Is this blasphemous?

[Hemidakota]

What is time and how is time measured? For us, measurement is based on global rotational rate and earth orbital around our Sun. What if GOD's world rotates? We do know the Sun rotates at 25-35 days (depending on what is being observed by us) Yes! Not far in being plausible based on nearby stars we can observed from other galaxies. Furthering the postulation, what if GOD's home world resides at the core of the galaxy covered by a veil. Concerning a veil covering, Hugh Nibley once stated:

“We on earth are not aware of all this because we comprehend only what we are like. Not only is God rendered invisible by the impenetrable veil of light that surrounds him, but he has purposely "placed veils between the worlds," that all treasures may be hid from those who do not seek them in the proper way. On the other side of the veil of the temple lay "the secrets of heaven," the celestial spaces that know no bounds, and all that they contain.” (Old Testament and Related Studies, by John W. Welch, Hugh Nibley, Gary P. Gillum)

The Sun orbits the center of the Milky Way at a distance of approximately 24,000 light years from a galactic center, completing one clockwise orbit, as viewed from the galactic north pole, in about 250 million years. Based on movements of nearby galaxies, we are moving in specific direction at 630 km per second. As we assume now in Astrophysics, this galaxy maybe moving around a centric core of the universe within a mega galaxy and according to those who still believe in the big bang theory, moving outward from this centric core.

We can apply a further measurement of the earth, when it enters the paradiscal realm, it will be on a terrestrial measurement of time. How? We are told there will be 1000-year period according to our own telestial measurement, explaining how long it will last.

Is this still time measurement? Maybe not on our own telestial level but on GOD’s level and those who belong this unknown celestial measurement…GOD is only outside of both telestial and terrestrial, but, I don’t believe HE is outside of the celestial measurement.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Seminarysnoozer]

Remember that my argument is that we cannot necessarily place limitations on God just because we have that limitation. Specifically, we cannot assume that God is bound by our sequential time just because we are. So whether God is timeless or is in god Time independent of ours, both support my position. I don't need to use a more stringent support (remember this illustration is just a support) for my argument.

Now let's sort out this confusion remembering that I'm using two different times - god Time and our time - and they cannot be arbitrarily mixed (I tried to keep things distinct before by speaking expressly of stick people time and god time vs our time and God's time, but I'm going to mix them here because I have to go soon). My comments will be in blue.

There is lots to gain through the exercise of running the screens. Stick person Moses realizes his full potential and joins the exalted familiy. Stick person Enoch fills the measure of his creation. And for the screen god, he gains the accomplishment of a job well done (outside of stick people time).

I don't think I am expressing myself well enough, I apologize for that. You started out saying that God could go back in time, or at least suggested that as a possibility as well as jumping ahead. If you are now saying God's time is also sequential then I have no argument with you. It is either sequential or He can jump around in time. What is it?

The importance of saying it that way is to support my very first comment that you reacted to which was God has one limitation and that is that He cannot realize something is done until it is actually done, whatever the time frame. In other words, He can't claim the credit for something that will be done in the future if it hasn't been realized or actualized yet, even if He can see it in the future. In other words, there is a value placed on actually completing the act.

With a timeless God though, I can see how one could say that the value of some future act (future to us) was already obtained by God, but then there would be no "bringing to pass" anything because for that type of God everything has already been brought to pass and His work would be over for Him. Do you believe in a God who's work is complete? If not, what is it that He has to complete, in your mind? .... if you say something to the effect of "letting us run the program through" then you are agreeing with me that there is some value to actually completing the project, which was my original statement.

[Seminarysnoozer]

There is lots to gain through the exercise of running the screens. Stick person Moses realizes his full potential and joins the exalted familiy. Stick person Enoch fills the measure of his creation. And for the screen god, he gains the accomplishment of a job well done (outside of stick people time).

The problem with your argument though is that the only thing to "gain" relates to that individual, "stick person Moses" and there is nothing gained for God. There is no "job well done" for God in your argument because with a timeless God, He has already done the job. So, you are stating that God's glory does not change if you or I make it into the Celestial Kingdom. I am not saying that is a wrong belief, I just don't comprehend that belief, it is different than the way I was taught, that God's work is to "bring to pass" the immortality and Eternal life of man.

