What level of commitment is required in your Church?

[Guest mormonmusic]

I was wondering this the other day. All my adult life I've been a Mormon so I haven't had much exposure to life as a member of a non-LDS denomination.

To our non-LDS friends, what level of commitment is "expected" (if that's the right word) in your faith for members to be considered engaged in the gospel? I'm sincerely interested in hearing what you feel is expected of you in terms of financial resources dedicated, time dedicated or other resources you must give up to be considered an active rank and file member of your organization, a volunteer leader, or even a paid leader in your organization.

Edited May 31, 2010 by mormonmusic
Changed "our" to "your" in the last sentence, second last word

[prisonchaplain]

Answers will vary wildly on this, imho. Probably the least demanding churches are the "seeker-sensitive" mega-churches. They are all about making the non-Christian seeker (aka investigator) feel comfortable and non-threatened. In fact, when we moved to our current area, I checked one of these out and quickly realized there was nothing for me to do there. Once your converted, it seems, you simply help others get converted. There seems to be little instruction in how to mature as a Christian.

In my fellowship, we have two "tiers." Adherents are those who come frequently to regularly. They attend the worship meetings, and may choose to join the fellowship opportunities. Often 35-50% of the Sunday gathering is made up of these folks. They may or may not give an offering, and sometimes remain in this status for many months to even a few years.

Members, on the other hand, are those who commit to officially joining the church. They usually agree to tithe, and to join a small group. As their gifts become evident they will usually be encouraged to lend a hand in one of the church's ministries (Sunday School, Women's Ministry, etc.). Of the membership, most tithe, and more than half join or small group or help out in a ministry. Maybe one-third do both.

[pam]

This is a good way to learn more about other faiths. However, let's just remember that we must not make this a "My commitment level is more than your commitment level" kind of thing.

[Guest mormonmusic]

This is a good way to learn more about other faiths. However, let's just remember that we must not make this a "My commitment level is more than your commitment level" kind of thing.

Funny you should say that Pam. When I posed the original question, I had actually included a disclaimer saying the question was "not meant to imply other faiths require less commitment from their members" or similar to address your concern here. But I took it out because I thought it was unecessary and simply indicated I was sincerely curious and nothing more.

Now it looks like I should've put it in.

I agree there should be no comparisons one way or the other; personally I'm simply interested in knowing as I've never experienced another church as an adult other than my own.

[prisonchaplain]

On the other hand, there is no doubt that with the LDS system of callings, Temple Recommend interviews, and weekly program means that the active member who is Temple worthy is busy indeed. We have folks that busy in our church, but not as many.

[pam]

Funny you should say that Pam. When I posed the original question, I had actually included a disclaimer saying the question was "not meant to imply other faiths require less commitment from their members" or similar to address your concern here. But I took it out because I thought it was unecessary and simply indicated I was sincerely curious and nothing more.

Now it looks like I should've put it in.

I agree there should be no comparisons one way or the other; personally I'm simply interested in knowing as I've never experienced another church as an adult other than my own.

Just experience. :)

[ADoyle90815]

Other churches welcome anyone who walks through the door on Sunday, and if someone wants to become a member, they have classes they take for a year or so to make sure they understand what being a member really means. In the church I go to, there is no pressure to join, and someone is welcome to attend without becoming an actual member. Other churches also publish their financial records, and have them available for anyone attending, to show how their donations are actually being used. Yes, the clergy is paid, but they're trained in theology as well as psychology so they can provide counseling.

[Hemidakota]

I was wondering this the other day. All my adult life I've been a Mormon so I haven't had much exposure to life as a member of a non-LDS denomination.

To our non-LDS friends, what level of commitment is "expected" (if that's the right word) in your faith for members to be considered engaged in the gospel? I'm sincerely interested in hearing what you feel is expected of you in terms of financial resources dedicated, time dedicated or other resources you must give up to be considered an active rank and file member of your organization, a volunteer leader, or even a paid leader in your organization.

I would say, to the level of magnification. We simple give it all, our time, our talents, our best abilities to the Lord. It is not for the Branch President, the Bishopric, Stake President, Regional President, General Authorities, or the brethren. We give it to the Lord that we may add honor to Him; He in return, may honor the FATHER. We should never honor ourselves in anyway.

My monetary resources belong to the Lord. I simply borrow from Him in what I need to live on. Example of such, I been asked at times by leadership, do I have such and such amount in my wallet? I do not hesitate but to ask how much do you need for so-so. If I come up to you Mormonmusic and asked you to bring me a check for XXXXX amount, would you hesitate? In addition, I do not put in any receipts to have the church pay me back. I simply would state, it is the Lord's money and not mine.

I have learned through experience, if we give it all for the right reason in serving the Master by honoring Him, unexpectedly, He will rewarded after your faithful service. This has happened on more than one occasion.

