed 2/3 portion does contain the explicit fullness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mormonmusic Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 The original Book of Mormon, including the sealed 2/3 portion does contain the explicit fullness.CAn you point out where it points to the need for the temple ordinances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qedd Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 This thread brings some questions to mind. Are ordinances themselves part of the gospel? The gospel is the "good news" -- are ordinances themselves the good news? What is the good news? I think the gospel is the message. A message of hope and optimism. A message that shows that one can overcome the natural self and the past through Christ and become something more by following His example. I think ordinances are vehicles that support the gospel, but are not the gospel itself. That ordinances are vehicles for instruction and meditation. Vehicles for growth. The gospel never changes, yet ordinances may change over time as needs necessitate (wine vs. water, wording in temple ordinances, etc.). So, to me, the Book of Mormon does contain the fullness of the gospel in that it contains a fullness of the good news, or the message of hope. It just so happens that it contains references to a few ordinances as well. This isn't to belittle ordinances to any degree -- just to say that I don't see them as being one and the same, rather, one is in support of the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marts1 Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 The original Book of Mormon, including the sealed 2/3 portion does contain the explicit fullness.Never heard it put like this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 The plain and simple answer is that it teaches Christ. That man needs a redeemer, and that Redeemer is Jesus Christ, is the fulness of the Gospel, from one perspective. All other teachings and beliefs hinge on that one truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 (edited) CAn you point out where it points to the need for the temple ordinances?No because it is sealed. But we have been told what is in the sealed 2/3 portion (2 NE 27:7-11). We know that the author of the sealed 2/3 portion was the brother of Jared - Mahonri Moriancumer (Ether 3, Ether 4:4, Ether 12:24).So, can anyone help me understand how this statement is true? I'm a Gospel Essentials teacher and I skipped the lesson on the Scriptures because I didn't want someone to ask me that question (I think the lesson says the BoM contains the fulness of the gospel).The above answer is a good solution to your above dilemma. It allows you to explain clearly that the Book of Mormon does contain the fullness of the Gospel. We just haven't been worthy enough to have the record revealed unto us. Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” Book of Mormon Introduction. Edited March 21, 2010 by mikbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marts1 Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Very interesting Mikbone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy_do46 Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 (edited) I too believe the fullness of the gospel is there. I believe that the BOM reveals more and more as you study the words. Every time I read it I see something I did not see before. I also believe this is how it answers our needs. How often do we receive instruction from our prophets and suddenly words that we have read in the BOM are lifted up to something we did not see? How many times do we say "we just do not get it" and then when we study and pray and we get the answer? Why does Heavenly Father require that we be "worthy" to enter the Temple to receive and do ordinances that only be done there? Being "worthy" requires a certain amount of knowledge of the Gospel. I agree that as I progress I will learn more... EX: This site and the knowledge presented in these forums. Are we all at the same level of understanding? No, I learn something every time I come in here. :0) and some times I understand what some of you are saying. Some times I have no idea what you are saying. Then some where down the line of a thread I suddenly see what you are saying. :) Other times I figure I am just not ready and I re-visit the thread from time to time and do my own study to see if I understand. To be honest some things I just take on Faith. Just because I do not understand yet does not mean they are not true. I know the answer will be shown to me when I am ready. Edited March 21, 2010 by zippy_do46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 The Book of Mormon does contain the fullness of the gospel. 1. It preaches of Christ's ministry and atonement better than the Bible. 2. It explains the need for living prophets and apostles, revelation, and authority. 3. It explains the "Doctrine of Christ" (2 Ne 31, 3 Ne 11), which is that the First Principles and Ordinances lead us to unity with each other and with Christ, even as Christ is one with the Father. 4. It teaches us the key things of the temple, including the Creation, the Fall of Adam, the Atonement of Christ, and how we can return to the Presence of God from the fallen world we now live in (1 Ne 1, 1 Ne 8-15, 2 Ne 2, Alma 9-13, 3 Ne 11-27, 4 Ne, etc). Temple marriage and other issues like that are all encapsulated in the above 4 items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mormonmusic Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 The Book of Mormon does contain the fullness of the gospel.4. It teaches us the key things of the temple...CAn you point out where specifically with a chapter and verse? Just curious to look it up. You quoted some chapters but I wasn't sure which of the several points they line up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 The key to the temple is the story. There is a Creation, a Fall, and a return to the Presence of God. Each of the scriptures I gave discuss at least portions of this. We see this threaded throughout the scriptures, including the Bible - which is evidence that the BoM is the word of God.For example, David Larsen shows how the Moses Story is the story of Creation, Fall, and Return to God's Presence (at Sinai). Heavenly AscentsWe see the same thing throughout the BoM. In 1 Nephi 1 Nephite begins/creates the story/book about his family. The Israelites have fallen from God's presence. Lehi returns to God's presence in visions. We see this in the Vision of the Tree of Life, Jacob's teaching at the temple, Lehi teaching Jacob about opposition, Alma teaching about priesthood in the premortal existence, 3 Ne 1-27 show the Nephites recreated at Jesus' birth with the star, their fall afterwards, and then their return to God's presence. And of course the obvious one is the Brother of Jared's story.This is what each of us goes through in our lives. We go through it symbolically in the temple. D&C 84 teaches us that the MP gives the key of the mysteries of godliness, and through the ordinances God is revealed. Moses tried to take Israel up the mountain to see God.All of it is temple stuff. We also see the same theme in the Book of Moses and Book of Abraham, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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