[Hemidakota]

Maybe it would be wiser to define what we believe glory is? Defined in the LDS theology, it states in D&C 93:36 - "The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth."

What is LIGHT and TRUTH? D&C 93:29 - "Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be."

In clear terms, now, what is the Glory of GOD?

Edited July 21, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Seminarysnoozer]

Maybe it would be wiser to define what we believe glory is? Defined in the LDS theology, it states in D&C 93:36 - "The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth."

What is LIGHT and TRUTH? D&C 93:29 - "Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be."

In clear terms, now, what is the Glory of GOD?

In Moses 4:2, glory is also defined as when we do His will. ... This is one of the great premises of our religion, that our own glory will be determined by what we do, is it not?

[Seminarysnoozer]

What is time and how is time measured? For us, measurement is based on global rotational rate and earth orbital around our Sun. What if GOD's world rotates? We do know the Sun rotates at 25-35 days (depending on what is being observed by us) Yes! Not far in being plausible based on nearby stars we can observed from other galaxies. Furthering the postulation, what if GOD's home world resides at the core of the galaxy covered by a veil. Concerning a veil covering, Hugh Nibley once stated:

“We on earth are not aware of all this because we comprehend only what we are like. Not only is God rendered invisible by the impenetrable veil of light that surrounds him, but he has purposely "placed veils between the worlds," that all treasures may be hid from those who do not seek them in the proper way. On the other side of the veil of the temple lay "the secrets of heaven," the celestial spaces that know no bounds, and all that they contain.” (Old Testament and Related Studies, by John W. Welch, Hugh Nibley, Gary P. Gillum)

The Sun orbits the center of the Milky Way at a distance of approximately 24,000 light years from a galactic center, completing one clockwise orbit, as viewed from the galactic north pole, in about 250 million years. Based on movements of nearby galaxies, we are moving in specific direction at 630 km per second. As we assume now in Astrophysics, this galaxy maybe moving around a centric core of the universe within a mega galaxy and according to those who still believe in the big bang theory, moving outward from this centric core.

We can apply a further measurement of the earth, when it enters the paradiscal realm, it will be on a terrestrial measurement of time. How? We are told there will be 1000-year period according to our own telestial measurement, explaining how long it will last.

Is this still time measurement? Maybe not on our own telestial level but on GOD’s level and those who belong this unknown celestial measurement…GOD is only outside of both telestial and terrestrial, but, I don’t believe HE is outside of the celestial measurement.

Measuring God's time is an impossible task for us but that is not what was said. What was said was that God has no time, that He is timeless. I believe God lives in a different time frame than ours with different references to time but one of the irrevocable laws, I believe, is that God cannot manipulate the past. Things that are historical remain historical, the past remains the past. I do not believe in a God that can manipulate the past or "redo" that which has been done. That would destroy the value of doing anything because if He could change the past then there is no value to the present, it could always be done over again. I think that thought process changes the critical nature of our choices, as if everything is done in pencil and we can erase it and do it over again. That is different than what the atonement does, the atonement is a recompense for our mistakes, not a do-over. And I am not just talking about remembering the past, but changing the past, God cannot do. That would be the definition of time, a state in which events passed could not be changed.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Some LDS believe that God does not know the future. He knows all that is possible to know up to this very moment. God dwells in time, similar to ours. In this way, he can, as a master chess player, make determine many possible moves in advance, yet still the pieces on the chess board have free play/movement and can move according to the moment's actual circumstances. God is able to grow, because while he can anticipate future things, such as his own expansion of kingdoms, he has yet to experience them. The Lectures on Faith state that God creates through the power of faith. Yet, the Book of Mormon tells us that knowledge is not faith. If God absolutely knows all things in the future, then how can he exercise faith? He cannot.

.

I think there is also a difference between knowing the future and realizing that something has been done. God can know the future but He does not know that it has been done until it is done. That sounds like a twist on words but the reason to say it that way is to know that there is a value to actually doing the act and that God can feel the emotion associated with that act when it is done.

I know my son will go on a mission some day and leave the house. Even knowing that, I will likely feel the emotion of it a lot different then, as it happens than now when I am just thinking about a future event. In a remotely similar way (remotely because I know God's future vision is more keen than mine) God, I don't think, feels the full emotion of the event or glory for that matter until the event is realized (actually done).