I simply believe to be active is more than being counted in church or aspire to honor of men [to be seen by them in your work]. Our activity, is to serve others without being told and we do it to be a blessing to them and the Savior. I have at times, would show up early to help arrangement of the chapel, fold the programs, turn on the lights, unlock doors, greet people at the door, classroom setup with chairs, cleanup the chapel afterward, all of which, without being told. I just simply do it that it would please our Elder Brother.

[SeekingTruth]

Within the Catholic Church, it is required that one go to Mass on all Sundays and Holy Days of Obligations (different feasts or 'celebrations' on certain days throughout the year), to receive Holy Communion at least once a year during the Easter season, and to go to Confession once a year. Oh, and one must follow the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church.

These come from the precepts of the Catholic Church.

We're supposed to support the Church materially, as much as each is able. A tithe of 10% is generally encouraged-- 5% to your local parish and 5% to charity.

Of course, these are the "minimums" established by the Church. The Church highly recommends frequent reception of the Sacraments of Eucharist (Communion) and Penance (confession), daily prayer, participation in faith groups, and the like so that one can truly grow in their spiritual life.

[Hemidakota]

Do they still pass around plate? It has been awhile for me since my childhood, at a local mass.

[SeekingTruth]

Yeah-- there's usually a collection at every Sunday Mass. A basket that is passed around through the pews. But I think (I'm not employed yet, so I haven't any way to materially support the Church) that there's also a way to make your support in other ways.

[Hemidakota]

that there's also a way to make your support in other ways.

Exactly....thanks for the update.

[Guest mirancs8]

The faith that I was raised with was very traditional and probably hasn't changed in 100s if not 1000s of years. You go to church and sit there for over 3 hours listening to the same thing every week. There is a 5 minute sermon but that's it. That simple 5 minute sermon can cause a tizzy among the congregation. I recall once the Priest said that us ladies should not wear lipstick when we are going to take communion. Well you would think he was asking to do something illegal! We never were allowed to do so but because a few decided to push the rules many women followed. Long story short... it was a huge mess for the poor Priest! All the years I was a member I NEVER paid tithing. My parents haven't paid tithing ever since I can remember either. But we were all still listed as "members" of the church. You dare not ask someone to volunteer their time, I mean really who the heck do you think you are?!

I had never read the Bible until some 9 years ago and it was ONLY when I found the Book of Mormon a little over 8 years ago that it even peaked my interest to study the Bible in more depth. There were no Bible study nor gospel classes. The Holy Ghost is of minimal importance and really has very little purpose. Most wouldn't even know what the Holy Ghost was if you asked them. Don't dare to question the Trinity as I did that a number of times and made very quick enemies. Nothing was ever asked of me NOR expected of me.

Repentance... what's that? All I have to do is go to church confess my sins silently in my mind, take communion and as I walk out all is clear and I am off to the next sins of the week. There was zero accountability. Now this church of course is full of traditions which alone can make a huge impression on you when you are there. It is beautiful. But when it comes to being a member it was basically at least show up on the holidays, take communion when your bag of sin is overflowing, and take your children to Sunday school so they can make friends.

I did go to Protestant, Independent Baptist, and Catholic services and they seemed more active as members then the church I grew up in. Though tithing wasn't expected and it wasn't like if you didn't pay your tithing something would be withheld from you. There doors were open and you were all equal members whether you paid tithing or not. Just from my own experiences the LDS church is far different in this area then the churches I have been to. Just being able to be Temple worthy and how very hard you work on your personal self to reach that is something that greatly differs us from other denominations. Your actions speak far louder then words. Prove it that you are worthy.

I like the quote that was on The Mormon documentary by James Clayton. I think he said it very well.

"There are serious consequences for failing to qualify for a temple recommend. Among them are the fact that you can't hold a higher position in church administration. You can't work for the church in, say, BYU or in other church-affiliated institutions. You cannot marry in the temple. You cannot go to the temple to see your own children married if you are not worthy to have a temple recommend. So it's a process of excluding people in order to refine their religious devotion."

We are unique there is no arguing that.

For me personally it takes a large amount of loyalty, commitment, and faithfulness to be a member of the LDS church. It's that your either with me 100% or your not type of mentality. You are expected give as much as you receive from the church. Most all your free time is devoted in some way to church service/activities/fellowship. If you think about it how many denominations are run by the members themselves... not many. How many denominations are so well organized and structured to work like a well oiled machine? It's interesting to me as a convert because I know what it is like to be something other than a Mormon.

Every denomination has something that makes them different from the other. Another thing that stands out to me about the Mormon church is the feeling of family in the Ward. I never experienced that at any other denomination.

