I want to get a gun for the house..

[theoriginalavatar]

That's what it boils down to. The odds of saving a life (your or a family member's) by owning a self-defense gun versus the odds of loosing a life via accident or loosing a confrontation that you would have successfully avoided had you not been emboldened by owning the gun as a result of owning a self-defense gun. Obviously people vary on where they place the odds, you place the odds in favor of the first whereas MoE is weighting the odds in favor of the second, particularly the loosing the confrontation bit (loosing = you or a family member ending up dead).

Note, this post is not an endorsement of either weighting.

thanks dravin, and you raise a noteworthy point. but i have to say that many of the folks who are so anti-personal handgun seem to assume (or at least their posts indicate that they assume) that we gun owners are haphazard in our gun safety. i have two small children. one is 6 and the other is 8. they are curious creatures, and guns are among their curiosities. i am VERY careful with my guns. they are locked in a safe that has fingerprint identification (the expensive kind) and can only be accessed by me. i check and double check (and triple check) that they are secure every time i leave the house for any reason.

i know that you know this, but the odds of needing to defend myself and my family, at least to me, are well worth the risk of me accidentaly leaving my guns laying on the desk fully loaded without any safety waiting for my children to pick them up and shoot each other.

[gabelpa]

not only that (and i am sure that more than a few of you have tuned me out completely by now lol), but getting rid of the guns does not seem to have the effect that some feel that it will.

sean hannity points out that, since the 1997 firearms act in great britain (in which nearly all handguns were prohibited in the hopes that violent crimes from said handguns would decrease significantly), death and injury by handguns has gone up 400% in england alone.

who are we punishing with such laws?

I've heard that 400% number bandied about, and it is not accurate. There are several factors at play, including a change in the way firearms crime was recorded following the 1997 handgun ban. The calculated actual increase in the first year was not 400%, but rather 110% in the first year. In 1999 there were 42 handgun deaths in England/wales, which dropped to 27 in 2005, but has since gone back up to 39, then down to 29. That is 1 in every 1,892,857 people were killed by a handgun in England/Wales. Most handgun deaths make national news here. We've had a few shootings, recently Raoul Moat went on a rampage with a shotgun, killing several people and wounding many others, until he was killed in a standoff. These incidents are rare, but a handgun was not used. I don't have the full battery of statistics to hand, but I don't think that handgun homicides are a major killer. Most thugs do resort to knives. Although we had a murder close to us recently, it was a screwdriver. We even have a ban on carrying knives here, hence the screwdriver. If a thug wants a weapon, he will get a weapon, be it a gun, a box cutter or a brick.

You don't point a gun at something you're not willing to pull the trigger on, and you don't pull the trigger on something you're not willing to destroy. If you wander around your house maintaining your sight picture, you are likely to drop the hammer on a family member. Will you be able to recognize your target as a threat, get a sight picture, and hit center mass in low light? If you are going to get a gun for home defence, make darn well sure you know how to use that darned thing.

[theoriginalavatar]

I've heard that 400% number bandied about, and it is not accurate. There are several factors at play, including a change in the way firearms crime was recorded following the 1997 handgun ban. The calculated actual increase in the first year was not 400%, but rather 110% in the first year. In 1999 there were 42 handgun deaths in England/wales, which dropped to 27 in 2005, but has since gone back up to 39, then down to 29. That is 1 in every 1,892,857 people were killed by a handgun in England/Wales. Most handgun deaths make national news here. We've had a few shootings, recently Raoul Moat went on a rampage with a shotgun, killing several people and wounding many others, until he was killed in a standoff. These incidents are rare, but a handgun was not used. I don't have the full battery of statistics to hand, but I don't think that handgun homicides are a major killer. Most thugs do resort to knives. Although we had a murder close to us recently, it was a screwdriver. We even have a ban on carrying knives here, hence the screwdriver. If a thug wants a weapon, he will get a weapon, be it a gun, a box cutter or a brick.

touche, touche. i am not a statistician, and i did not do my homework, but my point was that outlawing things (anything) such as handguns does not preclude their use by lawless citizens. just look at how prohibition (of alcohol) played out in the us.

If you are going to get a gun for home defence, make darn well sure you know how to use that darned thing.

good point, and i agree. i have studied handguns, rifles, and their mechanics since i was 11 (i am now 34), and i feel that i have a reasonable handle on how to use them. anyone new to this is well advised to learn well before ever acquiring one.

[Guest]

Why isn't it for sport and are you commenting on the caliber or the implication that it's a handgun*?

*This is a .45 caliber but something tells me this isn't what you have in mind: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895.asp

Edit: We may be having different definitions of sport. I consider target shooting (even non-competitive) to fall under 'sport' even though I'm more likely to call it recreational. If you by sport you mean hunting a good .357 or .44 Mag (amongst other rounds) can be used to hunt, and while I imagine it'd be hard to get close enough to something smaller like a .17 HMR or a .22 Mag could be used against rabbits and the like. Though I will concede a long gun would probably be the more efficient choice.

I'm commenting on my husband. Basketball is his sport. Clay shooting is Emergency Preparedness practice. Deer hunting for the same thing - he's pretty good with a bow-and-arrow as well. A handgun is to blow people up. I know him well enough to know the difference.