[Vanhin]

A few points to reiterate.

God resides on a "globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord." (D&C 130:7)

There clearly is a difference between time and eternity. When we covenant in the Temple, it is for the "generations of time and throughout all eternity".

And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity... (D&C 132:7)

Time is something given to us in this sphere for probationary reasons, so that we have an opportunity to repent. (see Alma 42:4)

"...there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal." (Abr. 3:18)

So, according to the scriptures:

1) All things past, present, and future are continually before the Lord.

2) Time and eternity are not the same thing.

3) Time is part of this sphere of existence, where we are given an opportunity to repent and prepare for eternity.

4) The spirits of mankind, including God, are eternal, meaning they have no beginning and no end.

Regards,

Vanhin

[James_Fryman]

Humans dont have a full understanding of time is, because of that its impossible to tell whats ment by "time and all eternity." I personally dont think time exists, i think its just an illusion of creation and death and of humans ability to know that something has happened and something will happen.

[Justice]

Time is something given to us in this sphere for probationary reasons, so that we have an opportunity to repent. (see Alma 42:4)

To continue this thought a bit...

Doesn't mortality become the driver for the plan?

Doesn't mortality become the only way in which a Savior can be born?

The entire purpose for the creation was to act as a "safety net" to those who fall. Instead of falling from the presence of God spiritually, which is eternal (because that's where God dwells--and where the fall would have taken place) the creation allowed for a fall to a temporary state in which man was given time before he was judged finally.

Since a voluntary Redeemer was allowed to be born mortal, and that Redeemer could literally reverse the effects of the fall of mankind in His own body, He could pass that on to all who were mortal and died because of His victory over death.

Then, all who stand before God in a penitent state, with a broken heart and contrite spirit, relying on the merits of the Redeemer, will be as if there was no fall, and be restored to their presence with the Father, having gained the knowledge of good and evil, and having made certain covenants and ordinances that allow them to "inherit all that God has."

Or, in other words, they will be like God.

So, wouldn't it make sense that Satan wanted to remove mortality? (See Alma 12 and 42)

[ronism99403]

Why not elevate the concept of mercy to a law status as you did with the concept of justice?

George MacDonald once said that God's justice and mercy are the same. His justice is merciful and His mercy is just.

[rameumptom]

The problem with your argument though is that the only thing to "gain" relates to that individual, "stick person Moses" and there is nothing gained for God. There is no "job well done" for God in your argument because with a timeless God, He has already done the job. So, you are stating that God's glory does not change if you or I make it into the Celestial Kingdom. I am not saying that is a wrong belief, I just don't comprehend that belief, it is different than the way I was taught, that God's work is to "bring to pass" the immortality and Eternal life of man.

It also means that we go through each moment of our mortality in an endless cycle. If God sees and experiences all things in one moment, then he is experiencing my birth, my 10th birthday, my 50th birthday and my death, as well as my premortal existence and my post-resurrection being all at once. So, in essence, I am still going through each and every moment of my life continually and forever. For God to experience my all at all moments and times, means I must also be present in some fashion in each of those moments and times.

For God to actually move backward in time, rather than just comprehend all things past, creates many logic problems. Could God go back in time and change something major so suddenly our presence changes? For example, what if he went back and replaced Adam with Roger? Or removed Jesus and atonement out of the equation? How would any thing he would do in the past affect futurity. Also, what would he do when bumping into himself in the past, and have to explain to himself that he needs to change something to improve the future?

The "eternal now" concept that Elder Maxwell came up with is no easier to understand, as we've discussed already. If past, present and future are totally and completely before the Lord, then all things have been completed and at the same time have not been started. God cannot do things sequentially, because they are all present before him. Our progression is not important, because he can already see our end as completed, and could just take us at that end point, rather than also have to suffer with us through the trials of mortality, etc.

[Seminarysnoozer]

It also means that we go through each moment of our mortality in an endless cycle. If God sees and experiences all things in one moment, then he is experiencing my birth, my 10th birthday, my 50th birthday and my death, as well as my premortal existence and my post-resurrection being all at once. So, in essence, I am still going through each and every moment of my life continually and forever. For God to experience my all at all moments and times, means I must also be present in some fashion in each of those moments and times.

