Baptism, blessings, etc.

[JThimm88]

I've never really thought about it until now, but I'm wondering why it is that we're not able to video tape or take photos of baptisms, confirmations, baby blessings, and so forth?

I guess when thinking about baptisms, considering we do proxy baptisms in the temple and because everything we do in the temple is considered sacred, it might make sense as to why we don't record our own baptisms on film, but I'm wondering what the reasoning from the Church is?

I've noticed other churches (well, in my experience, my Pentecostal friend's baptism) was by immersion, somewhat similar to our baptisms, and pictures were taken for her own keepsake.

Any answers on this?

[MarginOfError]

As a general rule, we don't video tape sacred ordinances. They aren't intended to be stored for exhibition.

[jayanna]

perhaps the Holy Spirit is the most important part, and He cannot be photographed.

Although I would suggest that our baptisms are just as important as those done for the dead.

I am in agreement with MOE, too sacred to be passed around.

The church does use pictures of baptisms, confirmations, and blessings but they are used for instructional purposes.

[JThimm88]

perhaps the Holy Spirit is the most important part, and He cannot be photographed.

Love it! Never thought of it that way. Thanks!

[Just_A_Guy]

FWIW (confession time, and I hope I don't send MOE into conniptions with this)--

My wife audio-taped the blessings of my youngest two daughters, strictly so that she could transcribe them later (once that was done, we destroyed the actual recording).

[MarginOfError]

FWIW (confession time, and I hope I don't send MOE into conniptions with this)--

My wife audio-taped the blessings of my youngest two daughters, strictly so that she could transcribe them later (once that was done, we destroyed the actual recording).

Just to defend my reputation:

Shh...I did the same thing

[MarginOfError]

I guess I should clarify, actually. The only real issue against audio recording the naming and blessing of a child is that it typically happens in Sacrament meeting, where we are discouraged of making recordings of any kind. If it were to happen in any other arena, there would be no issue with recording it for transcription. Such is allowed for father's blessings and other blessings of comfort and counsel.

In general, audio recordings of blessings are fine. Some exceptions are that we are asked not to make our own audio recordings of patriarchal blessings, nor of blessings where we are set apart to a calling, including to full-time missionary service.

[tstakland]

I guess I should clarify, actually. The only real issue against audio recording the naming and blessing of a child is that it typically happens in Sacrament meeting, where we are discouraged of making recordings of any kind. If it were to happen in any other arena, there would be no issue with recording it for transcription. Such is allowed for father's blessings and other blessings of comfort and counsel.

In general, audio recordings of blessings are fine. Some exceptions are that we are asked not to make our own audio recordings of patriarchal blessings, nor of blessings where we are set apart to a calling, including to full-time missionary service.

MarginOfError: I think you are spot on. I can't be certain, however. To date I have never seen anything official in writing stating that blessings are not to be recorded. I have even heard the exact opposite taught by Elder Maxwell (he said father's blessings should be recorded).

The issue came up in Elder's Quorum, and while I prefer to avoid the LDS tendency to look beyond the mark, I felt that it's wrong to teach that blessings shouldn't be recorded or even written down (there were some who were suggesting this as doctrine) when such practices are an essential component to receiving revelation.

Do you have any references that would disperse the myth that blessings in general shouldn't be recorded? As it stands now, there is simply no statements for or against the policy, and thus the myth continues...

Thanks in advance,

Tim

[MarginOfError]

MarginOfError: I think you are spot on. I can't be certain, however. To date I have never seen anything official in writing stating that blessings are not to be recorded. I have even heard the exact opposite taught by Elder Maxwell (he said father's blessings should be recorded).

The issue came up in Elder's Quorum, and while I prefer to avoid the LDS tendency to look beyond the mark, I felt that it's wrong to teach that blessings shouldn't be recorded or even written down (there were some who were suggesting this as doctrine) when such practices are an essential component to receiving revelation.

Do you have any references that would disperse the myth that blessings in general shouldn't be recorded? As it stands now, there is simply no statements for or against the policy, and thus the myth continues...

Thanks in advance,

Tim

Handbook 1, 16.1.5: "Patriarchal blessings are recorded and transcribed. The exact wording of other ordinances and blessings is not recorded in writing or by recording device. However, a family may record father’s blessings."

[tstakland]

Ah, thank you. So I was wrong.

[tstakland]

Another thought - could this citation conflict with your opinion that the main objection to recording baby blessings is that it is in sacrament meeting? This quotations seems to imply that the blessing shouldn't be recorded. Would you agree?

Edited March 14, 2011 by tstakland

[pam]

Though I suppose one might be able to argue that a baby blessing and a father's blessing could be related in that it is usually (not always) the father giving the baby blessing.

[MarginOfError]

Another thought - could this citation conflict with your opinion that the main objection to recording baby blessings is that it is in sacrament meeting? This quotations seems to imply that the blessing shouldn't be recorded. Would you agree?

Though I suppose one might be able to argue that a baby blessing and a father's blessing could be related in that it is usually (not always) the father giving the baby blessing.