[gabelpa]

Oh, for some real fun,specific black powder pistols are exempt from the handgun ban. Although I dread what would happen should I be caught with one of thse UK Gunroom: Pietta Sheriff's Model .44 Black Powder Pistol (for sale) or one of these UK Gunroom: Ruger Old Army .44 Black Powder Pistol (for sale) or one of these UK Gunroom: Uberti 1861 Navy .36 Black Powder Pistol (for sale) on my person.

There haven't been any murders with these, but they are a legal firearm. Load them up with old fashioned smokey powder and you can use the cloud of smoke to escape.

BTW, that marlin linked, looks cool. I had a Ruger No. 1 chambered for .45-70, and loaded my own rounds with a slow burning powder. Lower muzzle velocities, but didn't tear my shoulder off.

[FunkyTown]

touche, touche. i am not a statistician, and i did not do my homework, but my point was that outlawing things (anything) such as handguns does not preclude their use by lawless citizens. just look at how prohibition (of alcohol) played out in the us.

I wish there was a prohibition against Coca-Cola. I want 1920s slang to make a return.

I want to take my dame to the hooch den, check out her gams and let 'er know she's the berries and never mind the Mrs. Grundy's who disagree!

[Tarnished]

Funky, for a cute 1920's based webcomic check out Lackadaisy you will get a nice fill of 1920's slang.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I wouldn't feel well, if I knew that my neighbor had a gun. So I would feel to own a gun, too. And how many people have their temper and emotions always under control? Certainly not everyone ...

I do not feel well that my some of neighbors are driving around 2,500 pound weapons on the street called "automobiles." Cars are far more deadly in my opinion.

[Faded]

I'm commenting on my husband. Basketball is his sport. Clay shooting is Emergency Preparedness practice. Deer hunting for the same thing - he's pretty good with a bow-and-arrow as well. A handgun is to blow people up. I know him well enough to know the difference.

Blow people up? No, no, no, you've got the wrong tool for the job! A hand gun will only put a rather unimpressive hole in a person. If you want to actually blow people up you want these kinds of things:

[Faded]

I wish there was a prohibition against Coca-Cola. I want 1920s slang to make a return.

Your combined wish is granted. A 1920's Coca-Cola was basically cocaine + a massive dose of caffeine + carbonated water. If they were to bring back the 1920's formula, it would be outlawed pretty much instantly.

[Melissa569]

I think it depends weather a couple has kids. Don't get me wrong, because I'm all for having a gun and I myself have a one. I like how secure I feel with it. But then again, there are no children in my house, so.... If there were, I'm not really sure what I would do.

I think people with children (particularly mothers) avoid getting a gun, because in their case, it can either be very dangerous, or totally useless.

If you keep it under your bed or pillow, or anywhere that is quickly and easily reachable-- yes, it can be a huge help in protecting yourself or your family if an intruder happens upon you. This is the case in my house.

But in such an easy-access location, it is a danger in a home with children, who will be curious about it and want to play with it.

And then if you keep it locked up in a case in the top of a closet, or under the bed.... Well, its not going to be much help in a sudden emergency, is it? First you have to find the key and fiddle with that (or the combination), unlock the box, then get the gun out.... By then, anyone who has invaded your home has either prevented you from getting your gun by poitning THEIR weapon at you, or has already hurt someone.

You have to keep the box locked with the key hidden, because otherwise the kids can get into it. That's what makes it so useless in emergencies.

I think its really tricky to keep it esily reachable, and family friendly. My only suggestion would be, if you have kids, all of you shoudl go out to target practice with the gun, and everyone shoudl learn how to properly use it, and get planty of practice. This way, it will satisfy any curiosity the kids may have, and show them how/why its so dangerous, while greatly reducing any chance that they will seek it out to "play" with.

[gabelpa]

We had two handgun safes in my house. One is a combination that my dad could open by muscle memory as long as the dial was in the 0 position at start. The second was bolted to my parent's waterbed and needed two of the round keys to get in to. I have seen a handgun lock that had one key for each finger, and the combination consisted of pressing a sequence of keys. Can be done in the dark, quickly and quietly. If my dad didn't keep a loaded short barrel Mossberg shotgun hanging from a hook, he would have picked this safe up. Me and my sis were both older teenagers when he started doing this, so it was as safe as a loaded shotgun on a hook could be.

Thankfully he put it back in the safe when my sis divorced her drug dealing gang member husband.

[ADoyle90815]

One thing I remember was that my dad used to have a Winchester hunting rifle that was never loaded, and just stored in a closet. Eventually, my mom convinced my dad to get rid of it by selling it to some gun store. That gun was from when my dad and his brothers lived at the edge of town before the rest of the neighborhood my grandma still lives in was built up. My mom wasn't raised around guns, so she was afraid of an accident even though there was no ammunition stored in the house.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I think its really tricky to keep it easily reachable, and family friendly. My only suggestion would be, if you have kids, all of you should go out to target practice with the gun, and everyone should learn how to properly use it, and get planty of practice. This way, it will satisfy any curiosity the kids may have, and show them how/why its so dangerous, while greatly reducing any chance that they will seek it out to "play" with.

I used to go out with my dad when he shot his .30 caliber rifle and .45 caliber handgun. I was scared of them. I never wanted to play with them because I knew what could happen if I did.