For God to actually move backward in time, rather than just comprehend all things past, creates many logic problems. Could God go back in time and change something major so suddenly our presence changes? For example, what if he went back and replaced Adam with Roger? Or removed Jesus and atonement out of the equation? How would any thing he would do in the past affect futurity. Also, what would he do when bumping into himself in the past, and have to explain to himself that he needs to change something to improve the future?

The "eternal now" concept that Elder Maxwell came up with is no easier to understand, as we've discussed already. If past, present and future are totally and completely before the Lord, then all things have been completed and at the same time have not been started. God cannot do things sequentially, because they are all present before him. Our progression is not important, because he can already see our end as completed, and could just take us at that end point, rather than also have to suffer with us through the trials of mortality, etc.

Yes, good comments. It would also throw "As man is, God once was" out the window. Because, if God is timeless, then He would have to be the same all the time as well, He could have never been in a state like man. His "man-like" state would not be in the past, it would also be in the present and in the future for Him, which would make it impossible for Him to remain God. So, people who believe in a timeless God must not believe in a God that has progressed through the ranks, so to speak.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Humans dont have a full understanding of time is, because of that its impossible to tell whats ment by "time and all eternity." I personally dont think time exists, i think its just an illusion of creation and death and of humans ability to know that something has happened and something will happen.

We can say that we don't have a full understanding about almost anything in this world, so that alone doesn't help other than remind people that we don't have all the answers.

Since you opened that can of worms .... why do you not think time exists?

To me, by definition, if "something has happened" then there is time. If you think that what we are calling "something has happened" an illusion, then you are also saying Jesus' crucifixion was an illusion as well as creation and the fall. In other words, you are saying the gospel is an illusion. Really? is that what you are saying?

[Seminarysnoozer]

A few points to reiterate.

God resides on a "globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord." (D&C 130:7)

There clearly is a difference between time and eternity. When we covenant in the Temple, it is for the "generations of time and throughout all eternity".

And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity... (D&C 132:7)

Time is something given to us in this sphere for probationary reasons, so that we have an opportunity to repent. (see Alma 42:4)

"...there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal." (Abr. 3:18)

So, according to the scriptures:

1) All things past, present, and future are continually before the Lord.

2) Time and eternity are not the same thing.

3) Time is part of this sphere of existence, where we are given an opportunity to repent and prepare for eternity.

4) The spirits of mankind, including God, are eternal, meaning they have no beginning and no end.

Regards,

Vanhin

Thanks Vanhin, I think these comments point out the confusion between the ability to see all time versus the ability to affect all time. I do not think God can change the past which doesn't mean that He can't see all of the past. There is a difference. What was previously being suggested was the ability to go back in time and change something that has already transpired. So, in that sense, God has to pass through a sequential time just like we do, even though all is before Him. I think people confuse that with some 'sci-fi' ability to travel in time.

[Moksha]

I think people confuse that with some 'sci-fi' ability to travel in time.

Good point. That way historians can feel safe when pondering and snickering about the Palin Conundrum, without having those past events altered on them.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Good point. That way historians can feel safe when pondering and snickering about the Palin Conundrum, without having those past events altered on them.

I thought not letting the "past haunt you" was only in reference to events that that individual experienced. But I suppose historians, being more in tune to the past, can be 'haunted' and thus need to "feel safe" vicariously.

[mordorbund]

Mordorbund,

But how does one define "God time"? Is it sequential or non-sequential? If sequential, then we can surmise from our own experience things concerning his time. If it is non-sequential, then there are logic issues that cannot be resolved, even by God.

For example, if God literally sees all the future as being in the "eternal now", how is it that we can have free will and agency? If God has already seen everything I am going to do, whether he wills it or not, how is it that I can have true choice in the things I do? Suddenly, the universe becomes fixed, change and repentance are meaningless, because those who will repent have already done so in God's eyes. We literally hit the problems found in Calvin's TULIP. God has already chosen those who will be exalted, simply because he already knows what will happen. There is a limited atonement, as those who will not be exalted and those who will burn in Outer Darkness have already been preselected before they even reached mortality (according to our own understanding of time).