Actually, upon further reflection, I'm inclined to think that my original opinion is wrong. But I would base this on the form of the blessing, as the naming and blessing is (or at least should be) directed toward Heavenly Father, while a father's blessing is directed toward the recipient. At that level, they don't appear to fall into the same category of ordinance, and so recording it probably isn't appropriate.

Now, whether or not I care is another issue.

[MarginOfError]

Ah, thank you. So I was wrong.

You weren't wrong so far as you were talking about father's blessings. If you were talking about other ordinances, then technically you would have been wrong.

[pam]

Actually, upon further reflection, I'm inclined to think that my original opinion is wrong. But I would base this on the form of the blessing, as the naming and blessing is (or at least should be) directed toward Heavenly Father, while a father's blessing is directed toward the recipient. At that level, they don't appear to fall into the same category of ordinance, and so recording it probably isn't appropriate.

Now, whether or not I care is another issue.

Actually MOE I really was in agreement with what you just said. I just know how people are and would want to debate this. So basically, if the prayer or blessing is directed to Heavenly Father or with the exception of say patriarchal blessing or a setting apart, it should not be recorded. That's the way I'm understanding it anyway.

[tstakland]

Yes, I can see that.

The challenge of maintaining the identity and integrity of a worldwide religion unfortunately merits such painstaking regulation... it's a concession, but probably necessary.

[MarginOfError]

Actually MOE I really was in agreement with what you just said. I just know how people are and would want to debate this. So basically, if the prayer or blessing is directed to Heavenly Father or with the exception of say patriarchal blessing or a setting apart, it should not be recorded. That's the way I'm understanding it anyway.

No, Pam. You weren't in agreement with me. If we were ever to agree the world would come crashing down Big Bang style.

[tstakland]

She was disagreeing with the fact that she wasn't agreeing with you, so the act of disagreeing meant she was agreeing... :)

[MarginOfError]

Oh good, the world is still safe.

[classylady]

Handbook 1, 16.1.5: "Patriarchal blessings are recorded and transcribed. The exact wording of other ordinances and blessings is not recorded in writing or by recording device. However, a family may record father’s blessings."

I'm wondering that when using the term "recorded" here for other ordinances simply means the church does not keep an official copy--"record" of the blessing. I don't particularly read this to say we can't record (tape) the blessing for our own purposes.

[slamjet]

No, Pam. You weren't in agreement with me. If we were ever to agree the world would come crashing down Big Bang style.

I felt a tremor in the force...

Or was it last night's burrito

[MarginOfError]

I'm wondering that when using the term "recorded" here for other ordinances simply means the church does not keep an official copy--"record" of the blessing. I don't particularly read this to say we can't record (tape) the blessing for our own purposes.

To add further clarification, the section title to 16.1.5 is "Recording the Words of Ordinances and Blessings"

[tstakland]

Insomuch as the LDS Church is an organization, to maintain its integrity it must manage itself as an organization. This means establishing and maintaining protocol. The church places consistency as a high priority. Unlike McDonalds, where in India you can't buy a cheeseburger because of the culture, the church usually tries to keep protocol and doctrine consistent across cultures, lands and languages. Thus we end up with these protocols that are regarded as doctrine but whose purpose is to merely maintain consistency and avoid organizational drifts.

There is of course no spiritual danger in recording any blessing or ordinance. When the church creates a logistical or operational policy (e.g. no recording blessings), it does so to maintain its ability to meet its purpose on a worldwide level. Many such policies are concessions that must be made to conform to an imperfect world, such as was the abolition of polygamy (at least these were the reasons given over the pulpit).

I think the important thing is to remember that while the church is directed by the Lord, it is not an intermediary for us with the Lord. It is a resource we have to draw closer to the Lord. If I feel inspired to record or write down a blessing (which practices are in harmony with the principles of revelation), I'll do so. I hope these opinions are helpful and provide some insight to the other participants of this thread.

[classylady]

To add further clarification, the section title to 16.1.5 is "Recording the Words of Ordinances and Blessings"

MarginOfError, I'm still a little confused by the word usage of "Recording". I understand that the Church does not transcribe, commit to writing, or tape certain blessings and ordinations for an official "record". But to me that is different from a family member in an unofficial capacity wanting a copy (record) for their personal/family history. I might possibly want a "record" of the blessing written down in my history. Whether if I get it by short hand, taping (recording), or simply by memory, and then writing it out, I don't see any problem. To me that is "recording" the blessing, unofficially. Anyone else see my problem with the word usage of "recording", and how it has different meanings?

[beefche]

Handbook 1, 16.1.5: "Patriarchal blessings are recorded and transcribed. The exact wording of other ordinances and blessings is not recorded in writing or by recording device. However, a family may record father’s blessings."

classylady, I'm confused by your confusion. I think it is clear that anything done as an ordinance is not recorded in writing or by a recording device. The church also states "other blessings" are not to be recorded. Since most baby blessings are done at the church during sacrament meeting, I believe it is reasonable to conclude that baby blessings done at church means no record is to be done or kept.

Are you confused on what is recorded for a father's blessing?