[kimiko]

Before converting to LDS, I was a member of United Methodist and non-denominational churches, and in my experience the level of required commitment is none. The encouragement that we have in the LDS church to volunteer, pay tithing, help others, study scriptures, etc. was just not present in any of the other churches I have attended over the years

I church hopped for a long time. I went to one non-denominational church and filled out the visitor card. A few days latter, I got a $5 Starbucks gift card in the mail from them with a letter asking me to come back. I never went back because a church having to bribe people to attend just seemed so wrong to me. (But I did use that gift card. heh)

When I became a "member" of the United Methodist church, there was no formal interview like we have in LDS. There was nothing to sign. There was no member record. I was never asked to pay tithing, so I never did. Putting money in the plate they pass around during the Sunday service felt really awkward to me anyway.

The first thing I noticed when I began attending the LDS church was the level of commitment that people had to studying scriptures. I have never seen that before in any church. It's ultimately what kept me coming back.

[prisonchaplain]

The last two posts highlight a truth I remember from years ago--new converts really hunger for concrete guidelines on how to serve God. Do this, don't do that...and by all means, join this and participate in that. I remember one independent Baptist minister telling us of a young hippie he led to conversion. He grinned as he recounted the new believer asking, "So, what should I do first?" "I told him to get a haircut!"

I was aghast. Yet, the "new babe in Christ" was likely thrilled at such a clearcut task he could complete to please his new Master. I just hope the minister went on to teach him about prayer, scripture study, etc. :-)

[Guest]

It may seem that the Catholic church requires less from its members than the LDS Church (I have experience in both) but this is not really the case.

The difference in the 2 is that a Catholic need to seek his/her own involvement whereas an LDS member is sought by other members to get involved.

When I was Catholic (my mother would wag her finger if she ever hears me say that because in the Catholic church - once you are baptized you are Catholic forever)... anyway, when I was going to the Catholic church, I was just as active/busy as when I started going to the LDS church. I was a member of the choir that meets for 2 hours weekly during regular season and sometimes would meet for an hour daily during special seasons such as advent/christmas and lent/easter. I also volunteered to teach CCD classes every Wednesday and then we have the Filipino-sponsored activities like fiestas and the like. Then there's the weekly abstinence (no meat Fridays) then there's Lenten abstinence, etc. etc. etc... all this in addition to the weekly Sunday Mass plus Holy days of obligation (Ash Wednesday, etc.) plus regular confessions and the like. Scripture study is personal which I did in preparation for Sunday's sermon where there is always one reading from the Old Testament, one reading from the Psalms, one reading from the 4 New Testament gospels, and one reading from the Acts of the Apostles during Sunday mass. Then there was the time when I attended Catechism.

But all the things I did as a Catholic was my own desire and my own drive. If I stop doing any of the things, the regular membership wouldn't really care much except for a few inquiries by the parish priest, the choir director, the CCD coordinator, etc. to wonder what happened to me. Nobody comes to visit me at my house. Well, my mother would probably put my name in the prayer box and bop my head a few, but then, she's my mother. There's no temple recommend to strive for, so you really don't have to answer to anybody but yourself.

I'm not really sure if I was clear in expressing the "same but different" aspects of LDS and Catholic levels of commitment. That's the thing about the Catholic and LDS churches, the two aren't really that far off than most people make them out to be.

P.S. I didn't mention tithing... besides the temple recommend interview, the two are not too far off either. There's no "consequence" to not paying full tithe in the Catholic church outside Divine judgment. When you apply for sacraments - like getting baptized or married - you may have to pay a tithe to get the sacrament but you will find that you can still get the sacraments anyway if you don't pay it. So, tithing is becomes a personal commitment. But the doctrine governing it is the same in such that the Catholic church teaches to contribute 10% of your increase to the church. Now, because there is no apparent consequence for not paying tithe in the Catholic church you will find a lot of Catholics say you don't need to. Well, yes, as a Catholic you do need to.

Edited July 3, 2010 by anatess

[itsanaddictionx]

I go to a non-denominational church. They don't expect you to go every Sunday for service or every Wednesday for youth group, but they get a bit worried of you don't go at all for two weeks. I've gone to the same church all my life, so I'm not sure how they do the whole membership thing. They are quite pushy about everyone in the church attending functions and will get upset if you do not go, so that is a requirement to go to summer camps, picnics, parties, fundraisers, etc. It is also required that you dress a bit modestly. No short skirts, no tube tops, no short shorts. They also require you to tithe weekly for the church, and monthly for local missionaries. That is all that I know.

[hordak]

The faith that I was raised with was very traditional and probably hasn't changed in 100s if not 1000s of years. You go to church and sit there for over 3 hours listening to the same thing every week. There is a 5 minute sermon but that's it. That simple 5 minute sermon can cause a tizzy among the congregation. I recall once the Priest said that us ladies should not wear lipstick when we are going to take communion. Well you would think he was asking to do something illegal! We never were allowed to do so but because a few decided to push the rules many women followed. Long story short... it was a huge mess for the poor Priest!