I'm pretty sure you already know the answer to this. If a non-member came to this site and asked how God can be fully omniscient, knowing the end from the beginning, and still permit us freewill, they would be referred to Talmage's statements on it. In essence, there is no contradiction here, because God knowing someone will choose poorly doesn't mean God forcing someone to choose poorly.

The only way to escape this is by creating a multi-verse solution. For each moment and each decision, there is a new universe created that breaks off from the existing one. Suddenly, each possible decision creates two parallel universes, each having taken a different road. However, now we have God judging us not on what we do on one world, but what we do on all worlds. Each of us would have an exalted version of ourselves (or an infinite number of exalted versions), and each would have an infinite number of us going to Outer Darkness and everywhere in between. There would then be universes where God is not our God, but some other divine being would be our God. And of course, there would be universes in which God does not exist, or God fails (as he would also in his journey have somewhere merited outer darkness), and the plan of salvation fail. Not a solution that inspires faith, as all falls into chaos, and you never know which universe you will end up in (or end up in all of them).

This goes against my premise that God's time is completely separate from our time. I'll deal with this in another post since it seems like I have not yet conveyed this point properly either to you or SeminarySnoozer.

Some LDS believe that God does not know the future. He knows all that is possible to know up to this very moment. God dwells in time, similar to ours. In this way, he can, as a master chess player, make determine many possible moves in advance, yet still the pieces on the chess board have free play/movement and can move according to the moment's actual circumstances. God is able to grow, because while he can anticipate future things, such as his own expansion of kingdoms, he has yet to experience them.

Are you among the Mormons that believe this?

The Lectures on Faith state that God creates through the power of faith. Yet, the Book of Mormon tells us that knowledge is not faith. If God absolutely knows all things in the future, then how can he exercise faith? He cannot.

In LoF God's Faith is equated with Power. You can't mix that Faith with the faith that we must exercise (the kind the rest of the lectures deals with).

So, there are philosophical issues concerning God that are yet to be discovered by mankind. Currently, the prophets teach as they understand the scriptures. The Lord has not specifically revealed to them whether God continues to learn, knows every detail of the future, etc. So they teach us as best they can. Brigham Young taught that God continues to learn and publicly chastised Orson Pratt for teaching what current prophets now teach. So the concepts are pliable - we have not yet been given the final thought on whether God is in, around or outside of time, what that time means, and whether God knows all things in the future (or how well he knows them).

I agree that there's plenty of room for discussion on this topic. My particular views may not be Truth, but I am convinced that it fits within the doctrines of the Church. Hemidakota's idea that God resides in the center of the galaxy also fits within the doctrines of the Church. I wouldn't be suprised if his model turns out to be more accurate than the one I currently have, just because I am aware that there's plenty of wriggle room on this. Are you willing to acknowledge the same?

[mordorbund]

I don't think I am expressing myself well enough, I apologize for that. You started out saying that God could go back in time, or at least suggested that as a possibility as well as jumping ahead. If you are now saying God's time is also sequential then I have no argument with you. It is either sequential or He can jump around in time. What is it?

The importance of saying it that way is to support my very first comment that you reacted to which was God has one limitation and that is that He cannot realize something is done until it is actually done, whatever the time frame. In other words, He can't claim the credit for something that will be done in the future if it hasn't been realized or actualized yet, even if He can see it in the future. In other words, there is a value placed on actually completing the act.

With a timeless God though, I can see how one could say that the value of some future act (future to us) was already obtained by God, but then there would be no "bringing to pass" anything because for that type of God everything has already been brought to pass and His work would be over for Him. Do you believe in a God who's work is complete? If not, what is it that He has to complete, in your mind? .... if you say something to the effect of "letting us run the program through" then you are agreeing with me that there is some value to actually completing the project, which was my original statement.

I fear I am not communicating clearly. Let's start with this. Could you describe for me two orthogonal times? I mean the same way you would describe two orthogonal space dimensions (such as height and width)? Or in the same way you would describe "up" to flatlanders?

[rameumptom]

I'm pretty sure you already know the answer to this. If a non-member came to this site and asked how God can be fully omniscient, knowing the end from the beginning, and still permit us freewill, they would be referred to Talmage's statements on it. In essence, there is no contradiction here, because God knowing someone will choose poorly doesn't mean God forcing someone to choose poorly.This goes against my premise that God's time is completely separate from our time.

