Heaven and Hell - the pathway to achieve

[Adomini22]

Good afternoon everyone. I wanted to admit that I have a potential belief issue. It is hard for me to reconcile my beliefs on salvation and heaven. Some previous threads have already touched upon this subject, and I thank those that participated.

Is salvation a gift? I would say so, because Jesus made it so. However, I have a hard time believing that the plan of salvation would be used if in fact 90% of Heavenly Fathers children will not make it. I mean, think about it. The path is straight and narrow correct? Why would someone put us on a path that will lead to such a high failure rate? On top of that, why would such a test be so critical when His children are laden with trials that ensure such a failure rate? I understand that we agreed to this before being born- as a way to learn though.

I know each of us has to do our part and repent. This is true if one wants to become like deity. But those others that fail? I deep down do not believe that God will send them to Hell. Maybe a form of hell (aka, not be like deity) but that is it. And, I believe a lot of people will be fine with such a choice. I also believe that there are some who serve better Gods purpose while not being a member of this church. Just a thought. Am I way off base with this?

[Traveler]

Good afternoon everyone. I wanted to admit that I have a potential belief issue. It is hard for me to reconcile my beliefs on salvation and heaven. Some previous threads have already touched upon this subject, and I thank those that participated.

Is salvation a gift? I would say so, because Jesus made it so. However, I have a hard time believing that the plan of salvation would be used if in fact 90% of Heavenly Fathers children will not make it. I mean, think about it. The path is straight and narrow correct? Why would someone put us on a path that will lead to such a high failure rate? On top of that, why would such a test be so critical when His children are laden with trials that ensure such a failure rate? I understand that we agreed to this before being born- as a way to learn though.

I know each of us has to do our part and repent. This is true if one wants to become like deity. But those others that fail? I deep down do not believe that God will send them to Hell. Maybe a form of hell (aka, not be like deity) but that is it. And, I believe a lot of people will be fine with such a choice. I also believe that there are some who serve better Gods purpose while not being a member of this church. Just a thought. Am I way off base with this?

I believe you have touched on a subject that is far more involved than a discussion on an internet forum. In essence it is obvious to me that G-d does not force anything on anyone. I believe the “judgment” of G-d is a glorious and wonderful thing for everyone. I have speculated that at the judgment that some Christians and LDS will view the divine structure and law of the Celestial Kingdom and sincerely ask G-d if there is not a place more suitable to their likings. Of course there is. There is a law, glory and society that are everything they have ever dreamed for and desire.

If you believe salvation is all about you; your blessings, your happiness, your glory, your desires, your passions, your wants and getting things for you – I believe the Celestial Kingdom will be a grand disappointment to you on a divine scale. For that reason I believe many will be much happier somewhere else getting all the “free” stuff where there is not much in the way of commitment and sacrifice. It is not about the destination as much as it is about the way given to us as an example by Christ.

BTW – there is only one way to serve G-d’s purpose and that is by loyalty to his covenants. Everything else is an illusion and distraction.

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

I don't believe most people won't 'make it to heaven'. I believe most of them will, and the only ones who will not make it, will refuse to come.

Now, LDS believe in kingdoms/levels in heaven. It makes sense to me, but I don't sweat the details. Especially since I heard about members in a higher kingdom being able to visit those in lower kingdoms.

LM

[hordak]

I also believe that there are some who serve better Gods purpose while not being a member of this church. Just a thought. Am I way off base with this?

Fact of the matter is the vast majority of the inhabitants of the CK will not have been members. In 1990 more children died before reaching the age of 5 then the entire membership of the church. 12.7 million. 2008 was 8.8 and 2007 was 9.2.

In just 3 years 30.7 million people qualified for the Celestial Kingdom. This is fairly recent with advanced technology.(though much of the deaths come from 3rd world countries) Us Mormons (assuming i make it) will be few and far between there.

Also what makes you think only 90% will make it?