My faith is pretty big on "appearance" as well and has actually read letters in meeting instructing members not to wear thing like flip flops. I think not taking communion with lipstick (assume your all drinking out of the same glass) is pretty tame in comparison, and some good advice.

All the years I was a member I NEVER paid tithing. My parents haven't paid tithing ever since I can remember either. But we were all still listed as "members" of the church.

We do the same thing. In fact attendance is not required to be listed/ counted as a member once one has been baptized.

I would agree it takes a lot of commitment to be a "good" member (aka peter priesthood/ molly Mormon) (for lack of a better term)

But i don't think it's an all or nothing thing, and don't think the all or nothing approach is a good thing in many cases.

[Melissa569]

This is actually the only major pet peeve I have with the LDS church (which I'm a member of). I think people should be allowed to "move up in the church" if they so desire. But not everybody should be "pressured". Because in the case of people who leave the church-- the pressure is almost always the reason why. We lose an awful lot of people because of it. That's what drove most of my family away, in fact.

Sure, some people might argue, "Well, ask yourself what would drive them away from getting closer to god? Evil!"

But you know, I really don't think evil has anything to do with it. Because my family is NOT evil. They are good, honest and loving people.

But too much hounding, clinginess and pressure can make just about anybody pull out of anything! I mean, think about it-- have you ever had a boyfriend/girlfriend who just HAD to be by your side, every waking moment? Who demanded you devote all your free time to them, and complained when you got too involved in your own interests? Who called you dozens of times a day? Who accused you of being an evil, ditry, rotton cheater every time you went somewhere without them?

Those partners always CLAIM they act like that because they love you, and they "just wanna get closer". And maybe they really do feel that way. But what they don't know, is that the way they are acting actually has the oposite effect on you, from what they are hoping for. Its creeping you out, smothering you, and making you want to pull away. You don't feel free to be yourself around them. You feel like everything always has to be about what THEY want, and to heck with you, or your life.

Some people (like me) just want to be able to love their fellow human beings, lead a decent life, and come to church on Sundays for a spiritual pick-me-up. I worm out of a lot of in-home teahcings, and my church attendance is patchy (maybe every other Sunday, or less), because whenever I'm there, I always feel like everybody is saying, "Hurry! You MUST get all the books read, and get to the temple as soon as possible!". But if I didn't feel that, I would probably go every sunday. Again, evil is not an issue. I do the same in every other aspect of my life, because I just don't like being chased and pressured. Just like with relationships, I like being free to get closer on my own.

And quite frankly, I don't really feel a need to get to the temple very urgently. None of my current family or friends will ever go there. Not even my husband! So if I did move up to the higher kingdoms, nobody I knew from my earthly life would be there. I also can't fulfill certain cevenants, because we're not gonna have kids. Partly because my husband DOES NOT want them (and I'm not sure), and partly because we never use protection, but still after 6 years I've never gotten pregnant. I don't know if its me or him, because we are both each other's firsts, and we fall between the cracks on medical insurence (can't afford to pay it ourselves, but aren't poor enough for the state to cover it). So we have no business racking up a forune in maternal medical bills anyway. And we don't qualify for adption (even if we did, he still doesn't want them). So.... Yeah.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Melissa569

[prisonchaplain]

Melissa's perspective is so valuable. However, the other side is that many Protestants and evangelicals probably join your church because the koinania (community, togetherness) is so built-in. The structure, the social activity, the caring...these draw people. My guess is that it is those "born under the covenant" who take such for granted, and find the community pressures burdensome and stifling.

[Melissa569]

Melissa's perspective is so valuable. However, the other side is that many Protestants and evangelicals probably join your church because the koinania (community, togetherness) is so built-in. The structure, the social activity, the caring...these draw people. My guess is that it is those "born under the covenant" who take such for granted, and find the community pressures burdensome and stifling.

Yeah, my family joined when I was very young, while we were living in Germany (military family stationed there). We were pretty active in Germany, because we were looking for more "American togetherness" I suppose, and our ward had the American/military ward in the morning, followed by the local German ward in the afternoon.

But after we came back to the USA, my parents divorced when I was 11, and we all moved to different areas and became inactive. I went back about 6 months ago (at age 28) because all I ever rememebered was the nice "family and Jesus" structure from before. But as an adult, I'm noticing its not what I remember. There's a lot of pressures and demands that simply didn't "appear" to be there when I was a child.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Melissa569

[Hemidakota]

It is hard to be a military brat...I know how rough it can be moving constantly and have to make new friends.

[todd520]

I would think churches have high expecations, at least compared to their achieve levels

Some churches have a culture or system in place that drives up the actual achieve levels.

I also think this varies a great deal by community or Parish/Stake/etc.