I am aware of Elder Talmage's statement. There still is a problem, though. It means that free will is still impacted by God's foreknowledge, whether he forces something or not. It means God has already determined our final outcome prior to our even being formed as spirits. So, there are still some issues that Elder Talmage's statement does not clear up.

Are you among the Mormons that believe this (re: God not having a forekowledge)?

I keep myself free of a final decision. There are also problems with the concept of God not knowing the future. For example, if God does not know the future, how would he know that Joseph Smith would lose the 116 pages of the BoM and prepare for such an event? Or if he could guess it would happen, how would he know it would be those 116? Why not 20, or 300 pages? There are some that propose a compatibilism - somewhere in between foreknowledge and the chess player. Clark Goble is probably one of the key LDS philosophy experts on this one. As for me, I keep an open mind. Somehow it works out, we just don't know exactly how just yet.

In LoF God's Faith is equated with Power. You can't mix that Faith with the faith that we must exercise (the kind the rest of the lectures deals with).I agree that there's plenty of room for discussion on this topic. My particular views may not be Truth, but I am convinced that it fits within the doctrines of the Church. Hemidakota's idea that God resides in the center of the galaxy also fits within the doctrines of the Church. I wouldn't be suprised if his model turns out to be more accurate than the one I currently have, just because I am aware that there's plenty of wriggle room on this. Are you willing to acknowledge the same?

Faith is a form of power in the LoF, yes. It is not the only power. Priesthood is also equated with power, for instance. Yet Faith, even as a power, is not knowledge. It is a moving force, based upon things yet unseen, but believed. And so, for God to have faith would mean there are still things yet unseen by him, otherwise it is not faith, but knowledge (also a power), which powers the universe.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I fear I am not communicating clearly. Let's start with this. Could you describe for me two orthogonal times? I mean the same way you would describe two orthogonal space dimensions (such as height and width)? Or in the same way you would describe "up" to flatlanders?

If I consider time linear, why would I have more than one dimension for it. Since you are setting up the question for some reason, go ahead, answer it yourself. Especially, since you refused to answer my questions.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I fear I am not communicating clearly. Let's start with this. Could you describe for me two orthogonal times? I mean the same way you would describe two orthogonal space dimensions (such as height and width)? Or in the same way you would describe "up" to flatlanders?

The only two that I could think of is that the past are events recognized that cannot be altered in fact, only in terms of recognition and memory (which is not an issue for God of course) and future events which have not yet transpired and therefore only predicted (for God this may be a perfect prediction) which would make them events that we cannot say they have occurred yet. Maybe one could say there is such a thing as present, but the moment one says it is present, it is already past. To me, those are the only two dimensions of time, past and future. The important thing though, at least I believe, those two descriptions of time differ for God, the past events are things recognized and realized and the full glory for which can be appreciated. Future events, on the other hand can only be predicted and prophesied about but even God cannot gain the glory for future events until they become passed events, by definition.

[Over43]

I heard it once said that a miracle is something we cannot explain only because we do not understand the law(s) on which it is predicated. I believe that God understands all laws, and can effect what are to us, miracles. I believe it was Elder Dallin H. Oaks that I heard explain a miracle in this way once, in a CES broadcast. He went on to say that computers and cell phones were miracles to him, because he didn't understand the laws upon which they were predicated. It made sense to me.

Fax Machines and Wonka Vision, those are miracles to me...

[Hemidakota]

The only two that I could think of is that the past are events recognized that cannot be altered in fact, only in terms of recognition and memory (which is not an issue for God of course) and future events which have not yet transpired and therefore only predicted (for God this may be a perfect prediction) which would make them events that we cannot say they have occurred yet. Maybe one could say there is such a thing as present, but the moment one says it is present, it is already past. To me, those are the only two dimensions of time, past and future. The important thing though, at least I believe, those two descriptions of time differ for God, the past events are things recognized and realized and the full glory for which can be appreciated. Future events, on the other hand can only be predicted and prophesied about but even God cannot gain the glory for future events until they become passed events, by definition.

Or…perhaps, using other earth’s statistics, past creations having the same play but with different actors playing their parts. The probability becomes known after several worlds.

[Hemidakota]

Compatibilism

New word I learned today!!!