8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

I would argue given the long history of man and the short time/ limited area the gospel has been available means even more (non before the age of accountability deaths) will get in then members. The Celestial kingdom is not a place reserved for LDS members and anyone who tells you so doesn't understand the scriptures or math.

[Elgama]

Am I alone in not entirely caring what happens after I leave mortality - I trust Heavenly Father will do what is right for myself and my family, if I do His will here in mortality this is my favourite Hymn it actually came to mind when I read the OP

Lead Kindly Light Hymn

Lead, kindly Light, amid th’encircling gloom, lead Thou me on!

The night is dark, and I am far from home; lead Thou me on!

Keep Thou my feet; I do not ask to see

The distant scene; one step enough for me.

I was not ever thus, nor prayed that Thou shouldst lead me on;

I loved to choose and see my path; but now lead Thou me on!

I loved the garish day, and, spite of fears,

Pride ruled my will. Remember not past years!

So long Thy power hath blest me, sure it still will lead me on.

O’er moor and fen, o’er crag and torrent, till the night is gone,

And with the morn those angel faces smile, which I

Have loved long since, and lost awhile!

Meantime, along the narrow rugged path, Thyself hast trod,

Lead, Savior, lead me home in childlike faith, home to my God.

To rest forever after earthly strife

In the calm light of everlasting life.

[Adomini22]

For everyone who responded, thank you for doing so. I understand all of the births and sudden deaths of infants qualifying for the CK. Its easier when one does not have a track record to allow choice on earth. They must have been very strong in the premortal existence.

My guess of 90% failure rate is coming from the hundreds of millions that either lived in the past or live presently that will not choose to live like a celestial person here on earth. That is just a guess, however.

I just feel that the number one purpose in life is to make choices and grow. (plus get a physical body). I feel that one should make choices, even wrong ones (when confused) to learn and grow.

All other tests of obedience and even choice have been and potentially could be in a whole different realm. (premortal or spirit world)

Am I making any sense to anyone? I have a terrible weakness in conveying my ideas, so apologies in advance.

[Elgama]

I don't know for me being a Latter Day Saint is not a choice, right now more than ever I wish it was - for me going against God, deliberately defying Him is not a choice

[Dravin]

This is true if one wants to become like deity. But those others that fail? I deep down do not believe that God will send them to Hell. Maybe a form of hell (aka, not be like deity) but that is it.

Your profile says you are LDS. LDS Theology coincides with this, with the exclusion of sons of perdition (and they are nowhere near 90%) everyone receives a Kingdom of Glory. Obviously that glory varies and as such the consequence is some will be less like deity as you say, but Baptist style fire and brimstone for eternity is not what we believe will happen to all those who fail to make it to dwell with God and be most like him .

[JudoMinja]

Your 90% failure estimate is probably fairly close if you are applying it to those who will not make it into the CK. However, there are many levels of heaven, and I prefer to look at it as (at least) a 90% success rate, because this is about the number of people that will be making it into "heaven" or some degree thereof.

We will all obtain whatever degree of glory is cut out for us. Not everyone will make it to the CK, but those that do not probably would not have been happy there anyway.

[MisterT]

I think that the Lord will be far more forgiving of our trespasses than we could even hope for. Were I to be harshly judged for everything I've ever done and have not received forgiveness for, I think I would find eternity long and boring.

But what we have instead of harsh judgement is an advocate who will speak on our behalf with the Father; an advocate who will seek for, and receive the mercy of the Almighty, in a way we could never do for ourselves.

[Intrigued]

I doubt that if one goes to a lower kingdom that they will be "stuck" there forever. Unless they so choose.

[Traveler]

I doubt that if one goes to a lower kingdom that they will be "stuck" there forever. Unless they so choose.

I doubt that anyone in any kingdom will be there without making a choise to be there. I believe life here does have a real purpose and actual meaning. I do not think this is pretend and woopsie kind of thing.

The Traveler